Group B - R3 - Iran 0-1 USA - Tuesday 29th November, 2022

[Stan]

Kick-off 19.00 (GMT)

       VS      

Venue - Al Thumama Stadium, Doha

- Iran can draw and hope Wales don't win by 4+ goals to qualify
- USA have to win to qualify, regardless of other results

[Dr. Gonzo]

US’s strongest position seems to be at midfield, which is where I think Iran’s at its weakest. I think the 442 that started vs Wales should start again, fitness permitting.

[Gunnersaurus]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

US’s strongest position seems to be at midfield, which is where I think Iran’s at its weakest. I think the 442 that started vs Wales should start again, fitness permitting.

Its crazy thay if Iran and USA draw England can loose 3.0 and still top the group.

[Dr. Gonzo]

38 minutes ago, Gunnersaurus said:

Its crazy thay if Iran and USA draw England can loose 3.0 and still top the group.

It’s crazy that theoretically Iran can win this group despite losing 6-2 in the first match.

[Gunnersaurus]

27 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It’s crazy that theoretically Iran can win this group despite losing 6-2 in the first match.

I worked it out that England could loose 6.0. And if Iran and USA draw it would have to be at least a 3 all or England would go through because Iran would have to score more goals than England. I probably need to get out more I am fairly confident of getting a victory against Wales because England don't really have any pressure to win to get through so they might as well go for it. I thought we would probably drop points in the group because its England and we always do. Just wasn't sure where 

[Waylander]

I think Iran will beat the USA.

USA struggle to score and Iran have scored two very good goals. 

[Azeem]

Iran will go through with a draw. That culture fuck up by Klinsmann has charged them up even more lol

[Stan]

11 minutes ago, Beelzebub said:

Iran will go through with a draw. That culture fuck up by Klinsmann has charged them up even more lol

But not charged them up enough to win ?

[Mel81x+]

Isn't it beneficial to top your group so you get paired with a potential easier match in the knockout stages? I'd be going for a win nonetheless because it builds momentum and keeps you in form. 

[Reluctant Striker]

1 hour ago, Mel81x said:

Isn't it beneficial to top your group so you get paired with a potential easier match in the knockout stages? I'd be going for a win nonetheless because it builds momentum and keeps you in form. 

Usually. There's a very high probability Winners of B & Runners Up of A play to meet France in the Q-Final.

The other path likely goes to a Q-Final with winners of Argentina group or runners up from France.

I imagine the Dutch fans are the only ones studying group winner path & eyeing up a nice as it gets route to a semi final. Iran or USA? Maybe followed by Poland or Denmark? Yet the Dutch group winners path to semi final could conceivably be England & Argentina.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Mel81x said:

Isn't it beneficial to top your group so you get paired with a potential easier match in the knockout stages? I'd be going for a win nonetheless because it builds momentum and keeps you in form. 

I think it’s best to just win for momentum as well. It’s a short competition, I think keeping strong momentum for as long as possible is more important than worrying about who you’ll get matched with.

[6666]

I like the US national team and before their social media account decided to make this match political and villainise the Iranian team, I wouldn't have minded either team going through but I'm rooting for the Iranians now after the failed PR stunt from the USMNT social media account.

[Spike]

USA about to drop democracy and freedom on Iran.

[Spike]

1 hour ago, 6666 said:

I like the US national team and before their social media account decided to make this match political and villainise the Iranian team, I wouldn't have minded either team going through but I'm rooting for the Iranians now after the failed PR stunt from the USMNT social media account.

What did they post ?

[elchinero]

Iran's a pretty sensitive bunch ...

[6666]

1 hour ago, Spike said:

What did they post ?

The table with Iran's flag not having the Iranian government's symbol in the middle.

A stance against the anti-Iran regime is of course fair but politicising the game paints the US team as the heroes and the Iran team as the villains. Have to know who or what you're using to make a point and using the game is unfair on both sets of players. Of course the people running the social media account looking for praise on social media don't have to deal with the fallout.

[Dr. Gonzo]

As an Iranian, I liked what the USMNT did with the flag and am sad they had to back down and delete the post

[Dr. Gonzo]

22 minutes ago, 6666 said:

The table with Iran's flag not having the Iranian government's symbol in the middle.

A stance against the anti-Iran regime is of course fair but politicising the game paints the US team as the heroes and the Iran team as the villains. Have to know who or what you're using to make a point and using the game is unfair on both sets of players. Of course the people running the social media account looking for praise on social media don't have to deal with the fallout.

It actually separates the team from the regime, differentiating Iran from the Islamic Republic. Showing solidarity with the players who’d made public statements of support with the human rights movement in Iran.

Your take is basically what the pro-regime troll bots are spewing.

And the irony of people who burn the US flag for basically any chance they get on TV because they think that’s good propaganda… complaining about defacement of a flag is funny as fuck.

[6666]

15 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It actually separates the team from the regime, differentiating Iran from the Islamic Republic. Showing solidarity with the players who’d made public statements of support with the human rights movement in Iran.

Your take is basically what the pro-regime troll bots are spewing.

And the irony of people who burn the US flag for basically any chance they get on TV because they think that’s good propaganda… complaining about defacement of a flag is funny as fuck.

The sets of players are facing each other. Pulling this stunt right before the game very much comes across as creating an "Us vs. Them" scenario regarding the game. If they did it with the Iranian players agreeing with it then that's one thing but the US team weren't even aware of it let alone the Iranian team.

As I said, people can be as against the Iranian regime as much as they want. What's an issue is when people don't stop to think who or what they're using to make a point. But we are still living in a time where people will make a point against people representing a nation in order to make a point against their government. Same reason some people are okay with banning the Russian NT and Russian clubs to make a point against Putin. Obviously not as drastic but the same vibe.

The argument of "that's what people that are pro-government are also saying" doesn't negate anything. Both sides should realistically call out a poorly thought out attempt at receiving a pat on the back through retweets.

[Spike]

36 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It actually separates the team from the regime, differentiating Iran from the Islamic Republic. Showing solidarity with the players who’d made public statements of support with the human rights movement in Iran.

Your take is basically what the pro-regime troll bots are spewing.

And the irony of people who burn the US flag for basically any chance they get on TV because they think that’s good propaganda… complaining about defacement of a flag is funny as fuck.

With what the USA has done to the middle-east and Iran in the past I don’t think they get the right to do this. I get your point of of view as anything anti-IRI as a positive but this is just another example of USA moral grandstanding in a region they need to leave alone.

[Ozzy0zz]

6 minutes ago, Spike said:

With what the USA has done to the middle-east and Iran in the past I don’t think they get the right to do this. I get your point of of view as anything anti-IRI as a positive but this is just another example of USA moral grandstanding in a region they need to leave alone.

You're forgetting to account for American exceptionalism.

 

[Spike]

@Dr. Gonzo never mind, I agree with you now.

[Dr. Gonzo]

41 minutes ago, Spike said:

With what the USA has done to the middle-east and Iran in the past I don’t think they get the right to do this. I get your point of of view as anything anti-IRI as a positive but this is just another example of USA moral grandstanding in a region they need to leave alone.

I would normally agree. But in this instance Qatar's security is working with the revolutionary guard to confiscate Iran flags that are either the pre-revolution flag or the green-white-red tricolor that are both used in protest of the government in Iran.

To me, I see this as support for the Iranians that are having their political expression suppressed in Iran and Qatar - including the players. Most Iranians I know, in and out of Iran, see it as the same.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, 6666 said:

The sets of players are facing each other. Pulling this stunt right before the game very much comes across as creating an "Us vs. Them" scenario regarding the game. If they did it with the Iranian players agreeing with it then that's one thing but the US team weren't even aware of it let alone the Iranian team.

As I said, people can be as against the Iranian regime as much as they want. What's an issue is when people don't stop to think who or what they're using to make a point. But we are still living in a time where people will make a point against people representing a nation in order to make a point against their government. Same reason some people are okay with banning the Russian NT and Russian clubs to make a point against Putin. Obviously not as drastic but the same vibe.

The argument of "that's what people that are pro-government are also saying" doesn't negate anything. Both sides should realistically call out a poorly thought out attempt at receiving a pat on the back through retweets.

That's literally how sportswashing works  - for the people in Iran "keeping politics out of sport" has absolutely 0 value to them. Getting people, even "the Great Satan," to make shows of support means everything to them.

Right now the only value for Iranians in Iran of being in this world cup right now is it's a platform to get the rest of the world talking about their human rights movement. For people like me who aren't risking their lives battling against thugs with guns who happen to be Iranian, I'm afforded the luxury of getting to care about the actual result - rather than desperately hoping some form of protest leads some people in the west to make a google search that informs them better.

The government just wants people to think about the sporting issues and not about anything else. "Keep politics out of sport" ultimately means "don't question what we are doing." These players tried to make a statement and subsequently had their families threatened & two members who didn't make the squad were arrested only to be released if they sang their anthem.

That's what "keeping politics out of football with this Iran" team in this moment in Iran's history means standing with, which it's no surprise that's what Qatar is standing with in doing their part to stop their fascist zealot friends getting protested in the stands.

[6666]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

That's literally how sportswashing works  - for the people in Iran "keeping politics out of sport" has absolutely 0 value to them. Getting people, even "the Great Satan," to make shows of support means everything to them.

Right now the only value for Iranians in Iran of being in this world cup right now is it's a platform to get the rest of the world talking about their human rights movement. For people like me who aren't risking their lives battling against thugs with guns who happen to be Iranian, I'm afforded the luxury of getting to care about the actual result - rather than desperately hoping some form of protest leads some people in the west to make a google search that informs them better.

The government just wants people to think about the sporting issues and not about anything else. "Keep politics out of sport" ultimately means "don't question what we are doing." These players tried to make a statement and subsequently had their families threatened & two members who didn't make the squad were arrested only to be released if they sang their anthem.

That's what "keeping politics out of football with this Iran" team in this moment in Iran's history means standing with, which it's no surprise that's what Qatar is standing with in doing their part to stop their fascist zealot friends getting protested in the stands.

As explained in a different topic, that's a stupid conclusion to arrive at in my opinion.

People are capable and are talking about the protests in Iran irrespective of whatever's happening at the World Cup. "Sports washing" as a concept, even if governments desperately believe in it, is nothing as it doesn't work.

I'm also not against politics in football if the footballers are putting something out there and they're not unfairly demonising others. In this situation, the players had nothing to do with it, they were just blindsided by the social media team doing something. And they were unfairly, even if inadvertently, painting the Iran team as the villains in the context of the match which is "USA v. Iran".