Dr. Gonzo Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 2 hours ago, CaaC (John) said: In reality maybe China in numbers but not advanced like the USA (Technology) but...the way that idiot Trump is going cutting the American defence budget to build a bloody wall and whatever else America will drop down the pecking order with China & Russia going above them in Naval Technology and even ahead in land forces (Army) Technology, it does send a little shiver down my spine. Trump and the republicans actually keep increasing the military budget. The US Army Corps of Engineers (the people who built the Golden Gate Bridge, amongst other things) will probably build the wall, if Trump goes about the wall as a “national emergency.” Also if you look at the amount the US spends on its military, I think China and Russia likely would take decades to even struggle keep up the pace with an America that even cut spending by a ridiculous amount. 2 hours ago, Harry said: Trump alleges he had an operation underway to strike multiple sites when he asked and was told that 150 people would die. Am I the only one staggered that: A) anyone in the American military would have put forward a mission that would kill 150 across 5 sites over a drone, and B) that Trump had already approved the operation and it had gotten underway before he asked the number of causalities? I’m not surprised the military wanted a disproportionate response. First, it’s incredibly easy for them to put out a disproportionate attack that they’ll argue is a future deterrent from the Islamic Republic’s aggression. Secondly, anything that’s expensive for Iran right now is economically devastating because their economy is in tatters right now. They’d be banking on Iran and it’s population not having the stomach for a war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 On 21/06/2019 at 17:12, Dr. Gonzo said: Trump and the republicans actually keep increasing the military budget. The US Army Corps of Engineers (the people who built the Golden Gate Bridge, amongst other things) will probably build the wall, if Trump goes about the wall as a “national emergency.” Also if you look at the amount the US spends on its military, I think China and Russia likely would take decades to even struggle keep up the pace with an America that even cut spending by a ridiculous amount. I’m not surprised the military wanted a disproportionate response. First, it’s incredibly easy for them to put out a disproportionate attack that they’ll argue is a future deterrent from the Islamic Republic’s aggression. Secondly, anything that’s expensive for Iran right now is economically devastating because their economy is in tatters right now. They’d be banking on Iran and it’s population not having the stomach for a war. Iran is mostly Shia, they're not usually the aggressors but when it comes to war they are passionate as hell, if attacked they will put their lives on the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 13 hours ago, MUFC said: Iran is mostly Shia, they're not usually the aggressors but when it comes to war they are passionate as hell, if attacked they will put their lives on the line. If Iran gets invaded, there will be plenty of stomach for war in Iran. And they’ll do what they can to make a war painful for the whole region Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azeem Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 Jeremy Hunt said UK would join any US attack on Iran on the other hand Khamiene has said any new sanctions mean end to diplomacy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Stick With Azeem said: Jeremy Hunt said UK would join any US attack on Iran on the other hand Khamiene has said any new sanctions mean end to diplomacy Right now any potential Tory Prime Minister would join the US in an attack wherever. Even on the UK itself... The amount of butt licking of the US since this Brexit stuff came to the fore is so embarrassing it’s hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Rouhani called Trump something that I’m not allowed to say on this forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azeem Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Rouhani called Trump something that I’m not allowed to say on this forum He called him guy with the small penis ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Stick With Azeem said: He called him guy with the small penis ? No, it starts with an r and ends in “tarded” - as a result he’s threatened to obliterate Iran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azeem Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 Not sure if it's related to this thread but British Marines seized an Iranian oil tanker in Gibraltar carrying oil to Syria... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 The Soggy Baguettes in charge of Iran doing their best to get Iranians killed by trying to stop a British tanker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowabunga Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 On 05/07/2019 at 06:42, Stick With Azeem said: Not sure if it's related to this thread but British Marines seized an Iranian oil tanker in Gibraltar carrying oil to Syria... It's quite interesting and it is indeed somewhat related (just like the US droid taken down near the Strait of Hormuz). If the enforcement of EU sanctions (because that's the rationale provided for the seizure) goes further than EU members (vis-à-vis the targets of the sanctions), the Strait of Gibraltar may quickly enter a new level of hard power tensions that so far have been mostly hidden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azeem Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) Iranian drone shot down by US navy 1-1 Scores are all tied up Edited July 19, 2019 by Stick With Azeem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azeem Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 Iran says US shot down its own drone 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairy In Boots Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Think this one will rumble so starting a thread. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49054318 Quote This crisis was entirely predictable, but was it avoidable? At the start of this month the Gibraltarian authorities - aided by a detachment of Royal Marines - detained a tanker which was believed to be carrying Iranian oil destined for Syria. This would have been a breach of EU sanctions directed against various Syrian entities and individuals. Gibraltar and Britain insist they were acting entirely legally, but Tehran has described the episode as piracy. And ever since the vessel was detained, the Iranians have been threatening to seize a British-flagged ship in retaliation. Indeed, an earlier effort by Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps to divert a British tanker into Iranian waters was only averted by the muscular intervention of a Royal Navy warship, the Type 23 frigate HMS Montrose. But there is a limit to what one warship can do. Iran seizes British tanker in Strait of Hormuz Threat level raised for UK ships in Iranian waters This time it appears not to have arrived on the scene quickly enough and the Stena Impero and its crew are now in Iranian hands. A second ship that was detained by the Iranians was subsequently allowed to go, underlining the fact that this seems to be a direct retaliation for the arrest of the tanker off Gibraltar. Diplomacy, not force So what happens now? Well the first thing to remember is that this specific row between Tehran and London is only one aspect of an already highly volatile situation in the Gulf. The Trump administration's decision to walk away from the international nuclear deal with Iran and to re-apply sanctions is having a hugely damaging impact on the Iranian economy. Iran is pushing back. While it denies some of these actions, the US and its allies believe it was responsible for attacking several vessels with limpet mines. It has also shot-down a sophisticated US unmanned aircraft. And, as if to underline the risk of conflict, the US claims more recently to have shot down an Iranian UAV (drone) that approached one of its vessels. The Iranians deny the loss. So the first order of business is to try to calm tensions and avoid escalation. Image caption Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt has made it clear that way ahead will rely upon diplomacy not force Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt has made it clear that he wants this problem resolved urgently, but that the way ahead will rely upon diplomacy not force. He has already spoken with his US counterpart - Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. He has tried, but so far failed, to speak to his Iranian opposite number. There are likely to be many more bilateral conversations in the hours and days ahead as Britain seeks to develop as wide a coalition of countries as possible to try to encourage Iran to release the Stena Impero. While Britain will not want to have this presented as a simple exchange of vessels - it maintains that Iran's actions, contrary to its own, are illegal - it is highly likely that the fate of the Grace 1 - the vessel detained off Gibraltar - will have to figure in any future arrangement. Since Iran's threats to UK-flagged shipping were well known, this episode is highly embarrassing for the British government. The priority now will be to ensure the safe return of the vessel and its crew. But difficult questions will have to be answered concerning the decisions that have been taken and the resources available. Given the highly fragile and volatile situation in the Gulf, together with the desperate need to bolster the flagging Iran nuclear accord, was it sensible to detain the vessel carrying Iranian oil off Gibraltar? Were the wider potential consequences adequately examined? What did ministers think Iran would do? And did they really believe that this arrest could be insulated from the wider crisis in the Gulf? Secondly, why was UK shipping not adequately protected in the Gulf? There are only a relatively small number of UK-flagged vessels passing through the Strait of Hormuz, but, as events have shown, far too many for one hard-pressed warship and its crew to provide security. This time, HMS Montrose apparently arrived just minutes too late to intervene. A second warship is on its way, the Type 45 destroyer HMS Duncan. We are told that the decision to announce the despatch of the second vessel was thought about long and hard - balancing the need for security against a desire not to do anything to escalate tensions. Nonetheless, Iran was signalling its intentions loud and clear. It was neither deterred nor dissuaded from seizing a British tanker. Uncomfortable issues The episode raises some uncomfortable issues regarding Britain's global maritime role. The UK has the pretence of playing a significant naval role in the Gulf. This today amounts to a naval base, one frigate, a Royal Fleet Auxiliary amphibious landing ship and four mine counter-measures vessels - what used to be called minesweepers. One destroyer is on its way and another vessel is due to head to Gulf waters in due course. This force was not configured to protect British shipping. Naval experts believe that the Royal Navy simply no longer has sufficient numbers of work-horses - frigates and destroyers - to be able to surge vessels into the Gulf when a crisis beckons. You clearly cannot be everywhere at once. Britain must tailor its armed forces according to its means. But this crisis did not erupt yesterday. And for whatever reason, the naval presence there was insufficient to prevent the seizure of a British merchant vessel. Perhaps Iran's warnings were not taken seriously enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Step 1. Stop committing false flag attacks in the gulf and blaming Iran Step 2. Peace. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azeem Posted July 20, 2019 Author Share Posted July 20, 2019 32 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said: Step 1. Stop committing false flag attacks in the gulf and blaming Iran Step 2. Peace. Devil-Dick knows.... Also we already have a whole thread for the US-Iran tensions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azeem Posted July 20, 2019 Author Share Posted July 20, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azeem Posted July 20, 2019 Author Share Posted July 20, 2019 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/20/gulf-crisis-tanker-retaliation-iran-hormuz Interesting article about seizure of British oil tankers by Iran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azeem Posted July 20, 2019 Author Share Posted July 20, 2019 (edited) Changed the title as things are now not just about military buildup..... Edited July 20, 2019 by Stick With Azeem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Batard Posted July 20, 2019 Administrator Share Posted July 20, 2019 In a way, these feel like the modern day crusades of the West as they seek to purge the the old holy lands and reshape them in their image. Religion. It inevitably comes back to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azeem Posted July 20, 2019 Author Share Posted July 20, 2019 43 minutes ago, Batard said: In a way, these feel like the modern day crusades of the West as they seek to purge the the old holy lands and reshape them in their image. Religion. It inevitably comes back to it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Crusade_(CounterPunch) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 46 minutes ago, Batard said: In a way, these feel like the modern day crusades of the West as they seek to purge the the old holy lands and reshape them in their image. Religion. It inevitably comes back to it. When it comes to domestic politics, there will be some the drive the religion angle to control their citizens or to play fascist identity politics. When it comes to international politics though, it mainly comes down to money and power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azeem Posted July 20, 2019 Author Share Posted July 20, 2019 Javad Zarif met with Senator Rand Paul yesterday for possible talks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 I still don't fully grasp this conflict. Is it just about the US stepping in to kneecap the second biggest player in the middle east to preserve the status quo? What actual threat do Iran pose, and why is Trump happy to meet with Kim but take such a different approach here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azeem Posted July 20, 2019 Author Share Posted July 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Harry said: I still don't fully grasp this conflict. Is it just about the US stepping in to kneecap the second biggest player in the middle east to preserve the status quo? What actual threat do Iran pose, and why is Trump happy to meet with Kim but take such a different approach here? With Middle East it's always complicated - A part of what Batard said, with the Bible belt and their influence in US politics, what we see in US approach towards Middle East has some eschatological desires in its foreign policy for the region. - Israel, Saudis regional rivals of Iran and allies of US, it's simple enemy of my friend is an enemy. Why would Saudis buy $$$ dollars of arms from US if they have no regional threat ? - To halt the growing influence of China in the region, a short war will hurt ambitions of China in the long run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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