State of Emergency in Charlottesville

[Spike]

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Trump has said he only condemned Nazis because of pressure from the "truly bad media." So I'm not sure he's actually condemned anything, other than those people for being run over. By Nazis.

Fucks sake, where did the fool say that?

[Dr. Gonzo]

26 minutes ago, Spike said:

Fucks sake, where did the fool say that?

On his Twitler feed, which is probably the best source for pure unfiltered Trump thoughts on any issue. He said he made additional comments about Charlottesville - but because CNN questioned him (about something unrelated - they were defending themselves from the fake news slur) the "truly bad media" is unsatisfied. Then there's a #FakeNews lol.

It's a truly fucking weird tweet - because it sort of glosses over Charlottesville, and his condemnation of white supremacists, but then goes on to attack the media... seemingly over it's Charlottesville coverage... but over comments that were unrelated to Charlottesville. The CNN questions/comments in question relate to CNN's white house press corps guy defending CNN from being pegged as fake news (in the press conference, Trump directly said to him "you are fake news" - he's done it a few times to the same reporter now), and the reporter said something along the lines of "Haven't you promoted fake news of your own?" ... to which Trump responded by walking away and ending the press conference.

The fucker didn't make the obvious statement hours after the neo-Nazi rally and subsequent violence, received pressure from the media, tried to appease them... and now that he's done what they asked and they still don't like him, he takes it as a personal slight on himself. He's a disgraceful manchild... what kind of Western leader fumbles the easy point scoring of condemning fucking Nazis so badly. He's either a white supremacist or a even more stupid than I could have ever imagined.

[Spike]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

On his Twitler feed, which is probably the best source for pure unfiltered Trump thoughts on any issue. He said he made additional comments about Charlottesville - but because CNN questioned him (about something unrelated - they were defending themselves from the fake news slur) the "truly bad media" is unsatisfied. Then there's a #FakeNews lol.

It's a truly fucking weird tweet - because it sort of glosses over Charlottesville, and his condemnation of white supremacists, but then goes on to attack the media... seemingly over it's Charlottesville coverage... but over comments that were unrelated to Charlottesville. The CNN questions/comments in question relate to CNN's white house press corps guy defending CNN from being pegged as fake news (in the press conference, Trump directly said to him "you are fake news" - he's done it a few times to the same reporter now), and the reporter said something along the lines of "Haven't you promoted fake news of your own?" ... to which Trump responded by walking away and ending the press conference.

The fucker didn't make the obvious statement hours after the neo-Nazi rally and subsequent violence, received pressure from the media, tried to appease them... and now that he's done what they asked and they still don't like him, he takes it as a personal slight on himself. He's a disgraceful manchild... what kind of Western leader fumbles the easy point scoring of condemning fucking Nazis so badly. He's either a white supremacist or a even more stupid than I could have ever imagined.

Do you ever get the feeling he knows what he is doing and just likes fucking around with people to stroke his ego? What a loon.

[Spike]

There is no way he is that ignorant to not realise he should condemn Nazism. I refuse to believe that he or his dozens of staff members, PAs, advisors, handlers, etc. didn't think to condemn Nazism. It has to have been willful ignorance, probably so he could drum up sentiment towards himself of the media bullying him.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Spike said:

Do you ever get the feeling he knows what he is doing and just likes fucking around with people to stroke his ego? What a loon.

I used to think he was just a massive troll, who was just fucking around with people. Now I think he's just incredibly lacking in any kind of self-awareness at all, but with a huge ego that is very fragile so he does everything he can to protect it. But he also retweeted someone else calling him a fascist today lol - so I think he might just be ignorant and unhinged.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Spike said:

There is no way he is that ignorant to not realise he should condemn Nazism. I refuse to believe that he or his dozens of staff members, PAs, advisors, handlers, etc. didn't think to condemn Nazism. It has to have been willful ignorance, probably so he could drum up sentiment towards himself of the media bullying him.

There's this - which confirms that his dad was arrested at a KKK "near-riot" (whatever that is), but it doesn't confirm that he's was KKK member or supporter (source: https://www.snopes.com/donald-trump-father-kkk-1927/). But Donny & his daddy were also sued in the 70s for housing discrimination against black people... 

He might have been raised to be an actual white supremacist... I think Bannon (if he's not an actual white supremacist, he's okay with allying himself with white supremacists to further his political goals - which seems like a very minor distinction), Gorka (especially Gorka, who wore Nazi medals to Trump's inauguration), and Miller (who's Jewish, weirdly enough, but uses white nationalist rhetoric frequently) are all white supremacists. But he's also got people in his circle that are most definitely not Nazis or sympathetic to Nazi ideals.

I have no idea if he's a white supremacist or a Nazi. Speculating isn't really helpful either. We know his inner circle's got a mix of white supremacists and non-white supremacists. I think it's clear he's not afraid of looking aligned with their views in order for their political support though. I personally feel like that's just as bad, tbh. We don't want Nazis in Western politics to be the new normal... especially not even a century after we smashed the fascists.

[El Profesor]

13 hours ago, Panflute said:

Some idiot in The Observer already tried to pin this on the Russians. 

The fact Richard Spencer is married to a russian woman is not enough proof that the russians are involved in it, in my opinion. They probably love to see all that mess, and the american far-right sees Putin as a great leader, but it´s hard to believe the russians financed it.

Putin loves his spies games and definitely wanted to hurt Hillary´s reputation to weaken her position if she was elected, which everyone at the time thought would be the case, but some people really go overboard putting everything that goes wrong on Russia.   

[Panflute]

Trump as a white supremacist lmao. He's a Rockefeller liberal who happens to be slightly tougher on immigration than what contemporary US politics are used to.

I can't imagine how much drugs people have to take before they can convince themselves leaders like Trump and Putin are nazis. 

[Panflute]

10 minutes ago, El_Loco said:

Putin loves his spies games and definitely wanted to hurt Hillary´s reputation to weaken her position if she was elected, which everyone at the time thought would be the case, but some people really go overboard putting everything that goes wrong on Russia.   

Which is what all major countries do at all times. America more than anyone. Let's not forget they were caught with their hand in the cookie jar when they were spying on their vassals allies in the EU. The amount of hypocrisy that radiates from America accusing other countries of meddling with their affairs is more likely to cause nuclear winter than one of Uncle Kim's nukes.

[El Profesor]

6 minutes ago, Panflute said:

Trump as a white supremacist lmao. He's a Rockefeller liberal who happens to be slightly tougher on immigration than what contemporary US politics are used to.

I can't imagine how much drugs people have to take before they can convince themselves leaders like Trump and Putin are nazis. 

I agree. I don´t think he´s a white supremacist. He navigated very well in the world of celebrities and billionaires until recently, so I really doubt he thinks differently from most of the people from that milieu, otherwise he´d have stood out long ago.

Trump is an unpolished version of Bill Clinton, in my opinion. And that explains why Ivanka and Chelsea have basically the same world view.

 

1 minute ago, Panflute said:

Which is what all major countries do at all times. America more than anyone. Let's not forget they were caught with their hand in the cookie jar when they were spying on their vassals allies in the EU. The amount of hypocrisy that radiates from America accusing other countries of meddling with their affairs is more likely to cause nuclear winter than one of Uncle Kim's nukes.

Also agree. Many think that Kim-Jong Un is insane for pursuing the development of nuclear weapons, but in my opinion it makes perfect political sense. He saw what happened to Gaddafi and concluded that noone would dare to tople his regime had Lybia had nuclear weapons. Basically, a nuclear arsenal will guarantee he will only have to deal with internal threats to this regime. That´s another cost of the western interventions in Middle East and North Africa. 

[Honey Honey]

Trump and his supporters/sympathisers/apologists often walk around with their foot in their mouth thinking it's a lollipop.

[El Profesor]

1 hour ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Trump and his supporters/sympathisers/apologists often walk around with their foot in their mouth thinking it's a lollipop.

Do you think he´s a white supremacist? He seems to me the kind of person that doesn´t really have any political view other than doing what pleases him and what he believes it´ll benefit him.

Having said that, what I´m sure of is that Trump is way over his head and totally unfit, morally and intelectually, to be President.

[Panflute]

And his detractors often get pegged by their girlfriends thinking they're straight.

It's a crazy world out there.

[Harry]

Trump is being written up as the devil incarnate for this exchange.... 

REPORTER: You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides?

TRUMP: Well I do think there’s blame. Yes, I think there is blame on both sides. You look at both sides. I think there is blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it. And you don’t have doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say.

REPORTER: The neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest —

TRUMP: Excuse me. They didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis. And you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides.

You had people in that group — excuse me, excuse me — I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

[cross talk]

TRUMP: George Washington as a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down — excuse me — are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him. Good.

 

Are we going to take down the statue? Cause he was a major slave owner. Are we going to take down his statue? So you know what? It’s fine. You are changing history, you’re changing culture. You had people and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally. You had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. O.K.? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group too.

REPORTER: Who has the press treated unfairly? Sir, I’m sorry, I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly? I just didn’t understand what you were saying.

TRUMP: No, no. There were people in that rally. I looked the night before. If you look, they were people protesting very quietly the taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee. I am sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day, it looked like they had some rough, bad people, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them. But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest.

Because I don’t know if you know, they had a permit. The other group didn’t have a permit. So I only tell you this. There are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country, a horrible moment. But there are two sides to the country. Does anybody have a final question? Do you have an infrastructure question?

[Devil-Dick Willie]

Trump isn't wrong. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Sure, there was a right wing protest (a lawful one) against the destruction of statues and renaming of a park. What right did that give the militant left to piss on their parade?

[Dr. Gonzo]

14 minutes ago, Tanksie said:

Trump isn't wrong. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Sure, there was a right wing protest (a lawful one) against the destruction of statues and renaming of a park. What right did that give the militant left to piss on their parade?

The "militant left" at Charlottesville is a fantasy by neo-Nazi sympathisers. The group charging another group of people? Nazis. The group using ISIS tactics driving through a crowd of people? Again, the Nazis.

The entire "protest" was well covered as it was happening.

While I'm not going to deny that antifa had instigated shit in the past, it looks like the worst they did here was get in the way of neo-Nazis attacking black people... which is an egregious crime, I'm sure, if you're a neo-Nazi. But not in the real world.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

10 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The "militant left" at Charlottesville is a fantasy by neo-Nazi sympathisers. The group charging another group of people? Nazis. The group using ISIS tactics driving through a crowd of people? Again, the Nazis.

The entire "protest" was well covered as it was happening.

While I'm not going to deny that antifa had instigated shit in the past, it looks like the worst they did here was get in the way of neo-Nazis attacking black people... which is an egregious crime, I'm sure, if you're a neo-Nazi. But not in the real world.

 

What were they doing there in the first place? Instigating a fight is the answer.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Tanksie said:

 

What were they doing there in the first place? Instigating a fight is the answer.

Counter-protesting against bigots? Which is par for the fucking course with all of these white supremacist rallies tbh. If they didn't want people getting pissed off at them for having a rally pushing an ideology that supports the systematic murder of people based off stupid reasons, they shouldn't have held a rally where people can counter protest. The US isn't Nazi Germany & there's a pretty significant part of the population that remains staunchly anti-Nazi. 

Furthermore, if I call you a knobhead and you proceed to run me over with a car and kill me, did I instigate my murder? Maybe... but I think that would be very hypersensitive. For instance, one of the counter protests was led by a local religious leader. 

This was initially a lawful exercise of the right to assembly... up until the Neo-Nazis reacted violently to counter protestors. Then the cops told them to go home. Which they didn't. It was then declared unlawful assembly once these fuckers acted violently because they were having their white supremacy questioned. When they didn't disperse as requested by the authorities, it just became a shitshow.

[Spike]

41 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Counter-protesting against bigots? Which is par for the fucking course with all of these white supremacist rallies tbh. If they didn't want people getting pissed off at them for having a rally pushing an ideology that supports the systematic murder of people based off stupid reasons, they shouldn't have held a rally where people can counter protest. The US isn't Nazi Germany & there's a pretty significant part of the population that remains staunchly anti-Nazi. 

Furthermore, if I call you a knobhead and you proceed to run me over with a car and kill me, did I instigate my murder? Maybe... but I think that would be very hypersensitive. For instance, one of the counter protests was led by a local religious leader. 

This was initially a lawful exercise of the right to assembly... up until the Neo-Nazis reacted violently to counter protestors. Then the cops told them to go home. Which they didn't. It was then declared unlawful assembly once these fuckers acted violently because they were having their white supremacy questioned. When they didn't disperse as requested by the authorities, it just became a shitshow.

I really doubt the run-over was reactionary. It was planned, I bet. Some bloke knew they;d be counter-protesters. ISIS one-oh-one.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Spike said:

I really doubt the run-over was reactionary. It was planned, I bet. Some bloke knew they;d be counter-protesters. ISIS one-oh-one.

I agree tbh, just used a topical example for that analogy.

[True Blue]

What did you really expect? Racist becomes the President by votes of the "white Americans". Basically his motto was Make America White again.

[Fairy In Boots]

I find the whole Trump must apologise such a none event. 

Far more concerning is the wholesale removal of statues from US cities out of fear of Antifa & BLM types getting pissy, it's all a bit 1984 

[The Artful Dodger]

I think it's difficult to understand the feelings these statues inspire, Britain doesn't have the legacy of slavery like the USA does. I do tend to think that tearing down a statue is a pretty pointless exercise though, why not keep them as monuments to a bitter past.

Although, if I had my way scum like Churchill would be coming right down...

[Fairy In Boots]

11 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

I think it's difficult to understand the feelings these statues inspire, Britain doesn't have the legacy of slavery like the USA does. I do tend to think that tearing down a statue is a pretty pointless exercise though, why not keep them as monuments to a bitter past.

Although, if I had my way scum like Churchill would be coming right down...

I think we'd also have 2 minutes of hate if you had your way

[The Artful Dodger]

1 minute ago, Fairy In Boots said:

I think we'd also have 2 minutes of hate if you had your way

It was a joke you complete misery.