Cicero Posted August 28, 2019 Posted August 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said: It's not bollocks because KDB is a completely different position so you can't really compare assists. However, given I did say he was "better at his best" you can certainly make the argument about who you'd prefer on your team. If you ask me, I'd take Neymar of Barca on my team over those 2 any day, but would take Salah or De Bruyne over the Neymar of PSG. It is bollocks because you are saying KDB ‘doesn’t come close’ to Neymar at Barca. That is such an absurd statement. Sure they are players in different positions, so the only rational element to consider is their impact. KDB is essentially the most dangerous player in the league with the chances he creates. He’s been consistent at an elite level, club and country, for years now. To say he ‘isn’t close’ to Neymar at Barca, when Neymar had the luxury of Messi and Iniesta create the vast majority of his chances, is such a mental statement.
Guest Posted August 28, 2019 Posted August 28, 2019 Just now, Cicero said: It is bollocks because you are saying KDB ‘doesn’t come close’ to Neymar at Barca. That is such an absurd statement. Sure they are players in different positions, so the only rational element to consider is their impact. KDB is essentially the most dangerous player in the league with the chances he creates. He’s been consistent at an elite level, club and country, for years now. To say he ‘isn’t close’ to Neymar at Barca, when Neymar had the luxury of Messi and Iniesta create the vast majority of his chances, is such a mental statement. Well yes, its true that Neymar had assistance. It's actually why I criticize Suarez in recent times thinking that his stats are a bit skewed for all the support he gets, but lets not ignore his form for Brazil neither. How do you know he would be shit without Messi and Iniesta? The lazy answer is his PSG form, but come on. It's not that bad, the bad part comes from his attitude and lack of professionality missing games and whatnot. When he is on the field though, he delivers all the bloody time.
Cicero Posted August 28, 2019 Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Grizzly21 said: Well yes, its true that Neymar had assistance. It's actually why I criticize Suarez in recent times thinking that his stats are a bit skewed for all the support he gets, but lets not ignore his form for Brazil neither. How do you know he would be shit without Messi and Iniesta? The lazy answer is his PSG form, but come on. It's not that bad, the bad part comes from his attitude and lack of professionality missing games and whatnot. When he is on the field though, he delivers all the bloody time. Don’t put words in my mouth. Not once have I ever implied Neymar would be shit without Messi or Iniesta. You seem to have put Neymar’s time at Barca on such a high pedestal, even though the vast majority of his goals were dependent on the support of Messi and Iniesta. KDB is arguably the most dangerous player in the league and has been the quickest player to reach 50 assists. His impact on the team, isn’t dependent on anyone. It’s down to his own influence. So, you can clearly see why the statement ‘doesn’t come close’ is well and truly bollocks.
Subscriber Mel81x+ Posted August 28, 2019 Subscriber Posted August 28, 2019 12 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said: The lazy answer is his PSG form, but come on. It's not that bad, the bad part comes from his attitude and lack of professionality missing games and whatnot. When he is on the field though, he delivers all the bloody time. Unfortunately it also happens to be the only answer anyone can have. You're talking about a winger who was in a team with two of the most creative players of a generation on the pitch and add to that a striker who was excellent in the box and had passing capabilities too. The season where Messi, Suarez and Neymar were thriving isn't down to just one of them its all of them and then you had Iniesta and Busquets behind them to offer cover and redistribution into the attacking third. I don't think we have that many ultra-elite players on the planet right now but I wouldn't put Neymar in that bucket because even if we take his time at PSG, he had Cavani and Mbappe as support and even with them it didn't yield the results it should have and they aren't bad players by any stretch of the imagination. I actually think Cavani is better than Suarez sometimes and Mbappe isn't that bad either.
SirBalon Posted August 28, 2019 Author Posted August 28, 2019 Neymar would get into any XI in the Premier League and anywhere at any club in the world. I’m sure he’d thrive at City with KDB’s creativity.
Dr. Gonzo Posted August 28, 2019 Posted August 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Grizzly21 said: It's not bollocks because KDB is a completely different position so you can't really compare assists. However, given I did say he was "better at his best" you can certainly make the argument about who you'd prefer on your team. If you ask me, I'd take Neymar of Barca on my team over those 2 any day, but would take Salah or De Bruyne over the Neymar of PSG. The Neymar of Barca was playing alongside Messi though - so obviously he's going to look a hell of a lot better. I don't know if he'd get into any XI in the world - some systems require different things. Does he work hard enough to be in a side that plays with an intense high press that demands that even attackers put in a shift? Evidence at PSG suggests not. Evidence at Barca may suggest differently. The truth is the player's individual quality is probably somewhere in between both Neymars we've seen in Europe - and it's probably closer to the PSG form considering he went to PSG to get out of Messi's shadow. But yeah of course he looked better at Barca as a forward playing in a front 3 with the best player in the world.
Guest Posted August 28, 2019 Posted August 28, 2019 I actually watched the games and think it’s bollocks to say he was dependent on Messi and Iniesta. Maybe it made him look better, but he was still absolutely world class on his own.
El Profesor Posted August 28, 2019 Posted August 28, 2019 There's simply no comparison between Neymar and Firmino. Neymar is on a totallly diferent level in terms of talent. Any brazilian will tell you that.
El Profesor Posted August 28, 2019 Posted August 28, 2019 52 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said: I actually watched the games and think it’s bollocks to say he was dependent on Messi and Iniesta. Maybe it made him look better, but he was still absolutely world class on his own. I actually think the best version of Neymar was in the final months of 2015, when Messi was injured. He was amazing at Santiago Bernabeu against Real Madrid.
Cicero Posted August 28, 2019 Posted August 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, El Profesor said: I actually think the best version of Neymar was in the final months of 2015, when Messi was injured. He was amazing at Santiago Bernabeu against Real Madrid. Think you’re getting the time mixed up. Do you mean the beginning of the 2015/16 season? When Messi was injured and Barca spanked Real 4-0 at the Bernabeu?
El Profesor Posted August 28, 2019 Posted August 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, Cicero said: Think you’re getting the time mixed up. Do you mean the beginning of the 2015/16 season? When Messi was injured and Barca spanked Real 4-0 at the Bernabeu? That one. If I'm not wrong, in november 2015. Messi entered in the second half, when the game was already 3-0, I think. His goal against Villareal was around that time as well.
Cicero Posted August 28, 2019 Posted August 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, El Profesor said: That one. If I'm not wrong, in november 2015. Messi entered in the second half, when the game was already 3-0, I think. His goal against Villareal was around that time as well. Wow read your post wrong. Apologies you’re right!
LFCMadLad Posted August 28, 2019 Posted August 28, 2019 2 hours ago, El Profesor said: There's simply no comparison between Neymar and Firmino. Neymar is on a totallly diferent level in terms of talent. Any brazilian will tell you that. I dont think you understood my initial point regarding Firmino. Talent alone doesn't make you a great footballer. For Liverpool he is the glue, he enables everyone around him to flourish. His movement, pressing, work rate and the way he brings others into play is second to none. With Neymar instead we wouldn't be half as good. Any Liverpool fan will tell you that. So no, Neymar wouldn't walk into any first XI in the world because he wouldn't walk into ours.
El Profesor Posted August 28, 2019 Posted August 28, 2019 41 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said: I dont think you understood my initial point regarding Firmino. Talent alone doesn't make you a great footballer. For Liverpool he is the glue, he enables everyone around him to flourish. His movement, pressing, work rate and the way he brings others into play is second to none. With Neymar instead we wouldn't be half as good. Any Liverpool fan will tell you that. So no, Neymar wouldn't walk into any first XI in the world because he wouldn't walk into ours. Liverpool doesn´t need Neymar. I agree. Their front 3 works very well. In the end of day, we can discuss if Neymar would or wouldn´t make Liverpool better, but that team is already so strong that taking the risk would not make sense. The gains you´d get for replacing Firmino for Neymar wouldn´t justify the risks and this is why Liverpool has never had any interest in Neymar. But the fact Firmino makes much more sense for Liverpool´s context, doesn´t make him a better player than Neymar. There´s a significant difference in individual talent. That´s my point.
El Profesor Posted August 28, 2019 Posted August 28, 2019 Arthur mentioned in the discussions between Barcelona and PSG. This doesn´t surprise me, as Leonardo is brazilian and knows Arthur very well.
SirBalon Posted August 28, 2019 Author Posted August 28, 2019 1 hour ago, El Profesor said: Arthur mentioned in the discussions between Barcelona and PSG. This doesn´t surprise me, as Leonardo is brazilian and knows Arthur very well. Barça are absolutely mental if they use Arthur as an exchange coin. So two central midfielders down with Rakitić and Arthur? Maybe they are indeed planning to play Cicero's moronic first XI.
SirBalon Posted August 28, 2019 Author Posted August 28, 2019 This is all going in mental merrygoarounds... The latest at this hour of the night is being reported by Mundo Deportivo who say that French channel RMC have stated that PSG have refused Barça's latest offer of players (whoever they actually are) and money (whatever that sum actually is). According to RMC, Paris Saint-Germain say that the offer isn't what they're looking for and that it is impossible to come to an agreement with terms and conditions with the players offered before deadline day. If this is true, then Barcelona would have only one alternative if they desperately want to sign Neymar which is to fork out the whole sum of €220m which is what they value the Brazilian at. I really just want this to end now.
Harry Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 8 hours ago, El Profesor said: There's simply no comparison between Neymar and Firmino. Neymar is on a totallly diferent level in terms of talent. Any brazilian will tell you that. I think another thing here is some perceiving him to not be a team player and operate as an individual on the pitch. Given how well he slotted in to the system at Barca I don't really see it.
Harry Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 This Saga has been incredibly tedious. How many times have people flown to Paris for the one guy?
Subscriber Mel81x+ Posted August 29, 2019 Subscriber Posted August 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Harry said: This Saga has been incredibly tedious. How many times have people flown to Paris for the one guy? The good news is that in one more day this is all over.
Harry Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Mel81x said: The good news is that in one more day this is all over. Most likely... Gone to Barca for a squillion Next most likely... stays at PSG Last... Real Madrid
LFCMadLad Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 3 hours ago, Harry said: Most likely... Gone to Barca for a squillion Next most likely... stays at PSG Last... Real Madrid Preferably... His contract is ripped up and he goes commentating in North East Alaska
Subscriber CaaC (John)+ Posted August 29, 2019 Subscriber Posted August 29, 2019 Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Barcelona and Paris St-Germain have agreed on a transfer fee for 27-year-old Brazil forward Neymar, but negotiations continue over the terms of the deal. PSG want Barca's France forward Ousmane Dembele, 22, to be part of the package. (Mirror) However, Dembele's agent says the player will not be leaving the Nou Camp, which could lead to the collapse of Neymar's proposed move to Barcelona. (Daily Mail)
Subscriber Mel81x+ Posted August 29, 2019 Subscriber Posted August 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, CaaC (John) said: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Barcelona and Paris St-Germain have agreed on a transfer fee for 27-year-old Brazil forward Neymar, but negotiations continue over the terms of the deal. PSG want Barca's France forward Ousmane Dembele, 22, to be part of the package. (Mirror) However, Dembele's agent says the player will not be leaving the Nou Camp, which could lead to the collapse of Neymar's proposed move to Barcelona. (Daily Mail) And this is what its come to. One player forcing a move and one player forcing a stay. Barcelona should just stop this and let Real have a go now.
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