The Big Middle Eastern Thread

[OrangeKhrush]

On 28/05/2024 at 22:20, MUFC said:

 

That is Deceptive Imagery Persuasion (DIP) Sunday was a religious observance day and they acknowledged that so maybe it was just a normal party night on a Saturday in Hebron, how is there any proof they were celebrating an airstrike nobody would have known about?

Al Jezeera, TRT, A+J all one sided media that rely on DIP to create narrative.

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

They traded an Iranian dynasty for an Islamic totalitarian one.   In the end we know the wrong one is in power.

Calling the Pahlavis an Iranian dynasty is a bit funny. There were 2 of them. One put in power by the UK until he started acting like not a puppet. Then he was replaced by a democracy. Then that democracy started acting in its national interests. Then the US and UK got scared of what that might do to oil prices so they put in the first Shah’s son. And he was a corrupt autocrat who was also a terrible statesman, only fostering ties with one American political party despite being a US puppet.

Western media also played a role in Khomeini’s rise from obscurity in exile in Iraq to becoming an internationally recognizable face of revolution and anti-western imperialism. That was probably done because of the Cold War - the US feared communism and preferred the idea of dealing with religious extremists & Europeans and the West generally has seemingly long had the idea that brown people in the Middle East need authoritarian rule rather than democracy.

[OrangeKhrush]

46 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Calling the Pahlavis an Iranian dynasty is a bit funny. There were 2 of them. One put in power by the UK until he started acting like not a puppet. Then he was replaced by a democracy. Then that democracy started acting in its national interests. Then the US and UK got scared of what that might do to oil prices so they put in the first Shah’s son. And he was a corrupt autocrat who was also a terrible statesman, only fostering ties with one American political party despite being a US puppet.

Western media also played a role in Khomeini’s rise from obscurity in exile in Iraq to becoming an internationally recognizable face of revolution and anti-western imperialism. That was probably done because of the Cold War - the US feared communism and preferred the idea of dealing with religious extremists & Europeans and the West generally has seemingly long had the idea that brown people in the Middle East need authoritarian rule rather than democracy.

The historical source document called them that so I just went with their framing.   In the end it smells like a lot of politicking went on and created a problem that has come back to bite them. 

It would be silly not to say that Biden and those in parliament with their fingers dirty from the war pie that the Military industrial complex is serving up don't want this to go on,  but its a balancing act of trying to keep it going and faining interest in stopping it to get votes.    

The other "conspiracy" which is flausible but highly unlikely is that Biden is trying to force a internal coup de tat in the Knesset by trying to buy certain parties holding the cabinet together,  the prominent person is Benny Gantz who was front runner on the polls but what needs to be stressed is that even though he is popular he will only have 41%,  it sounds good but its worth nothing because 41% can't pass anything unilaterally.   Likhud are still going to get around 33% of the vote and the National Unity cabinet will still need Likhud members to hold.   A coup de tat will be disaster for America to push,  the idea is that Gantz will withdraw from the cabinet and turn to a vote of no confidence where he hopes that the others vote him in as new prime minister that is the ideal situation Biden wants but Benny Gantz following his unauthorised flight to the US is not popular amongst the other parties. 

I prefer the issue to go to voting,  I will vote for Yair Lapid and Yesh Atid,  he has a good alliance with Ra'am (Arab party),  it is probably the last chance at a two state in any viable form.   

[Rucksackfranzose]

2 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

The historical source document called them that so I just went with their framing.   In the end it smells like a lot of politicking went on and created a problem that has come back to bite them. 

It would be silly not to say that Biden and those in parliament with their fingers dirty from the war pie that the Military industrial complex is serving up don't want this to go on,  but its a balancing act of trying to keep it going and faining interest in stopping it to get votes.    

The other "conspiracy" which is flausible but highly unlikely is that Biden is trying to force a internal coup de tat in the Knesset by trying to buy certain parties holding the cabinet together,  the prominent person is Benny Gantz who was front runner on the polls but what needs to be stressed is that even though he is popular he will only have 41%,  it sounds good but its worth nothing because 41% can't pass anything unilaterally.   Likhud are still going to get around 33% of the vote and the National Unity cabinet will still need Likhud members to hold.   A coup de tat will be disaster for America to push,  the idea is that Gantz will withdraw from the cabinet and turn to a vote of no confidence where he hopes that the others vote him in as new prime minister that is the ideal situation Biden wants but Benny Gantz following his unauthorised flight to the US is not popular amongst the other parties. 

I prefer the issue to go to voting,  I will vote for Yair Lapid and Yesh Atid,  he has a good alliance with Ra'am (Arab party),  it is probably the last chance at a two state in any viable form.   

So you already booked your flight to Israel for October? Asking because the election is on 1st of November and Israeli living abroad can only vote if they're in Israel at the election date?

[OrangeKhrush]

11 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

So you already booked your flight to Israel for October? Asking because the election is on 1st of November and Israeli living abroad can only vote if they're in Israel at the election date?

Got dual citizenship

[Rucksackfranzose]

1 hour ago, OrangeKhrush said:

Got dual citizenship

Doesn't change the fact you've to be personally in Israel to vote on November, the 1st.

Excerpt from the Israeli embassy's explanation of Israeli voting right:

Landesweit: Das israelische Gesetz sieht eine Stimmenabgabe für im Ausland lebende Staatsangehörige
nicht vor, und die Abstimmung erfolgt nur auf israelischem Hoheitsgebiet. Die einzige Ausnahme bilden
israelische Staatsangehörige, die auf israelischen Schiffen und an israelischen Botschaften und Kosulten arbeiten.

Translation: The Israeli election right doesn'tprovidevoting for citizens living abroad and the voting only takes place on Israeli territory. Only exceptions are Israeli citizen working on Israeli shipsor at Israeli embassies and consulates. Oops

Perhaps I shouldn't have expected you to know the election legislation of a nation you're claiming to be citizen of. Why would a lawyer know the law?

Edited May 30 by Rucksackfranzose

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

Got dual citizenship

Think you still have to be in Israel to vote for Israeli elections

[Dr. Gonzo]

This is why history classes are important.

The university students in the US currently protesting have much more in common with the Iranians who were members of National Front & Tudeh during the Iranian revolution. They were against the Shah, but did not want the kind of life for Iranians that Khomeini, and the shitbag Khamenei who would follow him, would draw up for them.

If you value things like human rights and are against oppression and you ally with Islamicists like Khamenei, Sinwar, Haniyeh, Nasrallah, or Al-Houthi... you are hurting your cause and working against your values. And at the end of the day if you help them succeed, you're probably going to bring about a whole new form of oppression you'd never really have imagined in the first place.

[OrangeKhrush]

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Think you still have to be in Israel to vote for Israeli elections

I applied last year November for Aliyah,  the extend absentee ballots,  the only issue I will need to clarify is if by application was on time because the cut off appears to be September 2023.   I am waiting for my partner to complete her conversion through the Beit din 

[OrangeKhrush]

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

This is why history classes are important.

The university students in the US currently protesting have much more in common with the Iranians who were members of National Front & Tudeh during the Iranian revolution. They were against the Shah, but did not want the kind of life for Iranians that Khomeini, and the shitbag Khamenei who would follow him, would draw up for them.

If you value things like human rights and are against oppression and you ally with Islamicists like Khamenei, Sinwar, Haniyeh, Nasrallah, or Al-Houthi... you are hurting your cause and working against your values. And at the end of the day if you help them succeed, you're probably going to bring about a whole new form of oppression you'd never really have imagined in the first place.

Nobody should doubt that supporting Islamism even ignorantly or tacitly is a problem,  you can say that about any form of radicalism. 

[6666]

On 30/05/2024 at 22:03, OrangeKhrush said:

Nobody should doubt that supporting Islamism even ignorantly or tacitly is a problem,  you can say that about any form of radicalism. 

Especially Zionist extremism (feels too bigoted to call it Jewish-ism so I'll avoid being like you).

[MUFC]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz55y6k0p5go

[Dr. Gonzo]

21 hours ago, 6666 said:

Especially Zionist extremism (feels too bigoted to call it Jewish-ism so I'll avoid being like you).

Saying Islamicism isn’t a bigoted term - it’s a political belief guided by Islamic fundamentalism. It’s not even the same kind of religious bullshit as Zionism.

Criticism of political Islam isn’t the same as criticism of the whole religion ffs.

[MUFC]

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

The two biggest extremists in Israel's government say they'll have their party (parties?) leave their coalition with Netanyahu if he accepts the ceasefire agreement with Hamas.

Seems win-win to me.

[Bluebird Hewitt]

Gonna leave this here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crggq0jygq6o

[MUFC]

 

[6666]

10 hours ago, Bluebird Hewitt said:

Gonna leave this here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crggq0jygq6o

Israel genuinely is scum.

[Redcanuck]

11 hours ago, Bluebird Hewitt said:

Gonna leave this here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crggq0jygq6o

So say Hamas,  Israel say they were targeting Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists operating from inside UNRWA facilities.

[6666]

Israel to slowly phase out the use of concentration camps. How nice of them. And obviously Nazi Israel are telling the truth.

[6666]

1 hour ago, Redcanuck said:

So say Hamas,  Israel say they were targeting Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists operating from inside UNRWA facilities.

Don't know how many dead civilians you need to see and how many of these same incidents need to happen to understand that Israel always rolls this "we were just targeting Hamas" line out regardless of who they kill. And imagine thinking that's even justified even if it were true. Which it isn't.

Still remember a few months ago how the pro-Israel crowd were screaming "of course Israel wouldn't target a hospital"... And now that they've targeted as many hospitals as possible, it's just normal and not another sign of them being completely batshit crazy.

You had to be in complete denial to support Israel to begin with but now you genuinely have to be borderline evil. At least a shithead like Ben Shapiro can admit that he wants genocide and he doesn't care how many innocent people die. The rest should give up the act.

[Redcanuck]

4 hours ago, 6666 said:

Don't know how many dead civilians you need to see and how many of these same incidents need to happen to understand that Israel always rolls this "we were just targeting Hamas" line out regardless of who they kill. And imagine thinking that's even justified even if it were true. Which it isn't.

Still remember a few months ago how the pro-Israel crowd were screaming "of course Israel wouldn't target a hospital"... And now that they've targeted as many hospitals as possible, it's just normal and not another sign of them being completely batshit crazy.

You had to be in complete denial to support Israel to begin with but now you genuinely have to be borderline evil. At least a shithead like Ben Shapiro can admit that he wants genocide and he doesn't care how many innocent people die. The rest should give up the act.

Hamas hides among civilians and uses them as human shields.  Any civilian deaths which really aren't that many are on Hamas and Hamas alone.

[6666]

12 hours ago, Redcanuck said:

Hamas hides among civilians and uses them as human shields.  Any civilian deaths which really aren't that many are on Hamas and Hamas alone.

You really are brainwashed. Also pretty disgusting with your "which really aren't that many" comment. But what else can we expect from someone that supports Israel and their decades long extremism.

Edited June 7 by 6666

[Danny]

12 hours ago, Redcanuck said:

Hamas hides among civilians and uses them as human shields.  Any civilian deaths which really aren't that many are on Hamas and Hamas alone.

Genuinely mental. A genocide is happening, Israel are willingly carrying out a genocide on men, women and children. And a lot of children.

[Azeem]

That is expected with every massacre/genocide/historical injustice, recently UN assembly passed a resolution to recognize Srebrenica as a genocide which is really nothing just a token gesture but the Serbian President had an epic meltdown lol