Moderator Tommy Posted January 10, 2020 Moderator Posted January 10, 2020 The Kinks were better than the Beatles, and their lyrics are way more profound and overall better.
Subscriber CaaC (John)+ Posted January 10, 2020 Subscriber Posted January 10, 2020 Bob the Builder, Postman Pat and Thomas the Tank Engine, got addicted to the opening songs watching our grandsons growing up and watching the latter. On a serious note, I loved the Beatles but did not like listening to Ringo singing, especially these songs... Octopus's Garden (Abbey Road) Act Naturally (Help) What Goes On (Rubber Soul) Yellow Submarine (Revolver)
Panflute Posted January 10, 2020 Author Posted January 10, 2020 10 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said: Is the Sex Pistols opinion unpopular, seems to be the general consensus on them? Very limited musically but can't help but love Rotten's energy and lyrics, would have been great to be young when they came out, after years of 'Glam rock' bollocks and bloated prog rock disappearing up its own arse, just pure youthful bounce music. I guess it differs. I'm not really aware of their critical reception beyond their reputation, but growing up I had a lot of friends who were into metal, punk and other alternative stuff, and I remember them being venerated by many.
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 10, 2020 Posted January 10, 2020 Didn't the Sex Pistols kick out the guy who wrote most of their songs (and had most of the musical ability in the band) just to replace him with Sid Vicious, a guy who couldn't even play? Glenn Matlock I think his name was (or is)… but I quite like the song "Pretty Vacant" by the Sex Pistols & he wrote that. But they're really just the first boy band ever - all manufactured by a fashion designer. Sort of like Velvet Underground & Andy Warhol, but less talented...
tlr Posted January 10, 2020 Posted January 10, 2020 15 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said: Queen are absolutely awful, make music for bad weddings. Not fond of a lot of their better-known works (I would happily never hear Bohemian Rhapsody ever again), but their output towards the end of Mercury's life was superb. Innuendo is a fine album, and the sheer defiance Mercury had to keep on working and recording songs like These Are the Days of Our Lives and The Show Must Go On is genuinely incredible. 14 hours ago, DeadLinesman said: The Beatles were meh. Same. I actually quite like some of their generic pop stuff like I Wanna Hold Your Hand but I have always felt that to truly get them you had to be there as a teenager in the 60s watching them change the face of the entire planet. Same for people like Bob Dylan and David Bowie.
The Artful Dodger Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 Dylan and the Beatles are underrated if anyhing. I hate it when morons like them.
Machado Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 On 15/12/2019 at 13:40, Panflute said: Kanye West is literally mentally challenged but music critics interpret his zaniness as brilliance because they don't want to appear racist. Kayne brought new elements to a creatively burned out era of hip hop, pretty much keeping the genre interesting and letting it evolve from the trite gangster posturing. I find that contempt for his contributions is colored by people's opinions about him as person.
Machado Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 On 10/01/2020 at 10:47, Tommy said: The Kinks were better than the Beatles, and their lyrics are way more profound and overall better. I've explored the Kinks quite a bit and I'll give you one thing - they never seemed to revert to nonsense lyrics. Ray Davies is as good of a songwriter as any. At the onset The Beatles were highly motivated to be commercial and to make as much money as possible. Songs about girls in love were plentiful as they knew the young teen girls loved them. Once they got over that phase they had much better lyrics, diversity and they left bands like The Kinks and The Beach Boys behind. When it comes to versatility it's hard to argue against the Beatles. Also, The Kinks had no good singers (might be unpopular).
Machado Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 Oasis’s popularity makes sense only when put in the background of the mediocrity that was mid 90's British music. Britpop as a cultural movement sucked for various reasons but mostly because the music was bad.
Spike Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 Britpop isn't a genre, but rather a cultural phenomenon akin to American alternative-rock. For instance Blur's early work compared to their later material are different, moving from 'Kinks-esque' guitar-pop to lo-fi alternative-rock. I don't think the music sucked at all, Oasis, Blur, Suede, The Verve, James, and Pulp were fanastic bands. Pulp, I feel as times has passed have stood out to have created the most interesting music of the bands, followed by Blur and James. Sex Pistols weren't a boy-band at all and that opinion is popular; I hear it all the time these days. It was a Malcolm McLaren project, with Lydon and Matlock being the driving creative force. If they were a boy-band there would be dancing, a baker's dozen producers, and they wouldn't have written their own music. 'Nevermind the Bollocks' is a fine album and a landmark statement in music. Lydon's 'Public Image Ltd.' is a testement to his creative ability. The Clash while far more talented became far more a 'pop' band than the Sex Pistols ever were. 'London Calling' is a perfect album but I struggle to be interested in the rest of their catalogue which just sounds like to me like milquetoast 'punk' and 'two-tone'. The Ramones are very mediocre band. They've a few iconic song but have largely been an image over substance band. The Red Hot Chili Peppers are held back by Kiedis' poor vocals and they were never the same after achieving a crossover hit with 'Under The Bridge' and largely abandoning their metal-cum-funk style. Compare 'Higher Ground' and 'Snow (hey oh)'. Faith No More were always better anyway.
Mpache Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 Australian, English and Canadian artists are way better than American.
Mpache Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 Bachata is better than Reggaeton. Peruvian music (yes, even the panflutes) is not bad at all even if you don't look at it from a cultural standpoint. Blur's best song is Coffee and TV. No Te Va Gustar is better than Soda Stereo @Berserker
Berserker Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 22 minutes ago, Vader said: Bachata is better than Reggaeton. Peruvian music (yes, even the panflutes) is not bad at all even if you don't look at it from a cultural standpoint. Blur's best song is Coffee and TV. No Te Va Gustar is better than Soda Stereo @Berserker Crazy, ban him!!
Panflute Posted January 14, 2020 Author Posted January 14, 2020 I realized I could do an entire long-read of opinions on Metallica. Such a lovely band to feel conflicted about.
Devil-Dick Willie Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Panflute said: I realized I could do an entire long-read of opinions on Metallica. Such a lovely band to feel conflicted about. They were great. Then their driving force died. Then they were still pretty good for an album. Then they released one final great album but at the cost of their creative souls. Then they were one shade or another of shit after the black album.
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said: They were great. Then their driving force died. Then they were still pretty good for an album. Then they released one final great album but at the cost of their creative souls. Then they were one shade or another of shit after the black album. I don't think this is an unpopular opinion. I think this is pretty fucking spot on. Although that "final great album" is probably my least favourite of their great albums. Seems like they traded in a lot for what a lot of people think is their best produced album. But imo the best production sound to me of that era of Metallica is Master of Puppets - I disagree with a lot of people that think it's their magnum opus. But I think it's produced really really well. And the songs are still very very thrashy and I love how the songs have lots of transitions to different sounding sections yet they're so seemless sounding in the transitions - but that's more about song composition than production tbh. And maybe that's clouding my vision there. Either way... Kill 'em All & Ride the Lightning FTW. Although I think my overall favourite debut album for thrash would have to be either Bonded by Blood by Exodus or Show No Mercy by Slayer (although that's arguably not thrash, but Slayer's in the big 4 so fuck it I'm throwing it in with thrash).
Devil-Dick Willie Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 My Metallica album ranking looks like Ride the lightning The Black album (though I can't stand enter sandman and I've heard the unforgiven too many times) And Justice for all Kill em all Master of puppets Shit.
Panflute Posted January 15, 2020 Author Posted January 15, 2020 14 hours ago, Devil-Dick Willie said: They were great. Then their driving force died. Then they were still pretty good for an album. Then they released one final great album but at the cost of their creative souls. Then they were one shade or another of shit after the black album. I do think Metallica's progress as musicians is more logical and gradual than "they made metal and then sold out." I'm totally derailing the topic, but the way I see it is this: A lot of their style changes can be pinned on both line-up changes and the way rock/metal evolved at the time. The first two albums relied heavily on Dave Mustaine's stylistic influence, and when that started to wane, Cliff Burton had a huge impact artistically. Even if his songwriting contribution on Master of Puppets wasn't as big as on Ride the Lightning, there was still this sense of 'if Cliff doesn't like it, it ain't happening'; at least that is what Kirk Hammett later said. After Burton's death, Metallica ceased to be a full band and it was largely Hetfield and Ulrich (mainly the latter) just telling the others what to do. Hence why And Justice For All sounds like ass production-wise; they had no one left who could step in and just say 'no, that idea sucks', which is why Metallica albums also became longer and longer with seemingly no one there to direct/edit things into a coherent, strong unit. Fortunately, AFJA is also an album where Metallica really challenge themselves in terms of composition and playing, so it's still a very creative album. They're really trying to prove themselves as musicians, and you get the idea they're punching a little over their weight, which I find very exciting. With the Black Album, they had little left to prove as musicians and dumbed everything down to a large degree, which I still find a very logical thing to do for an artist; do the opposite of what you did on your previous album, lest you become a one-trick pony. As an added bonus, Bob Rock proved to be the guy who not only delivered what I consider to be the best production in pretty much any album, but also wasn't afraid to confront Hetfield and Ulrich creatively. There is a scene in that documentary they made of the recording process where Ulrich tries to pull the same trick as on AFJA and tells the producer (Bob Rock in this case) to turn the other instruments down, and Bob Rock's just like "we tried that and it sounded like shit, so no." After that album, Rock seemingly got too close to the band, and Metallica entered the pretty much inevitable midlife crisis phase of their careers, so nothing they put out since then held anywhere near the weight of their first 5 albums. 14 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said: I don't think this is an unpopular opinion. I think this is pretty fucking spot on. Although that "final great album" is probably my least favourite of their great albums. Seems like they traded in a lot for what a lot of people think is their best produced album. But imo the best production sound to me of that era of Metallica is Master of Puppets - I disagree with a lot of people that think it's their magnum opus. But I think it's produced really really well. And the songs are still very very thrashy and I love how the songs have lots of transitions to different sounding sections yet they're so seemless sounding in the transitions - but that's more about song composition than production tbh. And maybe that's clouding my vision there. Either way... Kill 'em All & Ride the Lightning FTW. Although I think my overall favourite debut album for thrash would have to be either Bonded by Blood by Exodus or Show No Mercy by Slayer (although that's arguably not thrash, but Slayer's in the big 4 so fuck it I'm throwing it in with thrash). Master of Puppets is imo the first Metallica album that contains filler, or at least contains clear stand-out tracks that carry the entire album. If I had to make a top 5 it'd look like... 1. Ride the Lightning 2. Kill 'Em All 3. Master of Puppets 4/5. And Justice For All/Black Album AFJA and Black Album just really depend on my mood and if I'm more able to tune out the bad production/mixing of the former or the simplistic songwriting of the latter.
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Panflute said: I do think Metallica's progress as musicians is more logical and gradual than "they made metal and then sold out." I'm totally derailing the topic, but the way I see it is this: A lot of their style changes can be pinned on both line-up changes and the way rock/metal evolved at the time. The first two albums relied heavily on Dave Mustaine's stylistic influence, and when that started to wane, Cliff Burton had a huge impact artistically. Even if his songwriting contribution on Master of Puppets wasn't as big as on Ride the Lightning, there was still this sense of 'if Cliff doesn't like it, it ain't happening'; at least that is what Kirk Hammett later said. After Burton's death, Metallica ceased to be a full band and it was largely Hetfield and Ulrich (mainly the latter) just telling the others what to do. Hence why And Justice For All sounds like ass production-wise; they had no one left who could step in and just say 'no, that idea sucks', which is why Metallica albums also became longer and longer with seemingly no one there to direct/edit things into a coherent, strong unit. Fortunately, AFJA is also an album where Metallica really challenge themselves in terms of composition and playing, so it's still a very creative album. They're really trying to prove themselves as musicians, and you get the idea they're punching a little over their weight, which I find very exciting. With the Black Album, they had little left to prove as musicians and dumbed everything down to a large degree, which I still find a very logical thing to do for an artist; do the opposite of what you did on your previous album, lest you become a one-trick pony. As an added bonus, Bob Rock proved to be the guy who not only delivered what I consider to be the best production in pretty much any album, but also wasn't afraid to confront Hetfield and Ulrich creatively. There is a scene in that documentary they made of the recording process where Ulrich tries to pull the same trick as on AFJA and tells the producer (Bob Rock in this case) to turn the other instruments down, and Bob Rock's just like "we tried that and it sounded like shit, so no." After that album, Rock seemingly got too close to the band, and Metallica entered the pretty much inevitable midlife crisis phase of their careers, so nothing they put out since then held anywhere near the weight of their first 5 albums. Master of Puppets is imo the first Metallica album that contains filler, or at least contains clear stand-out tracks that carry the entire album. If I had to make a top 5 it'd look like... 1. Ride the Lightning 2. Kill 'Em All 3. Master of Puppets 4/5. And Justice For All/Black Album AFJA and Black Album just really depend on my mood and if I'm more able to tune out the bad production/mixing of the former or the simplistic songwriting of the latter. If AJFA didn’t have totally dogshit production it’d be right up there with Rust in Peace imo. I actually only don’t like one song of Master of Puppets, Leper Messiah - I just don’t like the album as much as Kill ‘em All (which tbh is probably my favourite Metallica album) or RTL (which on some days is probably my favourite). I think of Master of Puppets as sort of like their Sgt. Pepper’s - which isn’t the Beatles best imo, but it’s probably their most influential album.
Spike Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 On 14/01/2020 at 05:18, Vader said: Australian, English and Canadian artists are way better than American. There are like five modern Australian and Canadian artists popular internationally.
Machado Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 More like a rant but Alice In Chains not being in the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame despite being easily the most musically evolved band to come out of the grunge scene is a major farce.
tlr Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Machado said: More like a rant but Alice In Chains not being in the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame despite being easily the most musically evolved band to come out of the grunge scene is a major farce. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a blight on the industry anyway. No Alice in Chains, Maiden, Motorhead, Purple, Priest, etc. Fuck them.
Dr. Gonzo Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 17 minutes ago, Machado said: More like a rant but Alice In Chains not being in the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame despite being easily the most musically evolved band to come out of the grunge scene is a major farce. Mate Iron Maiden isn't even on the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame... and that's a band that was referenced in one of the greatest films of all time... the first Bill & Ted. The institution is a total joke - Judas Priest made the top 5 fan votes to be inducted this year. The Hall of Fame decided to snub them. Meanwhile Whitney Houston and Biggie Smalls, neither of whom are in the genre of "rock n roll," are set to be inducted. Bruce Dickenson says Iron Maiden will never be inducted into the Hall of Fame and it doesn't bother him because the people in charge of the award are idiots. He's right.
tlr Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 On 07/02/2020 at 22:48, Dr. Gonzo said: Mate Iron Maiden isn't even on the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame... and that's a band that was referenced in one of the greatest films of all time... the first Bill & Ted. The institution is a total joke - Judas Priest made the top 5 fan votes to be inducted this year. The Hall of Fame decided to snub them. Meanwhile Whitney Houston and Biggie Smalls, neither of whom are in the genre of "rock n roll," are set to be inducted. Bruce Dickenson says Iron Maiden will never be inducted into the Hall of Fame and it doesn't bother him because the people in charge of the award are idiots. He's right. Dickinson had a brilliant quote mid-rant on the whole thing, 'they need to drink fucking beer' Completely agree with him though. Breaks my heart when I see band like Priest and especially Motorhead pleading away for votes and induction on social media. Two of the finest metal bands ever and two leading lights for rebellion and being and doing whatever you want acting like a dog wanting let outside for a walk. Awful, awful business. Grow up and tell them to fuck off. Fans made you and love you come what may, the arseholes in charge of the Hall of Fame wouldn't know who you were if you were wearing a bloody name badge.
Machado Posted April 22, 2020 Posted April 22, 2020 Isn't arena rock like Eye of the tiger rock's equivalent of Drake making music for Tik Tok?
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