2019/20 Sack race

[Stan]

6 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Unless of course players like Kante and your favorite Jorginho really aren't all that?

It's more other players that Hazard has been carrying, not necessarily Kante. Players like Willian.

[Stan]

For what it's worth, I think Chelsea will struggle to 5th place in a battle with Arsenal/Man Utd. Like last season.

Ourselves, Wolves & Everton are in the best place to challenge the top 6 but I don't think it'll be as easy as some are making out. There's still 9 points minimum (the gap between 7th & 6th last season) to overturn. Much easier said than done.

[LFCMadLad]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

It's more other players that Hazard has been carrying, not necessarily Kante. Players like Willian.

Willian the Brazilian International wanted by Barcelona? Come on mate. Ok hes not the best player in the world but hes the least of their worries. 

Let's be real here. Chelsea are possibly the most successful English club of the last 15 years and yet suddenly 7th is a realistic expectation? 

Nah, if Chelsea finished 7th with any other manager barring Lampard there would be hell on. I think Chelsea fans are giving Lampard plenty of rope because of who he is. 

The same will probably happen within our fanbase when Gerrard inevitably takes over from Klopp. 

[Cicero]

8 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Really? Chelsea are the best in the world at sacking managers, regardless of how good/bad they have performed. Christ, even one of the most iconic managers of the modern era got sacked after winning the double 

I dont think Roman will give two fucks whether its Lampard or not. Chelsea finish 7th and hes gone. 

We’ve been notoriously known for sacking managers mid way through the season too. Conte and Sarri both threw the club and players under the bus, yet weren’t sacked until they expressed their desire to leave. 

Lampard has walked into a team without Hazard and a transfer ban. Think realistically he should be cut some slack, and this isn’t even considering sentimentals. 

15 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

 

Unless of course players like Kante and your favorite Jorginho really aren't all that?

Our midfield is the best thing we have going. Unfortunately, they can’t defend for our shaky defenders and score goals for our misfiring attackers for 38 games...

1 minute ago, LFCMadLad said:

Willian the Brazilian International wanted by Barcelona? Come on mate. Ok hes not the best player in the world but hes the least of their worries. 

Let's be real here. Chelsea are possibly the most successful English club of the last 15 years and yet suddenly 7th is a realistic expectation? 

Yes. Willian, the Brasil international, who is constantly ridiculed by Brasilians for being called up. Willian, the Chelsea player who averages 5 league goals a season. FIVE.

Yeah, he isn’t a worry at all 

Also, Lets not use Barca as a reference given their spending the past few seasons. 

 

[Stan]

Just now, LFCMadLad said:

Willian the Brazilian International wanted by Barcelona? Come on mate. Ok hes not the best player in the world but hes the least of their worries. 

Let's be real here. Chelsea are possibly the most successful English club of the last 15 years and yet suddenly 7th is a realistic expectation? 

Nah, if Chelsea finished 7th with any other manager barring Lampard there would be hell on. I think Chelsea fans are giving Lampard plenty of rope because of who he is. 

The same will probably happen within our fanbase when Gerrard inevitably takes over from Klopp. 

And I see nothing wrong with that. Too many managers don't get a lot of rope these days. It's a few losses and they're out. Fans even call for manager's heads before theyv'e even begun. It's about time managers got afforded more than just a season to put their stamp on a side. It's Lampard's first managerial job in the Premier League. The inexperience may affect him throughout the season but having a manager stay a decent amount of time and give a club a bit of stability isn't a bad thing. 

I'm not saying 7th is realistic and as said above I don't think they'll fall that low but if they fall that low, it may not be the worst thing in the world. Liverpool had a season or two without European football in the last 5/6 years and it doesn't seem to have harmed them much.

[LFCMadLad]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

And I see nothing wrong with that. Too many managers don't get a lot of rope these days. It's a few losses and they're out. Fans even call for manager's heads before theyv'e even begun. It's about time managers got afforded more than just a season to put their stamp on a side. It's Lampard's first managerial job in the Premier League. The inexperience may affect him throughout the season but having a manager stay a decent amount of time and give a club a bit of stability isn't a bad thing. 

I'm not saying 7th is realistic and as said above I don't think they'll fall that low but if they fall that low, it may not be the worst thing in the world. Liverpool had a season or two without European football in the last 5/6 years and it doesn't seem to have harmed them much.

Oh I totally agree, I think Lampard should be given time due to the circumstances you and @Cicero rightly pointed out and I'm also not a fan of sacking managers willy nilly. 

I just think Chelsea fans are going to be mightily disappointed if they finish 7th because Lampard or not, I think he'll get the bullet. 

It's unfair on Lampard really that hes walked into his first major managerial job working for the most trigger happy club owner in the world. 

[Cicero]

2 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Oh I totally agree, I think Lampard should be given time due to the circumstances you and @Cicero rightly pointed out and I'm also not a fan of sacking managers willy nilly. 

I just think Chelsea fans are going to be mightily disappointed if they finish 7th because Lampard or not, I think he'll get the bullet. 

It's unfair on Lampard really that hes walked into his first major managerial job working for the most trigger happy club owner in the world. 

Most rational Chelsea fans expect nothing, literally nothing, this season. 

[Bluewolf]

1 hour ago, Cicero said:

No prolific goal scorer. Two 32 year old wingers. Two unproven young winners. Reuben Loftus-Cheek out till the new year. Best player in preseason being fucking Barkley, who is notoriously known for his inconsistency. A very leaky defence. 

Add to that, we only finished 6 points off of 6th. We’ve lost Hazard, with everyone in the top 6 strengthening, and even Everton, Wolves + Leicester strengthening. 

So yeah, 7th-5th is the achievable target. 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Cicero said:

Well We’d be 8th then so I’d agree with you. 

Would still take something catastrophic for Lampard to be sacked however. 

 

1 hour ago, LFCMadLad said:

Really? Chelsea are the best in the world at sacking managers, regardless of how good/bad they have performed. Christ, even one of the most iconic managers of the modern era got sacked after winning the double 

I dont think Roman will give two fucks whether its Lampard or not. Chelsea finish 7th and hes gone. 

We have already spoken about this when they made the appointment... Abramovich won't care about sentiment when it comes down to it but I believe that where we finish won't be such an issue and will be more about how the fans are with him as the season goes on... If they turn on him when things are not going so well or we hit a rough patch results wise then that's when he will be in the most danger.. It's a learning curve for him given his lack of management experience and yes we have a lot of talent still in the squad but you can't just replace the likes of Hazard overnight so let's not underestimate his loss when it comes to results in our favour... Our defence needs shit loads of work looking at pre season performances but attacking wise we look pretty creative so although 4th is achievable if things go well I won't take that as a given this season and won't be disappointed if we are hovering around 6th-7th and have given the youth a good run in the side.. progress takes time and this will probably be the first season a manager has gone all out to have them as an integral part of the side and would not like to see him punished with an early exit because of that... 

[Dan+]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

For what it's worth, I think Chelsea will struggle to 5th place in a battle with Arsenal/Man Utd. Like last season.

Ourselves, Wolves & Everton are in the best place to challenge the top 6 but I don't think it'll be as easy as some are making out. There's still 9 points minimum (the gap between 7th & 6th last season) to overturn. Much easier said than done.

There was a point where I thought we could possibly break into the top six this season but I don't think so anymore. Not unless we pull something special out the bag this week.

[RandoEFC+]

Wolves, Everton or Leicester challenging for the top six is dependent on how much of a disaster the team's above have. I can see why people think they can smell blood with Chelsea having a transfer ban, Arsenal having no defence and United doing United things.

However, Wolves were 9 points behind United last season, 13 behind Arsenal and 15 behind Chelsea. Everton were a further 3 points behind Wolves and Leicester 2 points behind us. In fact, in terms of points, Leicester were as close to the relegation zone as they were to Arsenal in 5th, just to put the gaps into some perspective.

I would say with Wolves having Europa League and a relatively quiet summer, I'm more worried about Leicester than them this season in the battle for 7th and maybe more.

Back to Lampard though, if Chelsea dropped 15-20 points they'd be in the same ballpark as the aforementioned trio. I think it's very possible that if you look back at last season and took Hazard out of that side, then they would indeed lose that many points, so I think Cicero has a point.

[Dan+]

I think the reason we're quite fancied is because of how well we finished the season. From the point Rodgers took over to the end of the season we were 3rd in the table behind only Man City and Liverpool who both won every game in that period. There was always a feeling this squad wasn't performing to its potential under Puel and under Rodgers I think we've looked noticeably better. Our form under him so far has been top six level.

There's a good case really for any of Arsenal, Manchester United or Chelsea having shockers but none of it is a given.

Chelsea, along with Aston Villa I think are the hardest calls to make in the league.

Funny you mention Wolves there Rando - they've actually done more business than us. We've been quieter than I thought we'd be. Lots of talk at the start of the window from well respected people that we were going to be a serious spender - we've signed three players, one of them likely to be cover for this year and one of them securing somebody permanently who we had on loan, which is something both Wolves & Everton have done as well, although in fairness I think Tielemans is the biggest coup of those signings. The only significant addition to what we finished last year with is Ayoze Perez, and we've lost Maguire.

Wolves also have quite a tough qualifier against Torino which I really wouldn't be shocked to see them go out to so they, like Burnley, may be out before September. They're probably going a bit under the radar for me.

[RandoEFC+]

Some value in this market right now I'd say (Sky Bet)

Bruce 7/2

Hodgson 4/1

Gracia 5/1

Lampard, Solskjaer, Hassenhuttl 10/1

[cb_96]

Reckon the transfer window shutting earlier is gonna lend itself to earlier sackings? Like managers don’t have till the end of August to rectify mistakes they might’ve made, so teams could cut and run earlier? Seen it in the championship with Huddersfield, wonder if a Prem side could follow

[LFCMike]

Gracia has gone

[RandoEFC+]

On 21/07/2019 at 18:50, RandoEFC said:

The Watford manager as a cheeky outsider. For all of their hype last season and cringeworthy tweeting from their official club account about being above Marco Silva in the league table, they finished in the bottom half with 2 wins in their last 9. Yes they got to the FA Cup final but lost by the heaviest margin in 100 years. 

Their opening fixtures aren't horrendous, so if they get a dodgy start, you can see the owners starting to ask questions.

Dont know what the odds were but for once, I called something right. Still shocked he's gone after 4 games. To be fair Watford are a bit of a circus club whose chop and change approach to the manager's seat is unsustainable and eventually it will catch up with them and see them go down. Think Gracia has been very harshly done by here.

[cb_96]

16/1 pre season Gracia was

[LFCMike]

12 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Dont know what the odds were but for once, I called something right. Still shocked he's gone after 4 games. To be fair Watford are a bit of a circus club whose chop and change approach to the manager's seat is unsustainable and eventually it will catch up with them and see them go down. Think Gracia has been very harshly done by here.

I think this bad run of form goes back to the end of last season though doesn't it? Fair enough they reached the FA Cup final but that was an embarrassing defeat. They've taken some other heavy defeats over that period in the league too

Edit: I've just checked and it's two wins in 11 league games going back to last season. Those two wins were against Fulham and Huddersfield

[Batard]

I'm surprised at the timing to be honest. I'm not surprised he was booted though 

[CaaC (John)+]

That was a quick appointment, must have been on the cards.

Watford: Quique Sanchez Flores reappointed after Javi Gracia exit

Watford has reappointed Quique Sanchez Flores as manager after announcing the exit of Javi Gracia.

Sanchez was in charge of Watford for the 2015-16 campaign before leaving at the end of the season.

Fellow Spaniard Gracia, whose coaching team have also left, had been in charge since January 2018 - making him the first Hornets boss to last more than one full season since 2013.

The appointment of Flores was confirmed 30 minutes later.

FULL REPORT

[Dan+]

I know Watford get a lot of stick but I do think there's method in the madness, they always have their replacement lined up. They've started exactly how they finished last season - shockingly.

They were alright under Flores as well last time. I thnk they'll be fine again despite the shocking start.

[RandoEFC+]

1 hour ago, Dan said:

I know Watford get a lot of stick but I do think there's method in the madness, they always have their replacement lined up. They've started exactly how they finished last season - shockingly.

They were alright under Flores as well last time. I thnk they'll be fine again despite the shocking start.

Didn't they sack Flores though? Are they going to try and get Silva back next time they go on a bad run of form?

[Dan+]

11 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Didn't they sack Flores though? Are they going to try and get Silva back next time they go on a bad run of form?

It's a pretty drastic run of form though. They've won twice in six months, against two of the most abject sides this league has seen recently.

No idea why he left to be honest. Seems like a mutual agreement. I think Watford are just happy enough to change their managers and have a list of them lined up at any point in time. Find it weird how few players they bought in the summer though - it's not a bad squad but they're starting to age a bit.

[cb_96]

What kind of style can we expect from Flores? Can’t quite remember what he was like in the previous spell other than a game at Southampton I went to where they were very poor in a 2-0 defeat

[Batard]

Get a bet on Silva ASAP 

[RandoEFC+]

2 hours ago, Batard said:

Get a bet on Silva ASAP 

I wouldn't. The odds have gone well short and our board will give him a long time yet. 

That said, the alternatives don't look that numerous. Someone who is in a relegation fight is more likely to pull the trigger first though. Maybe a Newcastle, Brighton, Southampton.

Don't be shocked if Wolves start asking themselves the question either. They're having an even bigger mare than we are and while I think that would be crazy and harsh on Santo, you only have to look as far as Adkins, Hughton and others to see how far the "but he got us promoted" argument gets you these days.