Liverpool Discussion

[LFCMike]

I certainly don't feel bad for a fella who gets paid 100k a week to play football really badly. 

[LFCMadLad]

4 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

I certainly don't feel bad for a fella who gets paid 100k a week to play football really badly. 

He wasn’t bad for Southampton who played deeper with more defensive discipline, in fact he was really good. 

He just doesn’t suit a gung-ho system with no protection whatsoever that leaves the CB’s totally exposed time and time again. 

VVD will find it just as hard to excel once he signs too. 

Edited October 23, 2017 by LFCMadLad

[LFCMike]

3 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

He wasn’t bad for Southampton who played deeper with more defensive discipline, in fact he was really good. 

He just doesn’t suit a gung-ho system with no protection whatsoever that leaves the CB’s totally exposed time and time again. 

VVD will find it just as hard to excel once he signs too. 

I get that the defence is exposed because there's no protection in front of them, or behind them for that matter, it doesn't excuse some of the laughable individual mistakes though. Been crying out for a good defensive midfielder since Mascherano left. Lucas had a decent spell under Dalglish before he fucked his knee and one should have been signed in the January of that season. Just seems like we've neglected it since then really. 

A new keeper, at least one centre back and a midfielder to play alongside Keita are musts before the start of next season. Ideally you'd get a couple of them in January but we all know Liverpool won't sign anyone in January.

[RandoEFC+]

The system might be a problem but all four of Tottenhams goals came from individual errors or set pieces where enough players were back defending so it runs deeper than Klopps tactics even if that is part of it in other games.

[LFCMadLad]

5 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

I get that the defence is exposed because there's no protection in front of them, or behind them for that matter, it doesn't excuse some of the laughable individual mistakes though. Been crying out for a good defensive midfielder since Mascherano left. Lucas had a decent spell under Dalglish before he fucked his knee and one should have been signed in the January of that season. Just seems like we've neglected it since then really. 

A new keeper, at least one centre back and a midfielder to play alongside Keita are musts before the start of next season. Ideally you'd get a couple of them in January but we all know Liverpool won't sign anyone in January.

It’s not just that there’s no protection in front of them. Watch our games closely! Klopp has both FB’s pushing so far up that whenever we lose the ball, the opposition have acres and acres of space to run into down the flanks which leaves the CB’s totally exposed as they try to cover both the centre and FB positions. It’s impossible and no wonder they make mistakes when constantly under so much pressure. 

Its a systematic problem that won’t be cured no matter who we sign. 

[LFCMike]

1 minute ago, RandoEFC said:

The system might be a problem but all four of Tottenhams goals came from individual errors or set pieces where enough players were back defending so it runs deeper than Klopps tactics even if that is part of it in other games.

Agree. Take the second goal. That's not the system, it should be basic defending for a Premier League centre back but the cunt completely misses the fucking ball when he had the advantage of going to attack the ball and Kane has his back to goal.

[LFCMadLad]

I’ll refer back to this discussion when we sign different CB’s but the same problems occur. 

[LFCMike]

2 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

It’s not just that there’s no protection in front of them. Watch our games closely! Klopp has both FB’s pushing so far up that whenever we lose the ball, the opposition have acres and acres of space to run into down the flanks which leaves the CB’s totally exposed as they try to cover both the centre and FB positions. It’s impossible and no wonder they make mistakes when constantly under so much pressure. 

Its a systematic problem that won’t be cured no matter who we sign. 

And a dead good defensive midfielder covers the full backs. Bin the keeper(s), Lovren and Henderson and bring in some quality in their place and the side improves ten fold. Maybe Klopp could be more pragmatic and not expose these players who aren't talented enough to play like we do but i firmly believe adding quality down that spine would solve a lot of issues for us. I have my doubts that Liverpool will spend the sort of money needed on those positions though

[LFCMadLad]

8 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Agree. Take the second goal. That's not the system, it should be basic defending for a Premier League centre back but the cunt completely misses the fucking ball when he had the advantage of going to attack the ball and Kane has his back to goal.

It is a systematic problem. Ok Kane beat Lovren to the ball and turned him. But why the fuck is Lovren having to even challenge for that ball in the fullback area when he should be tucked inside ready to cover if the fullback gets beat? 

Watch the highlights again. We always end up with our CB’s being stretched all over because the gung-ho tactics leaves them exposed to the counter. 

[Inverted]

But every top side pushes the full backs on, except perhaps for United. Liverpool can't sit back and shield their defense, so it's clear the solution lies elsewhere. 

Van Dijk is far faster and more agile in one on ones, and is comfortable winning the ball back and then distributing under pressure. Those are both areas where Lovren struggles. It seems to me that Lovren likes static battles like he had with Lukaku. 

Besides better defenders, top sides can afford to push the full backs up because they know they're not going to give the ball away, except around the opposition box. Liverpool are so bad at progressing the ball safely up the pitch, and every time Henderson, Milner or Can screw up, the defense will be caught out. 

Edited October 23, 2017 by Inverted

[LFCMadLad]

2 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

And a dead good defensive midfielder covers the full backs. Bin the keeper(s), Lovren and Henderson and bring in some quality in their place and the side improves ten fold. Maybe Klopp could be more pragmatic and not expose these players who aren't talented enough to play like we do but i firmly believe adding quality down that spine would solve a lot of issues for us. I have my doubts that Liverpool will spend the sort of money needed on those positions though

Klopp doesn’t play with a defensive midfielder! Jesus, this has been discussed a thousand times. He wants all his midfielders, even the deepest one, to join into the attacks. This is why we are so exposed when we hand over possession. 

[LFCMike]

8 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

It is a systematic problem. Ok Kane beat Lovren to the ball and turned him. But why the fuck is Lovren having to even challenge for that ball in the fullback area when he should be tucked inside ready to cover if the fullback gets beat? 

Watch the highlights again. We always end up with our CB’s being stretched all over because the gung-ho tactics leaves them exposed to the counter. 

Kane doesn't beat Lovren to the ball. Lovren completely misses the header! He heads that and let's the side regroup, they don't score. That simple.

[LFCMadLad]

3 minutes ago, Inverted said:

But every top side pushes the full backs on, except perhaps for United. Liverpool can't sit back and shield their defense, so it's clear the solution lies elsewhere. 

Van Dijk is far faster and more agile in one on ones, and is comfortable winning the ball back and then distributing under pressure. Those are both areas where Lovren struggles. It seems to me that Lovren likes static battles like he had with Lukaku. 

Besides better defenders, top sides can afford to push the full backs up because they know they're not going to give the ball away, except around the opposition box. Liverpool are so bad at progressing the ball safely up the pitch, and every time Henderson, Milner or Can screw up, the defense will be caught out. 

You’ll notice that with most top sides that when one FB pushes on, the other one sits. You can’t just have both FB’s bombing on like wingers, with no DM, leaving the CB’s exposed like we do. 

Theres a reason why our defence is worse now than before Klopp joined 2 years ago with basically the same personnel. 

[LFCMike]

4 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Klopp doesn’t play with a defensive midfielder! Jesus, this has been discussed a thousand times. He wants all his midfielders, even the deepest one, to join into the attacks. This is why we are so exposed when we hand over possession. 

Just improving on Henderson and Can would see improvement though, as well as like I say a CB and keeper

[LFCMadLad]

1 minute ago, LFCMike said:

Kane doesn't beat Lovren to the ball. Lovren completely misses the header! He heads that and let's the side regroup, they don't score. That simple.

They go for the same ball, Lovren gets turned whilst being shielded by Kane. It happens. Totally exposed down the flank again with all our mob in their half. 

[LFCMadLad]

1 minute ago, LFCMike said:

Just improving on Henderson and Can would see improvement though, as well as like I say a CB and keeper

If Klopp insists on everyone bar the CB’s bombing forward at every opportunity then the personnel doesn’t matter. We will be exposed at the back and will concede goals. 

[LFCMike]

7 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

You’ll notice that with most top sides that when one FB pushes on, the other one sits. You can’t just have both FB’s bombing on like wingers, with no DM, leaving the CB’s exposed like we do. 

Theres a reason why our defence is worse now than before Klopp joined 2 years ago with basically the same personnel. 

It's not really any worse though looking at the season he took over and last season, it's very much the same, give or take a few goals. In fact last season is the fewest we've conceded in the league since 2012.

[LFCMike]

7 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

If Klopp insists on everyone bar the CB’s bombing forward at every opportunity then the personnel doesn’t matter. We will be exposed at the back and will concede goals. 

Nope, there's plenty of better keepers, centre backs and central midfielders that would suit the side more than some of the farts we have at the moment

[LFCMadLad]

Just now, LFCMike said:

It's not really any worse though looking at the season he took over and last season, it's very much the same, give or take a few goals. In fact last season is the fewest we've conceded in the league since 2012.

And this season is the worst goals conceded after 9 games since 1964. What’s your point? 

My point is that we haven’t improved defensively under Klopp at all in fact we are getting worse the longer he’s been here. 

I luv the guy, he’s a great coach attacking wise and a great man manager but come on, defensively he looks absolutely lost. 

[HK85]

Sounds to me you're falling out of love with the German Martinez. 

All of Liverpool's problems come from above though. The stinking arrogance to think they'd just get VVD and have no backup. They've let Klopp down. 

[LFCMadLad]

3 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Nope, there's plenty of better keepers, centre backs and central midfielders that would suit the side more than some of the farts we have at the moment

Then why not buy some then? Instead Klopp said he couldn’t think of 5 better CB’s that would improve us, VVD being one of them. 

Hes said he wanted Robertson because of his ability to get forward and put in dangerous crosses. Today Robertson has said that Klopp has told him to stop putting so many crosses in? 

Klopp said when he arrived that He’d followed Matip for years and was the first player he recommended to sign. Now look?!? What’s happened to him? 

[LFCMadLad]

20 minutes ago, HK85 said:

Sounds to me you're falling out of love with the German Martinez. 

All of Liverpool's problems come from above though. The stinking arrogance to think they'd just get VVD and have no backup. They've let Klopp down. 

We didn’t sign VVD because it was leaked he’d met Klopp in Blackpool before having permission to speak to him. If it was done the right way he’d be here. 

I’m not against Klopp at all, he’s by far the best we could get right now. But I’m sick of the blind faith that some have in him and that in some people’s eyes he can do no wrong. 

His game management isn’t great either. When we are behind in a game he’ll wait till the 75th minute before taking off our best goal scorers. When we are ahead he’ll not make changes yet will have us still bombing forward looking for another goal instead of closing the game out and controlling it.

He needs to get a balance between attack and defence. Gung-ho just isn’t working. This is not Germany. 

Edited October 23, 2017 by LFCMadLad

[LFCMike]

7 hours ago, LFCMadLad said:

Then why not buy some then? Instead Klopp said he couldn’t think of 5 better CB’s that would improve us, VVD being one of them. 

Hes said he wanted Robertson because of his ability to get forward and put in dangerous crosses. Today Robertson has said that Klopp has told him to stop putting so many crosses in? 

Klopp said when he arrived that He’d followed Matip for years and was the first player he recommended to sign. Now look?!? What’s happened to him? 

That's not really how it works at Liverpool though is it. I think there's an argument that Klopp has just decided not to go down the road Rodgers did with Balotelli in such an important position. He couldn't get his man so he's not accepting the dross that's been put to him after VVD failed. He wouldn't win either way though.

I very much doubt that Klopp has put forward Robertson cos he was desperate to sign him, he's been offered him and accepted. This ties in with a couple of things I've read about what happened during the summer, as does the CB situation. Also explains why he's not getting a look in ahead of a fella who looked to be on his way out

Edited October 24, 2017 by LFCMike

[Danny]

If it was more than a systematic problem then surely the likes of Lovren would be onto pastures new at clubs that match their ability by now?

[HK85]

10 hours ago, LFCMadLad said:

We didn’t sign VVD because it was leaked he’d met Klopp in Blackpool before having permission to speak to him. If it was done the right way he’d be here. 

But to then just sit back and wait for them to cave in with VVD kicking up a fuss is ridiculous from whoever is in charge.