The Big Middle Eastern Thread

[Redcanuck]

10 hours ago, 6666 said:

I wonder why so many people compare the Israeli government and their supporters to Nazis. It's baffling...

Kind of ironic when you consider the help that progressive and Liberal Jews gave to the groups now calling them Nazis during their attempt obtain civil rights for themselves. One has to wonder how successful the American Civil Rights movement would have been without help from American Jews.  I guess they have never heard of  Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner.

Nor do they remember Hajj Amin al-Husseini a true Nazi and a friend of Hitler's.  He abused his position as the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem to foment riots against Jews, most notoriously in the Hebron massacre of 1929.   The British tried to keep the Arabs onside in the Second World War by banning Jewish immigration, but al-Husseini sided with Hitler and the Nazis anyway. The Arab leadership collaborated with Hitler and made sure, through pressure on the British, that Jews of Europe had nowhere to escape.   

Edited November 10, 2023 by Redcanuck

[6666]

43 minutes ago, Redcanuck said:

Kind of ironic when you consider the help that progressive and Liberal Jews gave to the groups now calling them Nazis during their attempt obtain civil rights for themselves. One has to wonder how successful the American Civil Rights movement would have been without help from American Jews.  I guess they have never heard of  Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner.

Nor do they remember Hajj Amin al-Husseini a true Nazi and a friend of Hitler's.  He abused his position as the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem to foment riots against Jews, most notoriously in the Hebron massacre of 1929.   The British tried to keep the Arabs onside in the Second World War by banning Jewish immigration, but al-Husseini sided with Hitler and the Nazis anyway. The Arab leadership collaborated with Hitler and made sure, through pressure on the British, that Jews of Europe had nowhere to escape.   

One thing that people supporting Israel don't seem to understand is that a whole group of people aren't all alike.

There are Jews against Israel's actions = I agree with them. There are Jews in favour of Israel's actions = I don't agree with them. The same logic can be applied to every other person of any other group. Understanding this is a great way to avoid wanting genocide against a group.

It's an Israeli staple but the whole "criticising Israel mean you hate all Jews" angle doesn't play anymore. Great marketing on their part but seems to have lost its power.

[Redcanuck]

35 minutes ago, 6666 said:

One thing that people supporting Israel don't seem to understand is that a whole group of people aren't all alike.

There are Jews against Israel's actions = I agree with them. There are Jews in favour of Israel's actions = I don't agree with them. The same logic can be applied to every other person of any other group. Understanding this is a great way to avoid wanting genocide against a group.

It's an Israeli staple but the whole "criticising Israel mean you hate all Jews" angle doesn't play anymore. Great marketing on their part but seems to have lost its power.

Tell that to the people protesting in the streets,  they don't make a distinction between the state of Israel and Jewish people world wide.  They are chanting death to the Jews and gas the Jews as well as falsely  accusing Israel of genocide  and being an Apartheid state. In Canada we have had Jewish restaurants vandalized, houses own by Jews shot at and moltov cocktails thrown at two synagogues. Plus Jewush students on university campuses are staying in their dorms because they have been harrased on campus.

[6666]

1 minute ago, Redcanuck said:

Tell that to the people protesting in the streets,  they don't make a distinction between the state of Israel and Jewish people world wide.  They are chanting death to the Jews and gas the Jews as well as falsely  accusing Israel of genocide  and being an Apartheid state. In Canada we have had Jewish restaurants vandalized, houses own by Jews shot at and moltov cocktails thrown at two synagogues. Plus Jewush students on university campuses are staying in their dorms because they have been harrased on campus.

There are definitely dangerous, bigoted people like that but to suggest that's what the whole movement is about is extremely disingenuous and you know that.

The fact that you've slipped in "they've said things about Israel" tells me you're intentionally using the bad things people are doing to discredit the right things people are doing which is call out Israel.

Separating how Jews are judged from how Israel is judged is completely fair. Anyone who chooses to view them as the same is definitely wrong. Whether that's to be antisemitic or if it's to use as a shield for Israel. Wrong either way.

[Cicero]

Hamas will be held accountable for their war crimes and will attest to the record in court.

Will Israel and the IDF? 

[Dr. Gonzo]

19 hours ago, Cicero said:

Hamas will be held accountable for their war crimes and will attest to the record in court.

Will Israel and the IDF? 

You know they won’t. The same reason the US and Russia won’t be held accountable for war crimes. 

I’m pretty sure all 3 aren’t even members of the ICC because they don’t want to have to submit to a jurisdiction that might recognise war crimes.

[6666]

The racists emboldened by that walking parasite, Suella Braverman, ended up being the main people that caused disruption at the march today. What a surprise.

And in Israel, Israelis criticising Israel getting harassed and slapped around by Israeli police.

Maybe the likes of Tom Robinson, Ben Shapiro, and some of the world's most renowned hate mongers that are supporting the Israeli government can make a convincing argument as to why Israel are actually doing the right thing.

[Stan]

I guess this must be because Hamas are underground. 

Cunts. 

 

 

[Azeem]

The constant references to bombing of Dresden as a justification for using brute force in Gaza will not convince majority of population with a conscious but it will certainly dent the dominant view of WWII as some sort of virtuous warfare. 

[Cicero]

Used to think Shaprio was somewhat clever but then noticed the illusion of looking clever when all you debate are college students. 

[Redcanuck]

19 hours ago, Stan said:

I guess this must be because Hamas are underground. 

Cunts. 

 

 

Israel has offered to evacute all the patients in the hospital, Hamas has refused to allow it.    The reason there is no oxygen or electricity in the hospital is because Hamas have stolen all the fuel needed  to run the generators.  IDF arranged with senior officials at the hospital to deliver 300 litres of fuel to a collection point near the hospital, which the Israelis delivered. Hamas refused to allow hospital staff to pick it up.  If these 39 babies die, and I understand  2 or 3 already have, their deaths are on Hamas 's heads, not Israel 's.

[Rucksackfranzose]

16 minutes ago, Redcanuck said:

Israel has offered to evacute all the patients in the hospital, Hamas has refused to allow it.    The reason there is no oxygen or electricity in the hospital is because Hamas have stolen all the fuel needed  to run the generators.  IDF arranged with senior officials at the hospital to deliver 300 litres of fuel to a collection point near the hospital, which the Israelis delivered. Hamas refused to allow hospital staff to pick it up.  If these 39 babies die, and I understand  2 or 3 already have, their deaths are on Hamas 's heads, not Israel 's.

As is the death of the quadriplegic patient the IDF snipper shoot in the neck? Mesmerizing how a war party you have sided with can't commit any war crimes regardless what they do.

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Rucksackfranzose

[Carnivore Chris]

The scenes in Sudan right now are horrific.

[Goku de la Boca]

If I had to see this, so do you 

[Stan]

Ah the irony of England being placed on the right wing as well  

[Redcanuck]

2 hours ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

As is the death of the quadriplegic patient the IDF snipper shoot in the neck? Mesmerizing how a war party you have sided with can't commit any war crimes regardless what they do.

 

No independent verification of this claim.   No reports from any western media.     Remarkable similar to a claim 6 years ago about an Israeli sniper shooting a double amputee vaiving a Palastinian flag, a claim that has never been proven.  You can't believe anything Hamas says and the continued posting of Hamas propaganda on this forum is disgusting.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Goku de la Boca said:

If I had to see this, so do you 

I think Saudi Arabia and other Arab states from the Persian golf probably are more deserving of a spot than Hamas & Hezbollah.

For democracy, I think either the USA or Israel should be playing on the right wing. Probably Israel, considering Ben-Gvir being a part of Israel's governing coalition - so move US to right-sided striker.

[Rucksackfranzose]

7 minutes ago, Redcanuck said:

No independent verification of this claim.   No reports from any western media.     Remarkable similar to a claim 6 years ago about an Israeli sniper shooting a double amputee vaiving a Palastinian flag, a claim that has never been proven.  You can't believe anything Hamas says and the continued posting of Hamas propaganda on this forum is disgusting.

The original tweet is from doctors without borders. Are you claiming them would do Hamas propaganda? Them an worldwide NGO known for their independance and neutrality?

Edited November 13, 2023 by Rucksackfranzose

[Stan]

13 minutes ago, Redcanuck said:

No independent verification of this claim.   No reports from any western media.     Remarkable similar to a claim 6 years ago about an Israeli sniper shooting a double amputee vaiving a Palastinian flag, a claim that has never been proven.  You can't believe anything Hamas says and the continued posting of Hamas propaganda on this forum is disgusting.

And why can the IDF be believed on the opposite side? 

[Goku de la Boca]

13 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think Saudi Arabia and other Arab states from the Persian golf probably are more deserving of a spot than Hamas & Hezbollah.

For democracy, I think either the USA or Israel should be playing on the right wing. Probably Israel, considering Ben-Gvir being a part of Israel's governing coalition - so move US to right-sided striker.

It was made by an Israeli, go figure.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Goku de la Boca said:

It was made by an Israeli, go figure.

I guess Saudi Arabia's already represented with ISIS there.

[Redcanuck]

1 minute ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

The original tweet is from doctors without borders. Are you claiming them would do Hamas propaganda? Actually they're more neutral than most Western media.

Yes I am.   DWB has long been accused of having an anti Israeli bias.  They consistently abuse  their status as a humanitarian organization to launch venomous anti-Israel political campaigns.

 

 

[Redcanuck]

8 minutes ago, Stan said:

And why can the IDF be believed on the opposite side? 

Because they normal provide footage,, pictures, video and  taped conversations that back up what they say.

[Rucksackfranzose]

4 minutes ago, Redcanuck said:

Because they normal provide footage,, pictures, video and  taped conversations that back up what they say.

You mean like the pictures the US provided to to prove their attack on Iraq were justified, since the Iraq had biological and chemical warfare?

[Redcanuck]

55 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

You mean like the pictures the US provided to to prove their attack on Iraq were justified, since the Iraq had biological and chemical warfare?

Yeah Governmens don't always tell the truth and the photos of the weapons of mass destruction is a perfect example. But you have to go with the percentages and the history,  Hamas has no history of telling the truth, Israel does.  Nobody is saying the israeli Government always tells the truth, they will tell lies as well, but I trust their record of telling the truth more than I do Hamas