Liverpool Discussion

[Dave]

1 minute ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I'd love to see @Dr. Gonzo try to referee a game. 

He smokes far too much to do it 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I'd love to see @Dr. Gonzo try to referee a game. 

I'd just give everyone red cards then go home

[Guest]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

I'd just give everyone red cards then go home

Its easy to criticize mate. Its a hard job. Its not just limited to England. A lot of referees give it up because of abuse from fans and teams. So it's not as if this ultra critical attitude is really achieving anything 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Its easy to criticize mate. Its a hard job. Its not just limited to England. A lot of referees give it up because of abuse from fans and teams. So it's not as if this ultra critical attitude is really achieving anything 

I'm not saying it's an easy job.

But lots of jobs are hard and they make so many mistakes even with video replays... it's fair to criticise people who make errors consistently if they're meant to be the best in their field in the country and look pretty shit at their jobs.

Anyone who routinely fucks up at their job should expect criticism, regardless of what their job is.

[Guest]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

I'm not saying it's an easy job.

But lots of jobs are hard and they make so many mistakes even with video replays... it's fair to criticise people who make errors consistently if they're meant to be the best in their field in the country and look pretty shit at their jobs.

Anyone who routinely fucks up at their job should expect criticism, regardless of what their job is.

It depends how much you would expect them to get right. Referees are going to make mistakes during the game  but they make alot of good decisions as well. You have to have a reasonable expectation of the decisions you expect to get right. And you have to base that on what is humanly possible. All sportsman make loads of mistakes even when they have their best games. A misplaced pass is a mistake.

A lot of  the referee mistakes aren't clear errors though. They are interpretations. 

[Cicero]

As in any career field, you'd still expect some sort of improvement though after mistakes are made, particularly when VAR is now being utilised in the game. 

There's hasn't been any improvement by Taylor, Dean, Friend, etc. 

[LFCMike]

We're due a big decision from Tierney and a big decision in a league game at Man City when we're challenging them for the title. The Sterling offside (13/14) and Kompany not being sent off (18/19) proved costly for us. Let's hope we get one go our way this Sunday. I won't hold my breath though.

[Dave]

53 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

We're due a big decision from Tierney and a big decision in a league game at Man City when we're challenging them for the title. The Sterling offside (13/14) and Kompany not being sent off (18/19) proved costly for us. Let's hope we get one go our way this Sunday. I won't hold my breath though.

Always the victims.

[LFCMike]

13 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

Always the victims.

Do one with that shout. Wouldn't have expected that from someone in your position on the forum.

Dickhead.

[Dave]

10 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Do one with that shout. Wouldn't have expected that from someone in your position on the forum.

Dickhead.

It was more of a reference of how Liverpool fans feel they're always the victim of big decisions despite having several VAR calls go there way, the one at Selhurst with Jota being the most fresh, but after googling why you're so angry I apologise if you took it as something more sinister.

[RandoEFC+]

24 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

Always the victims.

Just FYI this shout has connotations linked to Hillsborough because shithouses that hate Liverpool and have no standards use it as if to say "when are you lot going to stop moaning about that" which is obviously inappropriate.

Obviously you were doing nothing of the sort and it gets thrown their way in other contexts too but that's why you'll get a cranky response.

[Dave]

Just now, RandoEFC said:

Just FYI this shout has connotations linked to Hillsborough because shithouses that hate Liverpool and have no standards use it as if to say "when are you lot going to stop moaning about that" which is obviously inappropriate.

Obviously you were doing nothing of the sort and it gets thrown their way in other contexts too but that's why you'll get a cranky response.

Yeah, wasn't aware of the connotations and I apologise.

[LFCMike]

11 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

It was more of a reference of how Liverpool fans feel they're always the victim of big decisions despite having several VAR calls go there way, the one at Selhurst with Jota being the most fresh, but after googling why you're so angry I apologise if you took it as something more sinister.

Yeah I expect it from certain clubs but just about everyone comes out with it these days and it does my head in.

I shouldn't have made the 'dickhead' comment so I apologise for that.

[RandoEFC+]

 

I thought this might be appreciated here.

[LFCMadLad]

Thiago yet again MOTM tonight.

To think we only paid £20m for him?... Daylight robbery!

What a player.

[Stan]

Levels.. 

 

[LFCMike]

Remember when 'Klopp burnout' was a thing, only last year, hahaha

[Dr. Gonzo]

14 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Remember when 'Klopp burnout' was a thing, only last year, hahaha

Tbf after last year the coaching staff worked out different training schedules for players like Matip, Keita, Thiago, and Gomez... and this season, unlike other seasons, we've not seen them as injury prone as they were before. Also worked out a different training regime for our Muslim players during Ramadan, which seems to be paying off as our Muslim players have played pretty well despite probably being starving when they take to the pitch.

Smart stuff from them in all honesty.

[Danny]

23 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Remember when 'Klopp burnout' was a thing, only last year, hahaha

Do you think that has something to do with the calibre of player you have now? Not so much from last year, and that was more an issue of poor planning a wider squad than anything, but Klopp had that thrown at him from day one at Anfield. Do you think if you give Klopp those players again the injury issues that used to occur still occur? But because he's brought in not just better footballers, but much better athletes, the injuries are now reduced with the same demands put on them?

It's an issue I think about with Leeds though @Lucas might be able to say...their current manager mentioned the players had been overworked, but a lot of those players were generally Championship standard. Had Bielsa of been given more footballers who are high level athletes then would Leeds' season have been better managed with injuries? Or do you think it's difficult to improve on the athletic performance of the players at Leeds already?

This makes me think about when we got promoted last season and our DoF was slated for saying that the quality difference between midtable Prem and top of Ligue 1 is fairly minimal, but what sets the players apart is how good an athlete they are. It's one of the reason we looked to sign high level athletes in the Championship and then again in the Premier League, and why we have settled into our first season with some comfortability, because we have a team with a good range of athletic performance on top of their playing ability.

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 minutes ago, Danny said:

Do you think that has something to do with the calibre of player you have now? Not so much from last year, and that was more an issue of poor planning a wider squad than anything, but Klopp had that thrown at him from day one at Anfield. Do you think if you give Klopp those players again the injury issues that used to occur still occur? But because he's brought in not just better footballers, but much better athletes, the injuries are now reduced with the same demands put on them?

It's an issue I think about with Leeds though @Lucas might be able to say...their current manager mentioned the players had been overworked, but a lot of those players were generally Championship standard. Had Bielsa of been given more footballers who are high level athletes then would Leeds' season have been better managed with injuries? Or do you think it's difficult to improve on the athletic performance of the players at Leeds already?

This makes me think about when we got promoted last season and our DoF was slated for saying that the quality difference between midtable Prem and top of Ligue 1 is fairly minimal, but what sets the players apart is how good an athlete they are. It's one of the reason we looked to sign high level athletes in the Championship and then again in the Premier League, and why we have settled into our first season with some comfortability, because we have a team with a good range of athletic performance on top of their playing ability.

I think adjusting the way some of our more injury prone players train and recover from matches is a huge part of why we're not seeing those same players injured constantly. Just look at Matip, he's been a rock at the heart of our defense and is arguably our player of the season - he's played so many more matches for us this season than any other season with no real injury woes. Keita's another player we could never really rely on for selection.

Also last season, we had a massive injury crisis with players having to fill in at CB and without really having the same depth we had at the beginning of the season because... players kept getting injured, which meant players couldn't be rotated in and out. So some players had massive burnout because they were unable to get a rest.

Our depth this season is what... two additional players compared to last season. One's Konate and he's been slowly bedded in, mostly getting his chances in Europe or any time where we've got more than 1 match a week (so Matip can get his well deserved rests that keep him match fit) - the other's Diaz and we've just signed him fairly recently. I guess you could make the argument for Elliott - but it looked he was going to slot into our midfield 3 (and take Gini's place in the squad) - then he got his injury now he's found it harder to get back into the team.

For me, I think the biggest thing is that the training staff has taken the steps to avoid another crisis like we suffered last season once VVD was out and we were relying on Matip and Gomez - two very injury prone players - to perform week in week out, sometimes multiple matches a week.

[LFCMike]

7 hours ago, Danny said:

Do you think that has something to do with the calibre of player you have now? Not so much from last year, and that was more an issue of poor planning a wider squad than anything, but Klopp had that thrown at him from day one at Anfield. Do you think if you give Klopp those players again the injury issues that used to occur still occur? But because he's brought in not just better footballers, but much better athletes, the injuries are now reduced with the same demands put on them?

 

To be honest, Liverpool play a lot different now to how they did in say, Klopp's first full season. People who were saying 'Klopp burnout' probably don't really watch Liverpool much and assume that they just press intensely for 90 minutes which is no longer the case. They pick and choose their games/moments. 

[RandoEFC+]

It's not so much a Klopp burnout but a sheer mental burnout from winning almost every game of football for two years. There's no shortage of occasions for any team that puts together a run like that where they really have to dig deep and keep going back to the well to find a late winning goal or equaliser on a difficult day for them.

People have posted stats on here plenty of times showing just how rare it is for any team to retain a title. Even Man City haven't done it so many times in the last decade when it feels almost as if Liverpool's title win is the only time City have been stopped (I know it isn't). It's even harder to just carry on as normal when winning a title was as big of a monkey off the back as it was for Liverpool doing it for the first time in 30 years.

For that reason, last season was always on the cards for Liverpool although the dip was made a lot bigger by injuries and other circumstances. I don't think too many people would have suggested that the "Klopp way" of playing football would just get to a certain point, fall off a cliff, and then Liverpool would just be permanently below the standards set until he left. The bounce back was always going to come and as we said the other week in the City/Liverpool match thread, the depth and subs bench situation for Liverpool has changed markedly now. Even without Townsend and Rondon. 

[LFCMike]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

It's not so much a Klopp burnout but a sheer mental burnout from winning almost every game of football for two years. There's no shortage of occasions for any team that puts together a run like that where they really have to dig deep and keep going back to the well to find a late winning goal or equaliser on a difficult day for them.

People have posted stats on here plenty of times showing just how rare it is for any team to retain a title. Even Man City haven't done it so many times in the last decade when it feels almost as if Liverpool's title win is the only time City have been stopped (I know it isn't). It's even harder to just carry on as normal when winning a title was as big of a monkey off the back as it was for Liverpool doing it for the first time in 30 years.

For that reason, last season was always on the cards for Liverpool although the dip was made a lot bigger by injuries and other circumstances. I don't think too many people would have suggested that the "Klopp way" of playing football would just get to a certain point, fall off a cliff, and then Liverpool would just be permanently below the standards set until he left. The bounce back was always going to come and as we said the other week in the City/Liverpool match thread, the depth and subs bench situation for Liverpool has changed markedly now. Even without Townsend and Rondon. 

I don't disagree with any of this. I remember there being direct comparisons with his time at Dortmund on here though and last season being proof of 'Klopp burnout'. It was a silly comparison because the two situations were completely different and Klopp has evolved as a manager since.

[LFCMike]

 

[LFCMadLad]

2 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

 

Was just going to post this.

This would be a bigger signing than any footballer we could ever buy.