MUFC Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 https://www.teamtalk.com/news/carragher-admits-liverpool-made-massive-mistake-backing-suarez-in-evra-racism-row
The Artful Dodger Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 Maybe too late but some contrition is welcome. The whole saga turned into a farce but Liverpool really let themselves down on it, the t-shirt thing was just incredibly poor judgment.
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted October 22, 2019 Subscriber Posted October 22, 2019 Things have changed a lot in a few years. This was only seen as controversial at the time but if it happened now you'd get absolute outrage.
Administrator Stan Posted October 22, 2019 Administrator Posted October 22, 2019 Good to see an apology for it. It was incredibly poor judgement at the time especially given it was after the ban. Especially as Evra makes the same point - if it was while the investigation was ongoing then fair enough. But it was after the decision had been made to punish him. Why now, I wonder, though?
Subscriber Mel81x+ Posted October 22, 2019 Subscriber Posted October 22, 2019 11 minutes ago, Stan said: Why now, I wonder, though? I attribute that to the fact that Evra was on MNF with him discussing a lot of things so it might be a by-product of that meeting. Agree that the apology was long overdue however. In hindsight and what he said as part of the apology it may have come off as supporting his team-mate but it was certainly wrong and I am glad he did apologize.
The Artful Dodger Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 Whether he was behind the idea or not, the biggest culprit was Dalglish. You can almost understand, though not justify, Suarez's close mates doing something they perceive to be right but Dalglish should have cut them down. They could have simply said, 'we don't agree with the decision but want to move on' and left it there. Grown adults, with a 60 year old at the helm wearing stupid t-shirts. I think that was Liverpool's lowest moment, and thankfully Dalglish was soon out the door.
Rick Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 In retrospect, it was a terrible error of judgement from all involved. I was in that same crowd at the time mind, was clouded by wanting to support my club. Only after the fact, everybody (including myself) now see the terrible message that it put out. That wasn’t intentional btw. The club and supporters weren’t supporting Luis Suarez, the racist. We were supporting Luis Suarez, the Liverpool player. That doesn’t justify the result of the actions though, and it will absolutely go down as one of the darkest days in certainly my time as a supporter.
Dr. Gonzo Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, Rick said: In retrospect, it was a terrible error of judgement from all involved. I was in that same crowd at the time mind, was clouded by wanting to support my club. Only after the fact, everybody (including myself) now see the terrible message that it put out. That wasn’t intentional btw. The club and supporters weren’t supporting Luis Suarez, the racist. We were supporting Luis Suarez, the Liverpool player. That doesn’t justify the result of the actions though, and it will absolutely go down as one of the darkest days in certainly my time as a supporter. Yeah same as how I feel. And as time has gone on it’s been clear that Suarez was guilty and just isn’t a great person overall - it’s a shame the team and fans backed him, really.
Subscriber Mel81x+ Posted October 22, 2019 Subscriber Posted October 22, 2019 If anyone is interested in the actual conversation from the article.
Danny Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 It was strange to see so many people backing Suarez’ out and out racism, I know it wasn’t during the time of social media outrage but it was not by any means a time where racism was accepted.
Subscriber Dan+ Posted October 22, 2019 Subscriber Posted October 22, 2019 Evra actually comes across very well.
Subscriber Mel81x+ Posted October 23, 2019 Subscriber Posted October 23, 2019 10 hours ago, Dan said: Evra actually comes across very well. When I watched it I said to myself this isn't the same person who did what they did to that chicken leg online. He actually sounds like a really nice and grounded bloke.
Subscriber Dan+ Posted October 23, 2019 Subscriber Posted October 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Mel81x said: When I watched it I said to myself this isn't the same person who did what they did to that chicken leg online. He actually sounds like a really nice and grounded bloke. Exactly what I thought. This bizarre online persona and the whole fall out at Marseille didn't give me the best impression of him but he actually came across as really genuine and sensible on the subject. Pleasantly surprised at that.
Spike Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 Well it was nice of them to support their friend and teammate they did it in a very clumsy manner. I still don’t believe that Suarez was intentionally being racist given the nature of South-American culture and language. However that doesn’t matter because Evra interpreted it as racist, and the duality of the scenario became very defensive for both parties. Everything could have easily been resolve like adults if Suarez had apologised, ‘What I said from where I am from is not racist, however that does not excuse my words because outside of the context of my culture the words are very easily interpreted otherwise, the pain I have caused Mr Evra is unacceptable. I have learned from this experience and hope to have a professional and respectable relationship with Mr. Evra. The passion and heat of the moment takes people to places that sometimes shouldn’t go, or necessarily would, I am taking steps to be a more reasonable and calm minded man, on and off the field.’ Of course he can’t actually use the words ‘I am sorry’ because when a person does that in the media for some reason it makes them more guilty in the eyes of the public, why that is, I don’t know. People just need to take responsibility for their actions even if their actions have unintended of surprising consequences. It doesn’t matter if the intention betrays the interpretation, a man needs to take responsibility regardless.
Dr. Gonzo Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Spike said: Well it was nice of them to support their friend and teammate they did it in a very clumsy manner. I still don’t believe that Suarez was intentionally being racist given the nature of South-American culture and language. However that doesn’t matter because Evra interpreted it as racist, and the duality of the scenario became very defensive for both parties. Everything could have easily been resolve like adults if Suarez had apologised, ‘What I said from where I am from is not racist, however that does not excuse my words because outside of the context of my culture the words are very easily interpreted otherwise, the pain I have caused Mr Evra is unacceptable. I have learned from this experience and hope to have a professional and respectable relationship with Mr. Evra. The passion and heat of the moment takes people to places that sometimes shouldn’t go, or necessarily would, I am taking steps to be a more reasonable and calm minded man, on and off the field.’ Of course he can’t actually use the words ‘I am sorry’ because when a person does that in the media for some reason it makes them more guilty in the eyes of the public, why that is, I don’t know. People just need to take responsibility for their actions even if their actions have unintended of surprising consequences. It doesn’t matter if the intention betrays the interpretation, a man needs to take responsibility regardless. Didn't it turn out that Suarez told Evra he kicked him "because he's black" - and when Evra was like "wot m8?" Suarez then called him negrito like 9 times over and over? Or at least that was Evra's version of events and Suarez admitted to calling him "negrito" but said "hey that's not racist in Spanish" and "also I'm part black." How the club handled things was clumsy as fuck, because after the match Suarez told Dalglish and the club he hadn't said anything racist and it was bollocks, basically. But then at the tribunal hearing, he then admitted to saying the racial slur - but contested that it wasn't racist. I don't know if he admitted saying it 9 times or not... but I also don't see why Evra would lie about that, particularly when Suarez has basically confirmed at least part of Evra's version of events. And if you read the actual ruling from that case, they say they can't say conclusively what was said or what wasn't said. But they said based on the evidence it "probably" happened - probably from Suarez corroborating a part of what Evra had said. At the time I didn't believe Evra's version of events because... why the fuck would you call someone a racial slur multiple times if you weren't being racist? I wanted to believe that Suarez wasn't a racist because... it would be weird for him to be playing alongside black players and also saying shite like that. Also he played for us. At the same time, he knows he's not in Spain or South America - you can't just go around saying you're going to kick certain players because they're black. Regardless of whether or not it's "not racist" where you come from - and he should have at least had the self awareness to understand that he's in a different culture in a league with players from all over the world that don't have the same culture. But if he said the "negrito" part over and over, like Evra claimed, then even if that word "isn't racist"... it's hard to say what Suarez said wasn't racist. It's weird though that Suarez did make the admission to using those words (particularly when nobody else at the stadium could corroborate Evra's version of events)… but he also categorically denied any wrongdoing and didn't apologise to Evra. I don't know if Suarez is actually a racist (I wouldn't be surprised though, if the second uncorroborated part of what Evra said is true - which at this point, I assume it is), but I do think he's got anger and mental problems (at least when he's on the pitch). Fantastic player, but an utter arsehole. But yeah, I agree with you - it would have been better if he'd come forward and said sorry and that he didn't mean to say anything as racist as he did. But that isn't what he did and ultimately our club tried to support him in a pretty stupid way.
Spike Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 Just now, Dr. Gonzo said: Didn't it turn out that Suarez told Evra he kicked him "because he's black" - and when Evra was like "wot m8?" Suarez then called him negrito like 9 times over and over? Or at least that was Evra's version of events and Suarez admitted to calling him "negrito" but said "hey that's not racist in Spanish" and "also I'm part black." How the club handled things was clumsy as fuck, because after the match Suarez told Dalglish and the club he hadn't said anything racist and it was bollocks, basically. But then at the tribunal hearing, he then admitted to saying the racial slur - but contested that it wasn't racist. I don't know if he admitted saying it 9 times or not... but I also don't see why Evra would lie about that, particularly when Suarez has basically confirmed at least part of Evra's version of events. And if you read the actual ruling from that case, they say they can't say conclusively what was said or what wasn't said. But they said based on the evidence it "probably" happened - probably from Suarez corroborating a part of what Evra had said. At the time I didn't believe Evra's version of events because... why the fuck would you call someone a racial slur multiple times if you weren't being racist? I wanted to believe that Suarez wasn't a racist because... it would be weird for him to be playing alongside black players and also saying shite like that. Also he played for us. At the same time, he knows he's not in Spain or South America - you can't just go around saying you're going to kick certain players because they're black. Regardless of whether or not it's "not racist" where you come from - and he should have at least had the self awareness to understand that he's in a different culture in a league with players from all over the world that don't have the same culture. But if he said the "negrito" part over and over, like Evra claimed, then even if that word "isn't racist"... it's hard to say what Suarez said wasn't racist. It's weird though that Suarez did make the admission to using those words (particularly when nobody else at the stadium could corroborate Evra's version of events)… but he also categorically denied any wrongdoing and didn't apologise to Evra. I don't know if Suarez is actually a racist (I wouldn't be surprised though, if the second uncorroborated part of what Evra said is true - which at this point, I assume it is), but I do think he's got anger and mental problems (at least when he's on the pitch). Fantastic player, but an utter arsehole. But yeah, I agree with you - it would have been better if he'd come forward and said sorry and that he didn't mean to say anything as racist as he did. But that isn't what he did and ultimately our club tried to support him in a pretty stupid way. I think people easily forget that two people can have to huge difference experiences of the same event. Suarez can simeutanously have said nothing racist and something incredibly racist at the same time, because of how people experience things differently. Hands down he shouldn't have said anything like that, even if in the context of his culture it isn't racist. He couldn't be so stupid to not realise that he was saying something offensive, he knew what he was doing, he was trying to unnerve Evra. But hey, maybe he is that stupid, I'd believe it. The man certainly doesn't have the appearance of one with a towering intellect. I don't think he necessarily hates black people or has any sort of prejudice against them but that doesn't absolve him of saying and doing what he did. Just because I feel one way, and act another doesn't make me impervious to reaction of how I act or feel. I could be married to a Pakistani woman, love her with all my heart but it'd still be committting a racist act if I yelled out 'I HATE PAKIS'; even if it was a joke. I think people 'doublethink' themselves into believing they weren't being racist because they believe since they aren't racist they can't commit a rascist act. Context matters so much, a racey joke can go over well with friends regardless of race or origin but with strangers it could be interpreted as hate speach.
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