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Matchday Chat - 12-13th December, 2017


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Rafa screamed in the summer for a number 10 and a goalkeeper and those are the two positions which have cost us tonight.

Everton reminded me exactly why us and West Ham drove Allardyce out. It's all fun and games when you get a result but you can't get the results like this and Liverpool every week, the turgid tactics and anti-football approach away from home (especially to the team 16th in the league) will drive fans up the wall when you lose. That is what has cost Allardyce in his career. Everton will lose to someone dross like us playing as turgid as they did and it will go down very badly.

First half we were good enough to be applauded off despite being 1 down. Second half we had no answers to get through. The substitutions seemed to make it even less likely and acted only to help Everton press and close down quickly.

I take heart to be honest. Had we stuck to Rafa principles like we finally brought back today I think we probably would be closer to meeting our 20 point target for the first half of the season. Abandoning the principles to go 442 for Bournemouth, Watford and Leicester at home gave those 3 deserved wins. It could prove costly at the end of the season. Just 1 win from those 3 and we'd be ok.

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10 minutes ago, Kitchen Sales said:

Rafa screamed in the summer for a number 10 and a goalkeeper and those are the two positions which have cost us tonight.

Everton reminded me exactly why us and West Ham drove Allardyce out. It's all fun and games when you get a result but you can't get the results like this and Liverpool every week, the turgid tactics and anti-football approach away from home (especially to the team 16th in the league) will drive fans up the wall when you lose. That is what has cost Allardyce in his career. Everton will lose to someone dross like us playing as turgid as they did and it will go down very badly.

First half we were good enough to be applauded off despite being 1 down. Second half we had no answers to get through. The substitutions seemed to make it even less likely and acted only to help Everton press and close down quickly.

I take heart to be honest. Had we stuck to Rafa principles like we finally brought back today I think we probably would be closer to meeting our 20 point target for the first half of the season. Abandoning the principles to go 442 for Bournemouth, Watford and Leicester at home gave those 3 deserved wins. It could prove costly at the end of the season. Just 1 win from those 3 and we'd be ok.

I said to my mate that Everton fans will hate him by May. 

I also took heart, thought it was a lot better than previous weeks, didn't look like men against boys. Shelvey is a total fucking clown and has vindicated Rafa.

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3 minutes ago, Kitchen Sales said:

Rafa screamed in the summer for a number 10 and a goalkeeper and those are the two positions which have cost us tonight.

Everton reminded me exactly why us and West Ham drove Allardyce out. It's all fun and games when you get a result but you can't get the results like this and Liverpool every week, the turgid tactics and anti-football approach away from home (especially to the team 16th in the league) will drive fans up the wall when you lose. That is what has cost Allardyce in his career. Everton will lose to someone dross like us playing as turgid as they did and it will go down very badly.

First half we were good enough to be applauded off despite being 1 down. Second half we had no answers to get through. The substitutions seemed to make it even less likely and acted only to help Everton press and close down quickly.

I take heart to be honest. Had we stuck to Rafa principles like we finally brought back today I think we probably would be closer to meeting our 20 point target for the first half of the season. Abandoning the principles to go 442 for Bournemouth, Watford and Leicester at home gave those 3 deserved wins. It could prove costly at the end of the season. Just 1 win from those 3 and we'd be ok.

While you're fair enough with the rest, I don't imagine that still earning £100k a week as Everton manager will go down as "costing him his career" in Sam's book.

If we continue to play this way for 18 months under him then fine he can clear off when someone else is available but I'm cautiously (naively?) optimistic that once the defensive base is really secure, we will work more on our attacking play.

Problem for us at the moment is that we are slow or insecure in several areas of the pitch so it's almost impossible to stretch teams away from home. Sigurdsson and Martina bombing forward tonight for example would have been suicidal when they're up against Yedlin whose pace caused them enough issues when we were sitting deep. Williams, Schneiderlin both much improved tonight but don't have the pace to cover, Rooney isn't getting back to support the defence if he's just been part of an attack. Calvert-Lewin and Niasse will run all day but neither of them have the sort of Vardy pace or Lukaku power that enables us to twat it upfield and turn defence into attack. I can't think of any other team in the league who have personnel that are less well equipped than us to deal with counter attacks so away from home or against better teams this is our life at the moment. 

Ideally we get a pacey left sided centre back, a quick left back, a quick, powerful striker and a marauding box to box midfielder over the next few transfer windows to go some way to addressing the issues above.

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1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

While you're fair enough with the rest, I don't imagine that still earning £100k a week as Everton manager will go down as "costing him his career" in Sam's book.

If we continue to play this way for 18 months under him then fine he can clear off when someone else is available but I'm cautiously (naively?) optimistic that once the defensive base is really secure, we will work more on our attacking play.

Problem for us at the moment is that we are slow or insecure in several areas of the pitch so it's almost impossible to stretch teams away from home. Sigurdsson and Martina bombing forward tonight for example would have been suicidal when they're up against Yedlin whose pace caused them enough issues when we were sitting deep. Williams, Schneiderlin both much improved tonight but don't have the pace to cover, Rooney isn't getting back to support the defence if he's just been part of an attack. Calvert-Lewin and Niasse will run all day but neither of them have the sort of Vardy pace or Lukaku power that enables us to twat it upfield and turn defence into attack. I can't think of any other team in the league who have personnel that are less well equipped than us to deal with counter attacks so away from home or against better teams this is our life at the moment. 

Ideally we get a pacey left sided centre back, a quick left back, a quick, powerful striker and a marauding box to box midfielder over the next few transfer windows to go some way to addressing the issues above.

Surely that can't be the case?

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30 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

While you're fair enough with the rest, I don't imagine that still earning £100k a week as Everton manager will go down as "costing him his career" in Sam's book.

If we continue to play this way for 18 months under him then fine he can clear off when someone else is available but I'm cautiously (naively?) optimistic that once the defensive base is really secure, we will work more on our attacking play.

Problem for us at the moment is that we are slow or insecure in several areas of the pitch so it's almost impossible to stretch teams away from home. Sigurdsson and Martina bombing forward tonight for example would have been suicidal when they're up against Yedlin whose pace caused them enough issues when we were sitting deep. Williams, Schneiderlin both much improved tonight but don't have the pace to cover, Rooney isn't getting back to support the defence if he's just been part of an attack. Calvert-Lewin and Niasse will run all day but neither of them have the sort of Vardy pace or Lukaku power that enables us to twat it upfield and turn defence into attack. I can't think of any other team in the league who have personnel that are less well equipped than us to deal with counter attacks so away from home or against better teams this is our life at the moment. 

Ideally we get a pacey left sided centre back, a quick left back, a quick, powerful striker and a marauding box to box midfielder over the next few transfer windows to go some way to addressing the issues above.

Well I hope for your sake he either has an epiphany (doubtful) or gets lucky enough that things fall in the right place to paper over his cracks (maybe possible), we had bags of attacking talent and played exactly the same as you did today.

Most managers tend to have the same faults wherever they go, it's a curious thing but it seems to be the case with many and has definitely been the case with him. I always keep a special look out for what fans say are their manager or players weakness if they are about to join us because invariably those flaws will show up. 

His wages or getting lucky that Everton were desperate enough to appoint him doesn't negate the repeating factor that meant he never kicked on after Bolton despite a decade trying. It's the product of playing percentages instead of playing football. Even before Sunderland's annual Easter rallying their fans were also dying in the away end watching their team playing that way, I used to thoroughly enjoy the local phone in for months of them under Allardyce. 

Allardyce doesn't get sacked because his team collapses down the table and needs saving, if he gets sacked or if he is disliked then the root of it is because he tortures the fans away from home. He got away with it a bit more at Blackburn because they haven't got any away fans :ph34r: that is the best type of club for him.

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One of the worst away performances I have ever seen was under Allardyce. Wigan away, 1-0 defeat on Boxing Day. If the game was going on now we wouldn't have scored. And we won't go into the Derby County away game.

I think as a manager he has improved since back then, at a club where there are no expectations he would do a good job. He would probably have done okay with London FC as well had he not been sacked. 

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6 minutes ago, Any O'Brien said:

One of the worst away performances I have ever seen was under Allardyce. Wigan away, 1-0 defeat on Boxing Day. If the game was going on now we wouldn't have scored. And we won't go into the Derby County away game.

I think as a manager he has improved since back then, at a club where there are no expectations he would do a good job. He would probably have done okay with London FC as well had he not been sacked. 

He got them promoted and kept them up for a while in fairness (one for @Cannabis)

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We fucking won away! 11 months and stupid amount of miles put in and I've seen us win in the league! In an ideal world it would have been last week but the next best thing is against the Rafalution. 

Outclassed against big Samuel. He should be fired on the spot. Go and get Dyche, Newcastle. 

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