Arsenal 2-1 Liverpool - Wednesday 15th July, 2020

[Michael]

19 minutes ago, Bluewolf said:

Agreed, If you discount the slightly off form situation they have found themselves in since the restart you would have to say that mentally and physically they are in very good shape, clearly quite a few steps ahead of everyone else this season for sure and other than becoming complacent going into next season they don't really need all that much tweaking but would agree with @Rick that you are better off not just sitting as is if you can bring additional quality reinforcements periodically to keep the squad fresh and competitive.. It's a fine balance though between disrupting the current squad and working out how long you can maintain the current levels of performance going forward with what you have... always got to try and have that competitive edge in this league.. I am fairly sure City will be chomping at the bit to get back on top and it's always harder to win back to backs... 

Yes, but I think that we have to be realistic. The COVID-19 break has no doubt disrupted the form of a lot of teams and since the restart, there has been a game every 3 days or so, that's bound to take a toll on some teams. Liverpool are one of the best teams in the world right now, but their players are still human and they are playing in one of the most demanding leagues in the world. In any case, they won the league this season by a landslide number of points, so I really don't think that there is much criticism that can be directed in their direction.

I agree that refreshing your squad with new additions is important in order to keep up with the improving competition. But my point is basically that Liverpool are in a much healthier position than most right now and there is no reason to start panicking at this moment in time. We know that Liverpool are under excellent management and that they are very ambitious. So I don't think that there is much to worry about at all at present for Liverpool fans.

[Danny]

32 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Adjust his system? What, for one player? why would he when the one he uses is so successful? That literally makes no sense!

Because managers adjust their systems all the time, it's literally part of the job. It'd especially make sense to adjust the system so that Werner can play in it as then you would have a striker who has just scored 34 goals in a season.

[Smiley Culture]

I think it’s natural to expect a bit of a drop-off from Liverpool next season. The must have played approx. 100 games in the past two seasons, it’s some ask to expect them to continue at that same level for a third season. City struggled to do so and didn’t really bring many (any?) players in last summer and while I don’t think it’s solely down to not spending, I think it would be amiss of Klopp, the transfer committee, the analysts that have served them well and the owners to not add a face or two to that squad.

I don’t necessarily think they need to go throwing £80m+ at a player just because they now can do so, but some further depth and/or moving on some squad players to freshen things up would definitely help. 

[Inverted]

One thing about Liverpool is that for the most part Klopp seems to prefer gradually bedding-in players. Signings for the most part arent made for immediate impact, and when it comes to picking a side, he values familiarity with the system over basically everything else. 

Even if Liverpool would be fine with largely the same squad next season, they could, and maybe should be making additions with a view to the season after next.

[LFCMike]

7 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

I think it’s natural to expect a bit of a drop-off from Liverpool next season. The must have played approx. 100 games in the past two seasons, it’s some ask to expect them to continue at that same level for a third season. City struggled to do so and didn’t really bring many (any?) players in last summer and while I don’t think it’s solely down to not spending, I think it would be amiss of Klopp, the transfer committee, the analysts that have served them well and the owners to not add a face or two to that squad.

I don’t necessarily think they need to go throwing £80m+ at a player just because they now can do so, but some further depth and/or moving on some squad players to freshen things up would definitely help. 

City spent £150m last summer

[RandoEFC+]

I haven't seen anyone moaning about signing nobody in a transfer window that's not started yet. All I see is people raising legitimate points that Liverpool haven't made many major signings for 3-4 transfer windows and that there is still a lack of strength in depth, and that they might regret not investing in Timo Werner. You can say those things without thinking you know better than Klopp and the recruitment team or "doubting" Klopp.

[Smiley Culture]

4 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

City spent £150m last summer

Let’s be honest, they added two players for the first team squad. 

[LFCMike]

2 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

Let’s be honest, they added two players for the first team squad. 

Three I think but either way it's well over £100m. God knows how much Guardiola has spent on full backs now. Liverpool cant afford to spend that kind of money and get it wrong so often. Klopp has shown he'll wait for the right player and not spend for the sake of it

[LFCMadLad]

1 hour ago, Danny said:

Because managers adjust their systems all the time, it's literally part of the job. It'd especially make sense to adjust the system so that Werner can play in it as then you would have a striker who has just scored 34 goals in a season.

Maybe Klopp didn't think Werner was worth changing his system for, or the money Werner was demanding? 

[Rick]

16 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Maybe Klopp didn't think Werner was worth changing his system for, or the money Werner was demanding? 

The man is a goal machine, has been for the last three seasons. I think it’s a big big “maybe” to assume Klopp doesn’t rate him enough to want him. 
 

@RandoEFC has summed up my stance better than I could myself I’m made out as not having faith or believing in this manager or team just because I want a better second choice up front than Origi. I don’t think it’s fair, but if that’s the worst I get for voicing my opinion on here then so be it. 
 

Ive never once asked for 100m spending or players either. I have mentioned Werner and especially Havertz as players I’d love ya to go for, but that’s cause they are both potentially generational talents. Havertz would be amazing in this team and is 20 years old. He’s ready now AND the future. But let’s see then, I’ll eat my hat if we bring in the players we need. 

[Cicero]

1 hour ago, Michael said:

Errm, Timo Werner is actually on £270,000 a week at Chelsea. 

It's £170,000 a week, which was initially reported by Bild. 

I don't think Hazard ever earned £270,000 a week. 

 

[LFCMike]

43 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I haven't seen anyone moaning about signing nobody in a transfer window that's not started yet. All I see is people raising legitimate points that Liverpool haven't made many major signings for 3-4 transfer windows and that there is still a lack of strength in depth, and that they might regret not investing in Timo Werner. You can say those things without thinking you know better than Klopp and the recruitment team or "doubting" Klopp.

I think once Chelsea were in for him the wages would have been a problem. Liverpool's wage bill has increased a fair bit over the last couple of years but it's all been increases based on performance. There's no way they'd have brought him in on that sort of money straight away. That's without even considering the uncertain times we're in.

With regards to the strength in depth, I think it only looks 'lacking' when you compare it to Man City. But no other club on the planet has that sort of strength in depth. Certainly no one in this league comes close.

I think any signings depend on what you can get for Origi, Wilson and Shaqiri. It might be difficult finding buyers for them in the current climate.

[LFCMadLad]

12 minutes ago, Rick said:

The man is a goal machine, has been for the last three seasons. I think it’s a big big “maybe” to assume Klopp doesn’t rate him enough to want him. 
 

Oh Klopp probably wanted him. He just couldnt offer him the gametime Chelsea could, and wouldn't pay him the wages he wanted. 

[LFCMike]

15 minutes ago, Rick said:

The man is a goal machine, has been for the last three seasons. I think it’s a big big “maybe” to assume Klopp doesn’t rate him enough to want him. 
 

@RandoEFC has summed up my stance better than I could myself I’m made out as not having faith or believing in this manager or team just because I want a better second choice up front than Origi. I don’t think it’s fair, but if that’s the worst I get for voicing my opinion on here then so be it. 
 

Ive never once asked for 100m spending or players either. I have mentioned Werner and especially Havertz as players I’d love ya to go for, but that’s cause they are both potentially generational talents. Havertz would be amazing in this team and is 20 years old. He’s ready now AND the future. But let’s see then, I’ll eat my hat if we bring in the players we need. 

Let's not forget Liverpool nearly went ahead with furloughing staff a couple of months ago. If they'd then stumped up £50m for Werner we'd all be calling them out for being absolute cunts.

Or would we?

[Michael]

26 minutes ago, Cicero said:

It's £170,000 a week, which was initially reported by Bild. 

I don't think Hazard ever earned £270,000 a week. 

 

Yes, the £170,000 per week report was the initial figure that came out in mid-June when Werner was about to sign, hence the reason LFCMadLad also quoted that figure. However, it has since been revealed by Bild and other sources that he is in fact earning around £270,000 a week. Bild have reported that he will be earning 15.5 million euros a year.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/werner-the-highest-earner-at-chelsea-forward-makes-top-5-of-best-paid-germans/view/news/363769#:~:text=As Bild report%2C the 24,more than €10 million”.

 

[Cicero]

21 minutes ago, Michael said:

Yes, the £170,000 per week report was the initial figure that came out in mid-June when Werner was about to sign, hence the reason LFCMadLad also quoted that figure. However, it has since been revealed by Bild and other sources that he is in fact earning around £270,000 a week. Bild have reported that he will be earning 15.5 million euros a year.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/werner-the-highest-earner-at-chelsea-forward-makes-top-5-of-best-paid-germans/view/news/363769#:~:text=As Bild report%2C the 24,more than €10 million”.

 

Mental. Fucking agent fees as well. 

Looks like he is the man next season. 

[Michael]

Just now, Cicero said:

Mental. Fucking agent fees as well. 

Looks like he is the man next season. 

I know, it's quite unbelievable. No wonder Liverpool and several other top clubs decided against signing him, few clubs would pay these crazy wages and bonuses. That £10 million singing on bonus will have made Werner even happier. Werner must be ecstatic right now and it's no wonder he had his heart set on Chelsea. He's a top player though and I am sure that Chelsea will become a much more clinical side next season with him up front.

[Rick]

1 hour ago, LFCMike said:

Let's not forget Liverpool nearly went ahead with furloughing staff a couple of months ago. If they'd then stumped up £50m for Werner we'd all be calling them out for being absolute cunts.

Or would we?

I mean, I thought it was massively cuntish and disappointing that they did that to start with. 

[RandoEFC+]

Wasn't the furloughing thing just a misjudgement by the owners? There's no way that Liverpool "needed" to furlough those staff even if they're not full of cash at the moment. There was a limit to how much you could get paid on furlough so the difference to the club financially was probably negligible. 

I understand that the Werner pull-out was financially motivated and it sounds like the right call looking at the wages he's going onto and how many goals are already in that team.

[Rick]

15 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Wasn't the furloughing thing just a misjudgement by the owners? There's no way that Liverpool "needed" to furlough those staff even if they're not full of cash at the moment. There was a limit to how much you could get paid on furlough so the difference to the club financially was probably negligible. 

I understand that the Werner pull-out was financially motivated and it sounds like the right call looking at the wages he's going onto and how many goals are already in that team.

Essentially, no. This club has signed new sponsorship deals, new kit deals, made two European cup finals and won one. What have Chelsea done? The stadium work has been put on hold And so has the training ground development, so they cant even use that excuse. This club can afford players, especially after spending 7m in the last 18 months. 
 

I am not asking for 50m signing here, 80m there. I’m just asking for better than Origi. Our bench isn’t as good as City or Chelsea, and you could argue Spurs are on the same level. I just don’t want us standing still. Not city level spending. But I’ve said that numerous times and I’m getting sick of it myself so I’ll leave it there. 

[Spike]

8 hours ago, Danny said:

I’m sure Klopp can adjust his system

Why would he do that to field an extra forward? They aren’t wanting for goals, and Werner doesn’t defend or press. 

[Danny]

25 minutes ago, Spike said:

Why would he do that to field an extra forward? They aren’t wanting for goals, and Werner doesn’t defend or press. 

Do you think if they signed him they were going to sell their other forwards?

[Spike]

21 minutes ago, Danny said:

Do you think if they signed him they were going to sell their other forwards?

You didn't answer my question. So far you've said he be rotated in, Klopp would make changes to fit in four forwards, and now they'd be selling a player. Make up your mind and stop putting words in for me. 

[LFCMadLad]

Going on the prices quoted, I'm pretty sure the club made the right decision not signing a player that we really aren't that desperate for.

[Spike]

1 minute ago, LFCMadLad said:

Going on the prices quoted, I'm pretty sure the club made the right decision not signing a player that we really aren't that desperate for.

Too many starters can be a bad thing. Look at Barcelona, they have some of the best forwards in the world but since they've so many they can't fit them into the team all the time.  Sometimes less talented players are a better thing than elite players because they know they a step down on the pecking order. Players like Origi and Shaqiri know they are playing for the squad but signing a 50,000,000 pound player on huge wages to split time with the other centre-forward? It's irresponsible and that money is better invested on another starter in a weaker position. 

How would Firmino feel knowing that his minutes are being halved next season? Maybe if he were 32 but not right now. Even Man City only have two centre-forwards and one of them has even admitted to wanting more game time.