Chelsea Discussion

[The Liquidator]

21 minutes ago, bozziovai said:

 most people including me have predicted that Chelsea will be having problems when they'll be playing in the UCL.    now, here it is.   

Yes, and you were all neatly quite after the Atlético game. Season has 6 months plus to go.... keep your over worked Penis in your pants till then floppy.

[HK85]

Oops, replied on the wrong account. 

[The Liquidator]

28 minutes ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

qarabag 0-0 Atletico.... 

 

[Redcanuck]

Atletico has struggled at times this season, though they seem to be playing better in Liga lately, doesn't their result against Qarabag and the chance they may not advance from the group stages, diminish Cheslea's result in Madrid any?    Not to take anything from Cheslea's performance they played a great game, but Atletico have been a little of their game this season.

[The Liquidator]

9 minutes ago, Redcanuck said:

Atletico has struggled at times this season, though they seem to be playing better in Liga lately, doesn't their result against Qarabag and the chance they may not advance from the group stages, diminish Cheslea's result in Madrid any?    Not to take anything from Cheslea's performance they played a great game, but Atletico have been a little of their game this season.

So by your logic, we can discount United position in our league as all results up to Liverpool were against bottom half clubs & when faced with a higher club, out comes the Bus and stalemate?

Come on mate, you are better than Teso

[Cicero]

5 minutes ago, The Liquidator said:

So by your logic, we can discount United position in our league as all results up to Liverpool were against bottom half clubs & when faced with a higher club, out comes the Bus and stalemate?

Come on mate, you are better than Teso

He may be Teso...

[The Liquidator]

2 minutes ago, Cicero said:

He may be Teso...

No, he is a good friend of mine for over a decade and one of the most level headed knowledgeable football fans I have had the pleasure of bantering with online during that time.

Just has poor taste in which club he nailed his nuts too

[Redcanuck]

Not so much their position in the table but the form of a team should be taking into account.   United did run up so lopsided wins against teams in poor form and just because we beat Palace by 4 goals and you lost to them by a goal, does not mean we will beat you by 5 the next time we play. However,  If you diminish United's run of 4 -0 wins because the opposition were in poor form, then Cheslea's win in Madrid has to be judged in new light due to Atletico's struggles especially in the Champions League. 

[Redcanuck]

T

14 minutes ago, The Liquidator said:

So by your logic, we can discount United position in our league as all results up to Liverpool were against bottom half clubs & when faced with a higher club, out comes the Bus and stalemate?

Come on mate, you are better than Teso

 

2 minutes ago, The Liquidator said:

No, he is a good friend of mine for over a decade and one of the most level headed knowledgeable football fans I have had the pleasure of bantering with online during that time.

Just has poor taste in which club he nailed his nuts too

Thanks I will say the same about you , especially in your chose of teams to support.😉

[The Liquidator]

2 minutes ago, Redcanuck said:

Not so much their position in the table but the form of a team should be taking into account.   United did run up so lopsided wins against teams in poor form and just because we beat Palace by 4 goals and you lost to them by a goal, does not mean we will beat you by 5 the next time we play. However,  If you diminish United's run of 4 -0 wins because the opposition were in poor form, then Cheslea's win in Madrid has to be judged in new light due to Atletico's struggles especially in the Champions League. 

I wasnt diminishing it, but by the logic you used to dampen our Spanish win, one could question united's start.

[The Liquidator]

1 minute ago, Redcanuck said:

T

 

Thanks I will say the same about you , especially in your chose of teams to support.😉

 

To use Teso's level of comebacks........ I said it first I said it first!  

[Redcanuck]

7 minutes ago, The Liquidator said:

I wasnt diminishing it, but by the logic you used to dampen our Spanish win, one could question united's start.

While happy about United's start,  I do wonder about it.  That is why I told you I would wait til Guy Fawkes Day to get excited or not.

[The Liquidator]

3 minutes ago, Redcanuck said:

While happy about United's start,  I do wonder about it.  That is why I told you I would wait til Guy Fawkes Day to get excited or not.

I think we all need to hope City's normal lackluster periods kick in or its going to be a Jose Chelsea procession in Light Blue.

[The Liquidator]

Wow, talk about a result that never should have been. I caught the Watford manager interview calling it "A very unfair result"

I am as Blue a Blue as there is, but Mr. Silva is right ~ That's an unfair result, one my club were desperate for.

As ever, will watch the game a few more times before writing more later.

[carefreeluke]

 

[The Liquidator]

3 hours ago, carefreeluke said:

 

Heard this stat on the Radio.... Most impressive & for me confirms what a wonderful signing he has been.

[carefreeluke]

Apart from having an amazing free kick, can someone tell me what Marcos Alonso does especially now since teams aren't giving him the space he had last season? He's the biggest passenger we have.

[Spike]

8 minutes ago, carefreeluke said:

Apart from having an amazing free kick, can someone tell me what Marcos Alonso does especially now since teams aren't giving him the space he had last season? He's the biggest passenger we have.

Kills slags.

[carefreeluke]

@Mel81x

Our poor form really has been a mixture of things.

Started in the summer with preparation, our squad doesn't have enough depth, quality and specific types of players in each position. I don't think Conte would have wanted to use Fabregas and Bakayoko as much as he has done so far, he's been forced to use Cesc more than he would have liked because of injury problems etc and Bakayoko I believe has played more than the club would have liked given his injury concerns. Hindsight is a wonderful thing here but could we have had one or two players in the squad that would have helped us in this regard? Or have we been unlucky? Kante, Baka, Cesc, Drinkwater and the possibility to play Luiz in midfield some would say that's decent enough cover but we've switched to a three man midfield at times this season which only leaves us one midfielder spare if Luiz is playing at centre back and then you take into account Baka's fitness concerns and the type of player Fabregas is? Was this a miscalculation on the club's part? It can also be put down to the manager with his team selection where at times he's refused to move Luiz into midfield to help us in that area. Lastly, I feel we've failed to add real quality, the only position I've think we've upgraded has been Bakayoko for Matic. Morata for Costa as I said at the time wasn't an upgrade for me but let's hope he proves me wrong in this regard come the end of the season. Our business and squad management here is part of the problem.

We changed our system at the start of October last season and it took other teams until around April this year to eventually start being effective tactically against it, the first team to have real success were Tottenham in late November (a game which we still won) but they then went on to beat us in January of that season. It wasn't until April really until you a saw a couple teams start to combat the system significantly enough but by that time we were full of confidence and we worked hard to churn out results as many teams do towards the end when they win a title, confidence, adrenaline, the closeness to winning something helped spur us on towards the end, like it does for many teams. From April this year I remember Southampton, Man United, Man City, Watford (on two separate occasions) Arsenal, Roma all tactically being superior for large periods or full games. I also remember Bournemouth doing very well against us tactically on Boxing Day last year.

Our system relies on certain movements, certain passing combinations and has specific tactical traits and aspects all of which have been drilled and drilled by Conte since the system was introduced. I've been seeing more and more people this season say we park the bus but this is not the case, first of all we’re set up to play good and progressive football, some of the best football I’ve seen us play watching Chelsea was last season under Conte, I remember Pep saying last year that we played the best football in the league (or something like that) and John Motson alluded to us saying we delivered ‘the greatest ever Premier League’ performance he’d seen. Don’t get me wrong we’re not as attacking as say City, Liverpool, Spurs etc but we’re progressive and like to play, the difference being and (what made us good last season) was the fact that we had the option to play on the counter attack as well and we were very effective at it. First, we’d attempt to get on the ball and take the initiative (that’s the case with any team we play) if that doesn’t work for whatever reason, the opposition are superior in possession or we’re not playing well for example we remote to counter attacking mode.

We have a clear identity and playing style and I don’t know how it took teams so long to work it out, perhaps it says something about the tactical strength of this league which is something foreign players always comment on and say the Premier League is a lot weaker in that department compared to others in Europe. Quite comical looking back and seeing the number of teams that attempted to change to three at the back, (some had success with it mind) but it perhaps said a lot more about their own situation and identity. The league has improved though in this regard with the amount of high quality managers coming in.

Anyway, more to the problem we’re having this season, it’s in part down to the increasing strength of teams around us, Spurs and City for example are both very well coached, Man United have improved and even Wenger has had some decent moments against us. I think Liverpool play one way and one way only and they’re very good on their day but Klopp hasn’t looked to exploit us tactically as much as the other top teams. The quality of the top teams shouldn’t be used as an excuse on our part but you have to admit it’s a part of reality at this moment in time.

However, the bigger problem we’re facing is the fact that teams are having more success tactically against us, they pin back our wing backs and they press high. Last season we could play out from the back and transition in possession with ease, less and less teams are letting us do that this season, we'd outnumber teams before, now we’re struggling to transition into midfield and work our way up the pitch. We’re forced to go long a lot more now and against better teams especially, this means the ball keeps coming back and back. Poch, Pep and Wenger are fully aware of this and take advantage of it, then you’ve had smaller teams like Bournemouth and Watford attempt to do the same, perform very well and they should be applauded for it but ultimately what costs them is a lack of quality compared to the bigger teams, they’ll make more mistakes in possession which we punish or they fail to take their chances. I commented very early on after the system change last season (it’s shame we’ve lost all the old posts) that it was going to be a concern when teams starting pressing high against us and you can now start to see the problem it’s bringing. Of course, it’s not as simplistic as teams are now pressing high, you also have the fact that intensity wise we haven’t been the same as last season, as mentioned squad management has played a part as well. The smaller teams either sit off against us which helps us but they then have to take into account if they trust themselves to press high and take on possession (which we could punish on the counter) hence they have to manage the situation and choose wisely.

I’m not asking we change our system or anything and as more and more top clubs are finding these days it’s becoming increasingly difficult after having a good and successful season to then go on and improve once again in the second but the manager and club need to find ways to improve and to provide fresh impetus. Whether that be with personnel (an area in which I don’t think we’ve improved enough in) or through over means.

Edited October 22, 2017 by carefreeluke

[True Blue]

18 hours ago, carefreeluke said:

Apart from having an amazing free kick, can someone tell me what Marcos Alonso does especially now since teams aren't giving him the space he had last season? He's the biggest passenger we have.

He has been very poor, people slagged Moses but Alonso did worst to be honest. The 3-4-3 has been exposed big time, teams press the back line and we can't control the midfield. I highly doubt Conte will be changing it back to a back four, we have the players even for the old 4-2-3-1 which we played when Bats came on and it looked better. We also highly depend on Kante in our current formation as he makes it so much more stable. The Watford win will be a major boost even tough Watford did more than enough to get the points. We have Everton next who are terrible but will probably be great against us as most teams in shit form do. We should rest some players for the Bournemouth game. 

[carefreeluke]

33 minutes ago, True Blue said:

He has been very poor, people slagged Moses but Alonso did worst to be honest. The 3-4-3 has been exposed big time, teams press the back line and we can't control the midfield. I highly doubt Conte will be changing it back to a back four, we have the players even for the old 4-2-3-1 which we played when Bats came on and it looked better. We also highly depend on Kante in our current formation as he makes it so much more stable. The Watford win will be a major boost even tough Watford did more than enough to get the points. We have Everton next who are terrible but will probably be great against us as most teams in shit form do. We should rest some players for the Bournemouth game. 

I like Moses to be honest, his final ball has always been questionable but his direct style at least gives other teams something to think about. Alonso is mostly passenger, increasingly so.

[True Blue]

4 minutes ago, carefreeluke said:

I like Moses to be honest, his final ball has always been questionable but his direct style at least gives other teams something to think about. Alonso is mostly passenger, increasingly so.

Zappacosta has one killer cross in him, think Conte will use him more during the season. He always wants the players to adapt before he starts them. We will have to cope with Alonso for the season don't see us getting cover for him this season.

[Cicero]

I'd stick Dave at LWB for the time being. Our whole defence is a shambles right now with any slight of pressure

 

[True Blue]

Everton next in the league cup, Crystal Palace anyone?

[bozziovai]

On 10/20/2017 at 9:23 PM, The Liquidator said:

Yes, and you were all neatly quite after the Atlético game. Season has 6 months plus to go.... keep your over worked Penis in your pants till then floppy.

aaahhhhhhhhhh.    you were talking about a very poor atletico madrid in the UCL.

Conte was very arrogant last season bcoz he has no European Competition, he had the luxury of playing his ideal starting eleven week in and week out.    but look at how they are now ???      even though we still have 6 months, i don't see chelsea winning the EPL nor the UCL.