General La Liga Discussion

[Batard]

This just in from the spelling police. Grenada is a Caribbean island. On topic, probably the only region he'd be a successful manager in. 

[Hugh Jass]

Sporting Gijón sent tumbling into the abyss by Deportivo and Leganés

Sporting’s relegation was all their own work, a result of institutional crisis, social divide and financial limitations. Survival, then, for Depor and Leganés

There were two minutes left on the penultimate night when Fernando Amorebieta approached the bench one last time. Any news? He would have heard if there was and deep down he knew what they were going to say, but he had to ask. By the touchline at Ipurua they waited, phones and radios at the ready, and the scene was repeated in the corner of the ground where 300 fans stood. On the pitch, their minds were drawn to San Mamés or El Madrigal, clinging to a hope they couldn’t see. This time, though, there was no miracle, no one riding to their rescue. “Anything?” Nothing. Time was slipping away and so were they. Sporting Gijón were on course for a second successive victory; they were also on course for the second division, their fate finally decided 50km west and 600km south.

On this given Sunday, at least. No fate but what you make – and Sporting’s relegation was their own work. Institutional crisis, social divide and financial limitations had brought them here, the “revolution” run aground, revealed as but a brief rebellion against their reality; they had never expected to get up to primera in the first place and had enjoyed two seasons there but now they were heading down again, just when they seemed to have been given the chance to secure a little stability, their very survival no longer in doubt; the club had been saved by the team, their coach insisting: “Let’s see if we can build a bit so we don’t have to suffer again.” Instead, they went down.

If the league’s second lowest salary cap limited them, it was the culmination of long mismanagement and they could only blame themselves. More immediately, footballers who might have helped them left for free, their contracts run down, and others who did not help arrived, in great quantity and questionable quality. After two years in which their hands were tied – earnings embargoed because of debts to the taxman and players – Sporting signed 13 players. They picked up seven points from their first three games but the decline was unstoppable. Five defeats took them into the relegation zone and although two draws meant they briefly lifted their head above the water, they then started sinking. They lost seven of eight and never raised their heads again.

They changed coach: out went Abelardo, in came Rubi. They changed players: three more arrived in the winter window, including Lacina Traoré. But it didn’t help. Some suffered but others disengaged, unaffected by what was going on around them. Two wins in 19 games in 2017 brought them here. Or, more accurately, left them here. They have been in the relegation zone for 26 weeks.

Still, there was hope. As the season came to a conclusion, they thought there might be help, too. For the last two years, Sporting had done it on the final day, aided by outsiders. They came up with a late Lugo goal against Girona, and then stayed up thanks to victory over a Villarreal side whose manager Marcelino, a former Sporting player, manager and fan, had to defend himself against accusations that he had thrown the game, and thanks to Betis beating Getafe. This time, things appeared to have fallen nicely, too: their final three games would be against Las Palmas, Eibar and Betis, all teams with nothing to play for. Meanwhile, although they only needed a point, this weekend Leganés and Deportivo la Coruña had to go away to Athletic and Villarreal, two sides fighting for fifth. Sporting beat Las Palmas and against Eibar they won 1-0, the first time they had won two in a row all season – and most expected a third Sporting win to follow against Betis.

But this time was different; they didn’t get to that final day. Having taken themselves to the edge of the abyss, this time Sporting had no one to pull them back. Instead, when the penultimate weekend kicked off, everyone who had anything to play for beginning at the same time, they had two teams waiting to send them tumbling in. All Leganés and Deportivo needed was a draw and it would be definitive but for Sporting the news was initially encouraging. They had been overrun to begin with but were now 1-0 up through Burgui, who scored after half an hour. They knew it was still 0-0 between Villarreal and Deportivo but the home side were on top. And as for Leganés, they were losing at San Mamés, for whom Aritz Aduriz had scored on 15 minutes.

“Sí, se puede!” Sporting’s fans chanted. Yes, we can.

No, they couldn’t. Well, they could but it was too late now, no longer in their hands. And, after 62 minutes, Gabriel scooped a gorgeous ball over the defence to Alex Szymanowski to score. It was 9.18pm; 1-1 in Bilbao. In Villarreal, it was still 0-0. “When they told me Leganés had scored I knew it was over,” Burgui admitted.

Time raced or crawled, depending on where you were and who you were. The three cities were connected; up in Eibar, Sporting were comfortable but what mattered more was that at El Madrigal, Cedric Bakambu passed up a great chance and that Deportivo defended; what mattered most was that Leganés, too, held on, a third centre-back introduced. Athletic approached, the ball flying into the area, over and over. High at San Mamés, almost 1,000 fans screamed for the whistle to go. In Eibar, Sporting’s fans willed it not to. They pleaded for a goal. Just one. Their game was won but the game was elsewhere. Amorebieta went to the bench. Still no sign. And then, at 9.49pm, Sporting slipped away. They were down; Depor and Leganés had done it.

With 33 and 34 points respectively, survival had been cheap; for Sporting relegation may be costly – but at least not as costly as if it had happened last season when survival really might have meant survival. Not that it came as much consolation. They were crying at Ipurua. “It hurts,” Rubi said. “This tastes awful. We hoped to at least make it to the final week; we thought that we might have one last bullet then but if [Depor and Leganés] could get a point against teams as good as that we have to congratulate them. I absolve the players: we have worked day and night, they have worked, run, fought. If we lacked something, it wasn’t that.”

“We feel like fucking shit,” Xavi Torres said. “This is the other side of football and it’s hard to live it.”

The other side was down at El Madrigal where Depor’s players were dancing in a circle; they hadn’t expected to get dragged into it but they had been dangerously close. “This points leaves us where we’re supposed to be,” Pepe Mel said.

Over in Bilbao, Leganés were celebrating, too, embracing in tears, bowing down before their supporters. Their case was different to Depor’s. An unexpectedly welcome addition to the top flight, Leganés always thought they would be in a relegation fight. They hoped to be, in fact: some anticipated them being down ahead of time. Instead, they had survived with a week to spare. Back home to the south of Madrid, those who had stayed behind were dancing in the streets. “I don’t like to over-celebrate survival, getting carried away, as it makes you a small club,” the coach, Asier Garitano, insisted. “We’re very happy but civic receptions? Bus rides …”

Maybe not but this was something to celebrate. “This is what you play football for,” Garitano rightly said. Leganés had done it and at the best possible place, too – “somewhere historic, the cathedral of football,” as Szymanowski put it. Like his team-mates, the former pizza delivery boy who is now a first division player, the man who scored the goal that kept them up, was wearing a T-shirt that read “mission accomplished” on the front. It had been some mission – impossible, most said – but here they were. Here they are. Before the game, the Leganés captain, Martin Mantovani, had laid flowers at the bust of Pichichi, as tradition dictates. This was the first time Leganés had been to San Mamés, after all. It won’t be the last.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/may/15/sporting-gijon-sent-tumbling-into-abyss-by-deportivo-and-leganes

I do like Sid Lowe's columns. He is far more knowledgeable about Spanish football in general and way more balanced in his views than Graham Hunter, who seems to focus a lot more on writing about Barcelona or Real Madrid and less about the other clubs. 

He hits the nail on the head about Sporting's problems this season. There was too big an upheavel of players coming in and going out last summer, and there has far too much financial mismanagement off the pitch for too long. Defensively they were all over the place.

It's going to be very tough task for them to try and come straight back up again, but it's true that the promotion in 2015 was a pleasant surprise in the first place. 

 

 

[SirBalon]

I was really hoping we would one day soon get an Asturian derby back in Spain's first division with both Sporting Gijón and Real Oviedo.  But something tells me that for this to be a real feature at the top end. Sporting have gone through terrible moments in recent history but nothing compared to what Real Oviedo have gone through which in all honesty can be described as a miraculous turnaround on what they've achieved to date.

Sid Lowe is indeed a top English journalist on Spanish football as there is also another one, who does also focus on politics.

He writes for both The Guardian and one of Spain's leading newspapers, El País.

John Carlin (journalist) - Wikipedia

[Hugh Jass]

Thanks for the heads up. I haven't read any of John Carlin's pieces before so I'll check them out.

Yes I would love to see an Asturian derby next season. At least a silver lining of Sporting's relegation is that they will be the same division as Real Oviedo next season, for the first time since 2002-2003. Of course that's unless Real Oviedo manage to sneak into the play-off places in the Segunda División (I think they are a couple of points behind with 3 games left) and get promoted. 

Yes the fall and rise again of Real Oviedo has been an incredible, roller-coaster story. It was certainly a feel-good moment in football when the clubs's fans and notable former players like Mata, Cazorla and Michu all put their hands in the pocket to save the club from bankruptcy a few years ago. 

[carefreeluke]

Celta Vigo

Very good season for them considering they have lost Orellana, Nolito and Augusto in recent times and given the resources they have.

Looks like there's a lot of discontent at the moment towards Carlos Mourino which has escalated after the treatment of Berizzo, with Unzué being the likely favourite to replace him. Hopefully they can be innovative over the summer and strengthen the areas in their squad that need it and push on again next season but it's going to be difficult.

[SirBalon]

6 hours ago, carefreeluke said:

Celta Vigo

Very good season for them considering they have lost Orellana, Nolito and Augusto in recent times and given the resources they have.

Looks like there's a lot of discontent at the moment towards Carlos Mourino which has escalated after the treatment of Berizzo, with Unzué being the likely favourite to replace him. Hopefully they can be innovative over the summer and strengthen the areas in their squad that need it and push on again next season but it's going to be difficult.

Celta Vigo have had a tremendous season considering their size as a club and the size of their squad. As I said on a post in the Europa League semi-final clash with Man Utd, it's testimony to their coach Eduardo Berizzo.

They started thier La Liga season off like a bomb and only because of their longevity in both the Copa del Rey and Europa League (both semi-finals) did their league season suddenly start puffing smoke with an overused engine. But you can't blame them for anything and only commend such a small club challenging amongst those that dwarf them financially.

It's a shame their legend Berizzo is leaving due to issues with the board (president), but Unzué is continuation with what they've been all about for a number of years. Remember Luis Enrique got the Barcelona job off the back of his work with Celta. 

Apparently Berizzo could be going to Sevilla. 

Edited May 24, 2017 by SirBalon

[Spike]

I hope Celta keep on chugging. Nice to see clubs from small areas like Villarreal and Celta do well.

[SirBalon]

Barça president Bartomeu has meeting with RFEF president Villar in call for 'VAR'

 

Much has been made of the contreversial decisions in La Liga this season by the Spanish press with Barcelona leading the way in a call for 'VAR' next season coupled with goal-line technology which has already been used in many of Europe's top leagues this season just finished.  But it's 'VAR' which will really pave the way for fairer football for all according to  the FC Barcelona president, Josep Maria Bartomeu.  During the dinner between both clubs in the Copa del Rey Final (FC Barcelona and Deportivo Alavés) and the RFEF (Spanish football federation), the Barça president apparently made a public call in front of many for 'VAR' to be implemented next season.  The RFEF president Ángel María Villar is very much in favour of pushing 'VAR' into La Liga next season with him being one of the first to push it on the international scene when Spain played France in Paris earlier this year in a freidnly (VAR  incidently proved useful in that game).

Obviously La Liga is out of the RFEF's jurisdiction due to it being run by the LFP and the president of that organisation being Javier Tebas.  But the pressure needs to come from the top especially seeing as the Real Madrid president Florentino Pérez is hesitant to be included in the immediate call for it to be implemented from next season.

Both FC Barcelona and Atlético Madrid are leading the way calling for all La Liga clubs (including Spain's second division) to demand that t be implemented with immediate effect.

[Hugh Jass]

Setien new Betis Coach

New Real Betis Coach Quique Setien has promised the club he will maintain his attacking and possession philosophies as he was unveiled by the club.

The 58-year-old was appointed on a three-year deal by Los Verdiblancos having left Las Palmas and added Dani Ceballos, Ruben Castro and Antonio Adan will all have important roles in his team.

"Everyone knows who I am, how I see the game," Setien told his unveiling press conference.

“You all know my philosophy of playing the game with the ball, of keeping possession and to forge close relationships with my players to help in this regard.

"I don't think it is going to take much for me to convince them regarding my proposal for playing the game, we want to grow gradually in one direction.

“When I arrived at Lugo, in the third tier, they said that they couldn't play football which is something I had to address immediately.

“I make this promise to Beticos that this will be the case with our club, I guarantee attacking, possession-based football.

“I don’t want to make any promises in terms of achievements for next year but this is a big club who need to be ambitious.

“By signing a three-year deal here it gives security for the players, for me and for the club – it benefits everyone.

“I see Dani Ceballos as a ‘benchmark’ player, we can build a team around him, as for Antonio Adan and Ruben Castro – I want them both to play big roles here.

“In terms of transfers and how we will form our squad, there will be a consensus between me and the sports management

"What I must do is to thank the President, the sporting director for the fact that I have been given this wonderful opportunity.”

https://www.football-espana.net/64295/setien-promises-betis-attacking-football

Hopefully Setién's arrival can re-vitalise Betis. I've always preferred them over Sevilla, and they have one of the most passionate fanbases in Spain. 

He has had a good track record, getting Lugo promoted to the 2nd tier and keeping them there. With Las Palmas he led them to a mid-table finish last year, and they made a good start this season and were briefly threatening to challenge for Europa League qualification. But amidst his constant disputes with the board, he announced a couple of months ago that he was leaving, and their form dropped sharply with them picking up just 1 point from their last 7 games. 

To me he is one of the most intriguing coaches in Europe, and his Las Palmas team generally played fluid attacking football and were a lot of fun to watch. 

[SirBalon]

2 hours ago, Hugh Jass said:

Setien new Betis Coach

New Real Betis Coach Quique Setien has promised the club he will maintain his attacking and possession philosophies as he was unveiled by the club.

The 58-year-old was appointed on a three-year deal by Los Verdiblancos having left Las Palmas and added Dani Ceballos, Ruben Castro and Antonio Adan will all have important roles in his team.

"Everyone knows who I am, how I see the game," Setien told his unveiling press conference.

“You all know my philosophy of playing the game with the ball, of keeping possession and to forge close relationships with my players to help in this regard.

"I don't think it is going to take much for me to convince them regarding my proposal for playing the game, we want to grow gradually in one direction.

“When I arrived at Lugo, in the third tier, they said that they couldn't play football which is something I had to address immediately.

“I make this promise to Beticos that this will be the case with our club, I guarantee attacking, possession-based football.

“I don’t want to make any promises in terms of achievements for next year but this is a big club who need to be ambitious.

“By signing a three-year deal here it gives security for the players, for me and for the club – it benefits everyone.

“I see Dani Ceballos as a ‘benchmark’ player, we can build a team around him, as for Antonio Adan and Ruben Castro – I want them both to play big roles here.

“In terms of transfers and how we will form our squad, there will be a consensus between me and the sports management

"What I must do is to thank the President, the sporting director for the fact that I have been given this wonderful opportunity.”

https://www.football-espana.net/64295/setien-promises-betis-attacking-football

Hopefully Setién's arrival can re-vitalise Betis. I've always preferred them over Sevilla, and they have one of the most passionate fanbases in Spain. 

He has had a good track record, getting Lugo promoted to the 2nd tier and keeping them there. With Las Palmas he led them to a mid-table finish last year, and they made a good start this season and were briefly threatening to challenge for Europa League qualification. But amidst his constant disputes with the board, he announced a couple of months ago that he was leaving, and their form dropped sharply with them picking up just 1 point from their last 7 games. 

To me he is one of the most intriguing coaches in Europe, and his Las Palmas team generally played fluid attacking football and were a lot of fun to watch. 

Setién is one of my favourite coaches and I've mentioned him here (and the other forum) quite a number of times.  What he done with CD Lugo is practically a miracle to be honest because he not only got them promoted, but then made them a constant feature in Spain's second division and they even flirted with promotion to La Liga a number of times but fading away in the second half of the season.

That bit about his teams fading away toward the end is a constant feature though but maybe it's just coincidence and a lack of funds at those clubs to have a squad strong enough to compete right till the end.  Just to say that when he took over Lugo, they were seriously crap!

His name was even mentioned for a while amongst the candidates for the job at Barça with ex Barça director and big time player in every election Tony Freixa who has been very vocal about Quique Setién as the candidate for the job.  In a recent interview he said that Setién was already prepared and could give what's needed.  But maybe in the future now if he does a good job at Real Betis too.  Betis are a massive club in Spain with one of the most fervent fanbases in the country.  If he does well, he'll make himself a hero.

[SirBalon]

Juan Carlos Unzué officially named Celta Vigo coach

 

The coaching merry go round continues in Spain with the latest appointment being none other than one of the main candidates for the FC Barcelona job Juan Carlos Unzué (Luis Enrique's number two).  Celta Vigo this afternoon officially named him as the head coach for the next two seasons replacing the much loved Eduardo Berizzo who done a great job at Celta and now seems to be heading to Sevilla FC.

 

[Hugh Jass]

3 hours ago, SirBalon said:

Setién is one of my favourite coaches and I've mentioned him here (and the other forum) quite a number of times.  What he done with CD Lugo is practically a miracle to be honest because he not only got them promoted, but then made them a constant feature in Spain's second division and they even flirted with promotion to La Liga a number of times but fading away in the second half of the season.

That bit about his teams fading away toward the end is a constant feature though but maybe it's just coincidence and a lack of funds at those clubs to have a squad strong enough to compete right till the end.  Just to say that when he took over Lugo, they were seriously crap!

His name was even mentioned for a while amongst the candidates for the job at Barça with ex Barça director and big time player in every election Tony Freixa who has been very vocal about Quique Setién as the candidate for the job.  In a recent interview he said that Setién was already prepared and could give what's needed.  But maybe in the future now if he does a good job at Real Betis too.  Betis are a massive club in Spain with one of the most fervent fanbases in the country.  If he does well, he'll make himself a hero.

He has his ideals and his football principles and how he wants his teams to play, i.e. expansive, possession based attacking football, but he has shown some flexibility as well and I did see games where Las Palmas could mix it up and heaven forbid hit some long balls when necessary. During his playing career his main mentor was Aragonés I believe. 

It's no surprise that the Las Palmas fans love him and were continually chanting his name even after he announced that he was leaving. They have been treated to some very entertaining football under him. The midfield trio of Mesa, Gómez and Vieira in particular were a treat to watch. The 3-3 draw between Las Palmas and Berizzo's Celta team bac in October was definitely one of the matches of the season, especially for purists. 

That's an interesting point you raised about his teams always ending seasons badly, but you're right that he has always worked with shoestring budgets.

I strong Betis team would be great for Seville and La Liga in general. I doubt they'll hold on to Ceballos for next season but we'll see. 

[SirBalon]

8 hours ago, Hugh Jass said:

He has his ideals and his football principles and how he wants his teams to play, i.e. expansive, possession based attacking football, but he has shown some flexibility as well and I did see games where Las Palmas could mix it up and heaven forbid hit some long balls when necessary. During his playing career his main mentor was Aragonés I believe. 

It's no surprise that the Las Palmas fans love him and were continually chanting his name even after he announced that he was leaving. They have been treated to some very entertaining football under him. The midfield trio of Mesa, Gómez and Vieira in particular were a treat to watch. The 3-3 draw between Las Palmas and Berizzo's Celta team bac in October was definitely one of the matches of the season, especially for purists. 

That's an interesting point you raised about his teams always ending seasons badly, but you're right that he has always worked with shoestring budgets.

I strong Betis team would be great for Seville and La Liga in general. I doubt they'll hold on to Ceballos for next season but we'll see. 

He (Setién) has his temperament though...  Both at Lugo (toward the end) and at UD Las Palmas practically throughout his short time there he has had a very public bad relationship with the board.  Another thing about that is that once he seems to get to that stage with those that run the clubs, it's the end!  There doesn't seem to be anyway back to sort things out.

I know that in the final few weeks he sorted out his differences with the Lugo president but at Las Palmas it was a public war right to the end with the Las Palmas president at one point even flirting with taking Setién to court for failure to adhere to the options in the coach's contract.  At clubs of the size he's been coaching until now you can almost get away with it, but if he ever goes to one of the big boys which also includes Valencia, Atlético Madrid or Athletic Bilbao, then he could ruin his career and stunt his potential.  Just look at someone like Marcelo Bielsa who is a football guru that few know more about the sport...  His temperament has stopped him from ever being able to coach a massive club and there's no doubt a man like him should have a giant on his CV.  I mean, Luis Aragonés himself was seemingly an angry man a lot of the time and maybe that rubbed off on Quique Setién.

[Stan]

Enes Unal joins Villarreal from Man City

 

[SirBalon]

Villarreal will probably turn him into quality.  Don't know too much about him though.

[carefreeluke]

Charly Musonda should be getting back to Seville for a season long loan at Betis, he's the type of player that would suit Setien's style and it would be cost effective for them as well. 

Setien will do well there or it will go completely tits up, it's either going to be one or the other and no in between. I'm excited for them though and it's good to see them move away from the conservative managers they've had in recent times and it looks like they have a set up there now that could benefit the club in the long run. With Serra Ferrer's arrival as vice president (and his ideals) and I was reading how their B team has been playing a similar brand of football to Setien's for a while now, it looks like the pieces are finally starting to fit together a bit more and you'd hope they're at the beginnings of some sort of stability and club identity being formed. A lot different to around this time last year with Poyet in charge.

Setien is going to have to work wonders with that squad though and he's going to have to bring in the players to suit his brand of football and hopefully they can keep the likes of Ceballos and Adán as well. I'll always have a soft spot for them now after my time in Seville and it's going to be an interesting season ahead.

[SirBalon]

Quique Setién signs his first player for Real Betis.  Sergio León moves from Osasuna to Seville for €3.5m which was his buy-out clause.

[RandoEFC+]

Is it common for Spanish clubs to get less than what they should do for players because of buyout clauses agreed 2-3 years earlier? I know we're linked with this Sandro that has a similar €5m ish clause in his contract. 

[SirBalon]

Just now, RandoEFC said:

Is it common for Spanish clubs to get less than what they should do for players because of buyout clauses agreed 2-3 years earlier? I know we're linked with this Sandro that has a similar €5m ish clause in his contract. 

Yeah, the buy-out clauses especially at smaller clubs tend to be low and even more so on young players.  That's an issue that agents take advantage off!

[RandoEFC+]

1 minute ago, SirBalon said:

Yeah, the buy-out clauses especially at smaller clubs tend to be low and even more so on young players.  That's an issue that agents take advantage off!

Are buyouts compulsory in Spain? Seems a pretty massively obvious no-no unless you don't want to be able to demand big money for players who are worth more than when you signed them through the time and energy spent by the club to develop them. 

[SirBalon]

4 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Are buyouts compulsory in Spain? Seems a pretty massively obvious no-no unless you don't want to be able to demand big money for players who are worth more than when you signed them through the time and energy spent by the club to develop them. 

They're not compulsory but every club seems to want to use them so as to protect themselves from a possible tapping situation especially with young players.  But as is well known, they mostly end up working against the owning club unless they've done their work properly by renewing the contract annually as the player progresses.  At big clubs they protect themselves even better by making big clauses and there's another issue in that it's not just the buy-out clause the purchasing club has to pay out.  The moment you activate a buy-out clause, the buyer is responsible for the tax on that purchase and they have to pay the Spanish fiscal office themselves which at those prices stands at almost 50% and that's a lot of money especially on higher prices.

[nfb_10]

I'm looking forward for next season to start, to be honest. It's also going to be great seeing Girona in La Liga as well, another Catalan team and the first time they're going to be in the top flight in their history! 

[Spike]

I thought buy-outs were compulsory in Spain.

[SirBalon]

8 hours ago, Spike said:

I thought buy-outs were compulsory in Spain.

Not as far as I know unless something has changed.

[DeadLinesman]

Give me a team to start following in La Liga and I'll do my best to watch/stay involved. I lost interest when Elche were relegated for financial mismanagement and excess debt and Real Madrid weren't.....