Chelsea 4-0 Everton - Sunday 8th March, 2020

[Michael]

Chelsea are embarrassing Everton here.

Everton bring on Moise Kean to try and help them at least pull a goal back. The striker who has only scored 1 goal all season, fat lot of help he is going to be for them!

[Dan+]

It's so Everton it's unreal. Going to take more than just this manager to sort out the inferiority complex. Embarrassing scoreline.

[RandoEFC+]

Ultimately, if we keep going to these games with players like Sigurdsson, Walcott, Keane, Sidibe and Davies in the team, this will keep happening.

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Ultimately, if we keep going to these games with players like Sigurdsson, Walcott, Keane, Sidibe and Davies in the team, this will keep happening.

What's Ancelotti's contract?

I can guess he'd ship out a lot of the deadwood and actually get players in with some kind of direction.

[RandoEFC+]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

What's Ancelotti's contract?

I can guess he'd ship out a lot of the deadwood and actually get players in with some kind of direction.

5 years I think.

I know I've been saying it for years now but we haven't got the Koeman/Walsh disaster out of our system. We're close to the wall on FFP too I think so I don't know how much of an overhaul we can have this summer without finding unlikely buyers for Sigurdsson, Walcott, Bolasie, Tosun, Niasse, Schneiderlin and any other shite 29-31 year olds who we incompetently gave massive contracts to.

[Cicero]

Gilmour MOTM again. Unreal lad. 

Probably the first league game all season where I've felt comfortable the entire 90 minutes. Everton were tragic. We played well, by my god they were horrid. 

I said this when they first appointed Ancelotti, never in his history was he in charge of a 'rebuild'. 

[Bluewolf]

Great team performance... 

Given ourselves a bit of breathing space for fourth place and closed the gap behind Leicester, not a bad day at all... 

[RandoEFC+]

Lost 4-0 and our best performer was the goalkeeper. Disgusting.

We perpetually just seem to have a shite squad. I don't know how we keep managing to finish around 7th and 8th because we haven't deserved to be the best outside the top six since the first Martinez season.

Today should settle the question on whether to sign Sidibe. He looked solid at first but that's the 3rd or 4th time he's looked a total liability for 90 minutes so no thanks. Give Kenny his chance next season and if he isn't good enough sign a right back next summer. Offer Baines another year to buy us time at left back because there's so much money that needs spending elsewhere. Keane is alright against bottom half sides but not in these games so we need a new centre back to offer serious competition to Mina and Holgate in the long term, preferably one who's good enough to be one of the first names on the team sheet.

Hopefully Gbamin gets some games before the summer so that we can gauge him and Gomes in a midfield partnership. Davies needs a loan to a newly promoted side or something. Sigurdsson, Delph and Schneiderlin are all just depressingly bad options in a midfield two. Bernard should be playing every game but again we need probably 2 wingers if we're sticking with 442. Walcott is embarrassing and we've started Sigurdsson on the left the last two games. Iwobi is a massive problem now because he was signed to play as one of the three behind the striker and now he doesn't have a position aside from being shoe horned in out wide where he's wasted.

Up front is probably the only place we don't need to spend.

[Stan]

Hadn't realised Pedro didn't have any assists or goals this season in the league. Gets 1 each in first half today.

@RandoEFC 'Everton, that'. 

 

[RandoEFC+]

4 minutes ago, Cicero said:

 

I said this when they first appointed Ancelotti, never in his history was he in charge of a 'rebuild'. 

This is still a bizarre read for me unless you judge it entirely off today's game.

Should have got Moyes?

[Lucas]

Michael Keane and Mason Holgate are not the answer for me.

Good enough for a midtable side which Everton currently are, but not good enough for Top 5/6 which Everton wish to aspire to.

[RandoEFC+]

1 minute ago, Lucas said:

Michael Keane and Mason Holgate are not the answer for me.

Good enough for a midtable side which Everton currently are, but not good enough for Top 5/6 IMO.

Keane is only good enough to be a backup. I'd argue not even reliable for a mid-table side because you know you're going to get a bad game in every four. Holgate has the ideal attributes for a modern centre half but he needs a commanding partner. Mina is certainly better than Keane and he and Holgate seemed to have a good run of games together but Ancelotti is set on rotation. I think he sees the end of this season as the time to have a good look at the whole squad. Still I don't think we've seen the consistency from Mina to be sure that we could trust him and Holgate as a good enough partnership to kick on.

Then again, as much as the bitter, attention-seeking Roy Keane is sat there saying we're "miles away" from competing for Europe, the way the league is at the moment, the standards for getting top 5/6 are a lot different to what they've been in years gone by. Today was shambolic but in the last two games against Arsenal and Man Utd there was minimal difference between us and them and they're both well in the mix. In fact, we're still only 6 points away from 5th place ourselves even after the first half of the season was a write-off.

[Cicero]

14 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

This is still a bizarre read for me unless you judge it entirely off today's game.

Should have got Moyes?

I don't know what you should of done, but appointing Ancelotti on name alone isn't the answer, especially considering his success was down to 'ready made' sides. He isn't as tactical as people also make him out to be. Matter of fact, a big reason why he was sacked his second season was down to the club not trusting him to lead the obvious rebuild we needed. He squeezed every last juice out of that spine during our double win. 

There is so much gash in your team that virtually no one will succeed until a massive overhaul is experienced. 

 

 

[RandoEFC+]

1 minute ago, Cicero said:

I don't know what you should of done, but appointing Ancelotti on name alone isn't the answer, especially considering his success was down to 'ready made' sides. He isn't as tactical as people also make him out to be. Matter of fact, a big reason why he was sacked his second season was down to the club not trusting him to lead the obvious rebuild we needed. He squeezed every last juice out of that spine during our double win. 

There is so much gash in your team that virtually no one will succeed until a massive overhaul is experienced. 

 

 

He hasn't been appointed on name alone though has he? He's objectively the best option available to us and you admit you don't know what we should have done. You can't just magic the ideal candidate out of thin air. There's no such thing as one person being "the answer". Everyone has their pros and cons and you choose the best candidate accordingly.

We've tried everything else. We've had the up and coming philosophy based managers in Martinez and Silva, we've tried the established-at-our-level option in Koeman, we've tried the best of Brexit option with Sam Allardyce. The problem that's been consistent through these various eras at the club is there has always been doubt over the pedigree of the manager. The reason half of the gash is still in our team is because they've mastered the art of looking half decent for 10 games every time we get a new manager to make it look like the last one who got sacked was the problem with our performances. There has always been doubt over whether players were poorly managed or just poor players. When you're managed by a guy who has won multiple Champions Leagues there's nowhere to hide anymore. Above all else, what the club needs is a manager with the authority to say Sigurdsson, Keane, Walcott etc. aren't good enough to deliver the results you're asking for, no more chances, they need to go.

[Honey Honey]

13 games in. 4 defeats. Chelsea away. Arsenal away. Man City away. Liverpool away.

Not good enough 

[Lucas]

9 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Keane is only good enough to be a backup. I'd argue not even reliable for a mid-table side because you know you're going to get a bad game in every four. Holgate has the ideal attributes for a modern centre half but he needs a commanding partner. Mina is certainly better than Keane and he and Holgate seemed to have a good run of games together but Ancelotti is set on rotation. I think he sees the end of this season as the time to have a good look at the whole squad. Still I don't think we've seen the consistency from Mina to be sure that we could trust him and Holgate as a good enough partnership to kick on.

Then again, as much as the bitter, attention-seeking Roy Keane is sat there saying we're "miles away" from competing for Europe, the way the league is at the moment, the standards for getting top 5/6 are a lot different to what they've been in years gone by. Today was shambolic but in the last two games against Arsenal and Man Utd there was minimal difference between us and them and they're both well in the mix. In fact, we're still only 6 points away from 5th place ourselves even after the first half of the season was a write-off.

Jagielka and Distin were for me, your last great partnership back there and I don't think you've quite managed to replace them.

For me, I don't think any of the CB's you have are currently up to that standard.

You could be right with Holgate possibly improving his level with the right CB next to him but that said, at 23 years, I'd be wanting more from him as a starter.

But, and this is also a fair factor, you absolutely miss a quality defensive midfielder to ease the burden on those CB's. Gueye really has been a huge loss for you hasn't he.

 

[RandoEFC+]

5 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Jagielka and Distin were for me, your last great partnership back there and I don't think you've quite managed to replace them.

For me, I don't think any of the CB's you have are currently up to that standard.

You could be right with Holgate possibly improving his level with the right CB next to him but that said, at 23 years, I'd be wanting more from him as a starter.

But, and this is also a fair factor, you absolutely miss a quality defensive midfielder to ease the burden on those CB's. Gueye really has been a huge loss for you hasn't he.

 

Yep and in classic Everton fashion his replacement Gbamin has missed the entire season with a freak quad injury sustained while having a shot in training.

[Cicero]

5 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

He hasn't been appointed on name alone though has he? He's objectively the best option available to us and you admit you don't know what we should have done. You can't just magic the ideal candidate out of thin air. There's no such thing as one person being "the answer". Everyone has their pros and cons and you choose the best candidate accordingly.

We've tried everything else. We've had the up and coming philosophy based managers in Martinez and Silva, we've tried the established-at-our-level option in Koeman, we've tried the best of Brexit option with Sam Allardyce. The problem that's been consistent through these various eras at the club is there has always been doubt over the pedigree of the manager. The reason half of the gash is still in our team is because they've mastered the art of looking half decent for 10 games every time we get a new manager to make it look like the last one who got sacked was the problem with our performances. There has always been doubt over whether players were poorly managed or just poor players. When you're managed by a guy who has won multiple Champions Leagues there's nowhere to hide anymore. Above all else, what the club needs is a manager with the authority to say Sigurdsson, Keane, Walcott etc. aren't good enough to deliver the results you're asking for, no more chances, they need to go.

And i'm saying Ancelotti is another decision that won't work. 

Have you genuinely seen improvement since Silva? 

 

[LFCMike]

14 minutes ago, Cicero said:

And i'm saying Ancelotti is another decision that won't work. 

Have you genuinely seen improvement since Silva? 

 

Are you saying they haven't improved since sacking Silva? That's bonkers

[Cicero]

1 minute ago, LFCMike said:

Are you saying they haven't improved since sacking Silva? That's bonkers

Yes. 

 

[RandoEFC+]

9 minutes ago, Cicero said:

And i'm saying Ancelotti is another decision that won't work. 

Have you genuinely seen improvement since Silva? 

 

Yes. We were either 17th or in the bottom three when Silva was sacked ffs. You're making the naive error of judging us based off one game. If we played like that every game we'd obviously be below Norwich.

Before the Arsenal game only Liverpool had more points than us since Ancelotti's appointment. Against Arsenal and Man Utd we were incredibly unlucky to come away with just one point. We outplayed both sides for extended periods of each match. Individual errors from Sidibe, Pickford and John Moss can't be blamed on Ancelotti.

Today was just terrible but that's one game.

Your argument is that he's never been in charge of a rebuild anyway? He hasn't even had a transfer window so I don't know what rebuilding he's supposed to have done. A manager can only do so much with the players he's inherited.

[LFCMike]

2 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Yes. 

 

They were averaging less than a point a game under Silva this season

[LFCMadLad]

38 minutes ago, Cicero said:

And i'm saying Ancelotti is another decision that won't work. 

Have you genuinely seen improvement since Silva? 

 

Wow 

[Cicero]

4 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Yes. We were either 17th or in the bottom three when Silva was sacked ffs. You're making the naive error of judging us based off one game. If we played like that every game we'd obviously be below Norwich.

Before the Arsenal game only Liverpool had more points than us since Ancelotti's appointment. Against Arsenal and Man Utd we were incredibly unlucky to come away with just one point. We outplayed both sides for extended periods of each match. Individual errors from Sidibe, Pickford and John Moss can't be blamed on Ancelotti.

Today was just terrible but that's one game.

Your argument is that he's never been in charge of a rebuild anyway? He hasn't even had a transfer window so I don't know what rebuilding he's supposed to have done. A manager can only do so much with the players he's inherited.

Fair enough. That's my mistake. I would label beating sides you were supposed to beat as improvement too. 

My argument is that Ancelotti's success has been backed under spines such as Maldini, Stam, Terry, Carvalho, Cafu, Cole, Lampard, Pirlo, Kaka, Drogba, Seedorf, Ronaldo, etc. He's even managed to make those sides poor given his decision making tactically.  Something I find to be extremely overrated, especially when you look at his second tenure with us, Bayern and Real. Today just reminded me of that, especially when he fails to address the blatant obvious. 

He's never experienced a tenure in any shape resembling the job Everton need now. He was sacked with us because the board felt he wasn't capable of rebuilding us post Mourinho spine.  

[RandoEFC+]

2 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Fair enough. That's my mistake. I would label beating sides you were supposed to beat as improvement too. 

My argument is that Ancelotti's success has been backed under spines such as Maldini, Stam, Terry, Carvalho, Cafu, Cole, Lampard, Pirlo, Kaka, Drogba, Seedorf, Ronaldo, etc. He's even managed to make those sides poor given his decision making tactically.  Something I find to be extremely overrated, especially when you look at his second tenure with us, Bayern and Real. Today just reminded me of that, especially when he fails to address the blatant obvious. 

He's never experienced a tenure in any shape resembling the job Everton need now. He was sacked with us because the board felt he wasn't capable of rebuilding us post Mourinho spine.  

Fair enough, time will tell. He's done more good than bad so far though.