Referees/VAR in the Premier League

[Dr. Gonzo]

38 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

Read that one VAR official this weekend was a bloke that’s never reffed a Premier League game but has only refereed NINE Football League games ever. 

That’s farcical. 

That's mental

[DeadLinesman]

58 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

Read that one VAR official this weekend was a bloke that’s never reffed a Premier League game but has only refereed NINE Football League games ever. 

That’s farcical. 

That can’t be right, surely. Have you got the source for that?

[Dr. Gonzo]

7 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

That can’t be right, surely. Have you got the source for that?

Well this was the VAR ref for Arsenal-Crystal Palace:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarred_Gillett

He's only done nine football league matches in England. The rest of his career was in Australia (and as part of an exchange he's done various Asian league refereeing - which tbh isn't that great of a standard of officiating).

Edited October 28, 2019 by Dr. Gonzo

[Stan]

7 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

That can’t be right, surely. Have you got the source for that?

Might be right. For our Newcastle game the VAR ref was very inexperienced. Think only a handful of PL games. 

[Stan]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

Well this was the VAR ref for Arsenal-Crystal Palace:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarred_Gillett

He's only done nine football league matches in England. The rest of his career was in Australia.

He's actually decent in Australia. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

Might be right. For our Newcastle game the VAR ref was very inexperienced. Think only a handful of PL games. 

I think I'm beginning to understand why I disagree with VAR referees so much. The other guy did matches in Australia and various Asian leagues, whenever I watch Asian football for international qualifiers I'm always thinking "lol where did they find these officials." And now I'm hearing of these inexperienced VAR refs and I've seen some VAR decisions and thought "lol where did they find these officials."

[Dan+]

22 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

This is just an absolute joke now making what is supposedly a premier product look Mickey Mouse. 

I’m just not watching other games anymore, as soon as I read VAR controversy I think “fuck that I’m tired of this shit now” and I move on. 

Do you reckon they will change it or tweak it because it’s become an absolute farce. 

The single worst thing about it is how much it's taken over discussion. That isn't the fault of those discussing it either.

[Smiley Culture]

2 hours ago, DeadLinesman said:

That can’t be right, surely. Have you got the source for that?

A bit more digging and he’s actually reffed at A-League level in Australia, but the fella’s name is Jarred Gillett, whose only reffed 9 professional games here. 

Scott Ledger, the VAR official for Watford v Bournemouth appears to have never actually refereed a game and has only ever been a linesman, from what I can see on the Internet. 

[Dan+]

5 hours ago, Rick said:

They just need to take away the “clear and obvious error” per of the equation. We’ve got officials looking at replays and deciding not to make the truly right call, and for what reason? Because it was convincing enough to fool the on field ref?...that makes no sense and we are seeing these types of calls every single week. That’s what frustrates me the most, the fact that the VAR doesn’t feel they have the sufficient power to overrule the ref. 

It's absolutely mental. It's like buying a car but not being allowed to drive it.

[Storts]

3 hours ago, Smiley Culture said:

Read that one VAR official this weekend was a bloke that’s never reffed a Premier League game but has only refereed NINE Football League games ever. 

That’s farcical. 

Varcical*

[Dr. Gonzo]

You know the problem probably lies in the hierarchy of referees. Why do I say this? Because Mike fucking Riley is the managing director of PGMOL. Mike Riley was a terrible referee - his career as official was marred with a mix of incompetence and controversy, why the fuck is he in charge of implementing VAR in this country (probably the biggest structural change to the sport since the backpass rule)?

Step one to fixing VAR would be binning off Mike Riley,  he should never have been the managing director of PGMOL, it's a disgrace he's been there this long, and he's certainly not the right kind of mind we want to have implementing VAR in the country. Secondly, we should compare how it's implemented here (after this season with our current rules) to literally every other league that uses VAR around the world. Then they need to look at what leagues have the lowest "error" rates with VAR and investigate the differences between their VAR interpretations and our own VAR interpretations.

Binning off VAR is an easier solution, but it's here to stay. So now we should be looking at how to use it as a tool to increase referee competence and fan's competence in the officials. Rather than what it is now, which is a fairly divisive implementation of video review that many of us question "what's the point of this?" outside of when it's used for offside decisions.

[LFCMike]

Strong words from Chris Kamara here on yesterday's disallowed Firmino goal

“I’m not happy with it, I’ll be 100 per cent honest with you," he said on Sky Sports' Goals on Sunday.

“In my opinion this is made up, this has been made up by somebody at Stockley Park who’s decided they don’t want this to be a goal, and that is my opinion, and that is my honest opinion.

 

“From the naked eye you don’t need that calibration of dots or whatever to tell you, look at Tyrone Mings’ knee, Firmino is onside, right.

“So you look at the yellow line and there’s a black line there as well. So they’ve done that there - that tells you that he was onside.

“So they change it round now to make it that Firmino is the black line and Tyrone Mings is the yellow line, as you can see now.”

Kamara even held up a piece of paper to the screen to prove that the VAR lines drawn weren't straight.

“But the line that comes up towards Firmino isn’t straight - that’s not a straight line, that’s an angled line," he continued.

“I put a piece of paper to it this morning haven’t I and I showed you - that is not a straight line.

“Get your rulers out, get your spirit level out. That red line is not a straight line.

“Now, somebody has decided to do that and I think they should be outed because that is not offside for me.

“That’s why it’s not a straight line, look at that paper, look how angled it is, that’s not a straight line.”

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/chris-kamara-claims-var-official-20801816

[Dr. Gonzo]

Tbh I think less of people that like VAR

[LFCMadLad]

VAR it's a crock of shit. 

They cant even get offside decisions right with the help of replays. Somebody tell me that its improved things... I fancy a laugh. 

It's even making them who defend it look stupid. 

Edited November 3, 2019 by LFCMadLad

[Stan]

Sounded like bad usage of it today so won't defend it much

 

[LFCMadLad]

24 minutes ago, Stan said:

Sounded like bad usage of it today so won't defend it much

 

Not just today, literally every single day it's been in use. Cant even get offside decisions right now 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Tbh I think less of people that like VAR

They want the sport to die. Quite literally.

[Stan]

13 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Not just today, literally every single day it's been in use. Cant even get offside decisions right now 

Nope. Not every single day. I'll happily criticise it where I see fit like today but every time it's been used? Nah.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Tbh I think less of people that like VAR

Actually, the pro-VAR's reminds me of the pro-Chavistas and pro-Maduro's in South America. People like Maradona might like the politics in Venezuela because they like governing style but... look at Venezuela. Currently in a humanitarian crisis with hundreds of thousand of emigrants and no resources. You're not gonna tell me with a straight face that it's OK in the state that it's in.

VAR ruining the sport just like Chavez ruined Venezuela.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Grizzly21 said:

Actually, the pro-VAR's reminds me of the pro-Chavistas and pro-Maduro's in South America. People like Maradona might like the politics in Venezuela because they like governing style but... look at Venezuela. Currently in a humanitarian crisis with hundreds of thousand of emigrants and no resources. You're not gonna tell me with a straight face that it's OK in the state that it's in.

VAR ruining the sport just like Chavez ruined Venezuela.

I just think referees are idiots and shouldn’t be given more tools to be bad at their jobs. They should be replaced by computers ASAP. But I don’t think VAR is as bad as dictators 

[Guest]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

I just think referees are idiots and shouldn’t be given more tools to be bad at their jobs. They should be replaced by computers ASAP. But I don’t think VAR is as bad as dictators 

I agree, but there is much worse to it than just the referees getting decisions wrong or right. 

Football doesn't feel natural anymore and it's just sad. 

I'm not sure how they will be replaced by computers. I'm sure there is a way but that's another technology that we're still not too close to I think.

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

I agree, but there is much worse to it than just the referees getting decisions wrong or right. 

Football doesn't feel natural anymore and it's just sad. 

I'm not sure how they will be replaced by computers. I'm sure there is a way but that's another technology that we're still not too close to I think.

I have never wanted automation more after living with VAR before. If all referees could be made unemployed that’s just such a massive advancement for humanity as well as the sport.

But we’d need significant advances in AI technology 

[Mel81x+]

I was listening to Alan Shearer talk today about how they were told something completely different when the tech was demonstrated versus how its being used and this all goes back to standardization and laying some process in place which completely over-rules the ref. I think everyone can agree that refs have had some form of bias every time they have taken to the pitch so bring an independent committee in, give them the power to overturn the ref on the pitch and then watch the refs actually have to shape up. They've had zero repercussions for as long as the game has gone on because people want this 'natural' process which allows them to pick the scapegoat of the day versus actually rectify the problem. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I have never wanted automation more after living with VAR before. If all referees could be made unemployed that’s just such a massive advancement for humanity as well as the sport.

But we’d need significant advances in AI technology 

I'm not sure how I would feel about that to be honest. I feel that would also kill the spectacle as it would also take time to decide on the "clear and obvious".

Regardless, it's a different technology that would still take time from now to achieve.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Tbh I think less of people that like VAR

I don't think anyone likes it at the moment mate. I think people who support VAR hope it will improve. My personal opinion is that i think it will improve but it will take time. It's been around for a few years but don't watch those leagues so I am basing my decision on the premier League. I do that because basing it on other leagues is hear say because I haven't seen it. So it would be irrational to base a decision on what I haven't seen. There are a number of issues with it. The first is penaltys not being overturned. This needs to change because otherwise what is the point in having it. I would feel confident that this will get better as I think they will lower the threshold and go in what is more likely. I would feel confident that a competent referee with the benefit of a replay that can be slowed down would make the right decision more often than not if they are allowed to go on what is more likely and I think decisions will improve.  At the moment they're not it has to be clear and obvious. 

Var gets most offsides right the problem on the weekends was that the linesman flagged and var couldn't measure it so they had to go with the original decision. It was the linesmans fault not var.

The other issue is interpretion. Fans and pundits aren't trained. Referees are trained to take into account variables. So sometimes fans and pundits are wrong  and the referees are right and var did what it was supposed to even though many think it didn't. e.g last year I thought Burnley should have got a penalty against us for a push. Most people did. However what people didn't take into account was the Burney player leaned into out defender and so he had to push back. So it wasn't a penalty. Fans aren't the trained eye.

However I would never argue var has been a success so far however I hope it can be.