American Politics Discussion

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Redcanuck said:

Was to be expected in that venue. Only the first round though, I suspect they will appeal immediately to the Supreme Court and they will likely toss it out.

Can stuff from state courts go to federal courts?

It seems like it was expected because the evidence against him was overwhelming, rather than the venue.

30 minutes ago, Spike said:

Obama was more of a centrist than progressive, mate. Democrats are a right wing party with some factions that lean more central or left. It's just how America is; and in regards to Republicans that's an effect of the Reagan administration and the big party switch.

Yeah, democrats for the most part are basically tories. Republicans on the other hand are just insane & their extremist fringe is now the party base.

[Spike]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Can stuff from state courts go to federal courts?

It seems like it was expected because the evidence against him was overwhelming, rather than the venue.

Yeah, democrats for the most part are basically tories. Republicans on the other hand are just insane & their extremist fringe is now the party base.

Christian fascists. I urge you to learn up on the Reagan administration and Lee Atwater’s southern strategy.

[Redcanuck]

Trump's appeal would normally first go to the New York Appellate Division’s First Judicial Department. If that court upholds the verdict, Trump could turn to the Court of Appeals, New York's highest Court.  If the conviction is still upheld he can appeal to the Supreme Court.  There is some legal opinion that he could appeal directly to the Supreme Court, not sure if that is right though.

Edited May 31 by Redcanuck

[Viva la FCB+]

Thank jesus Jon Stewart is back. On point as he seemingly always is. 

 

[Viva la FCB+]

[Azeem]

Reportedly the worst presidential debate. One was constantly telling lies and the other couldn't make up a coherent sentence. 

[Azeem]

 

[Tommy]

Jesus Christ. Put that man out of his misery and let him enjoy his last few years in peace. 

[CaaC (John)+]

5 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Jesus Christ. Put that man out of his misery and let him enjoy his last few years in peace. 

I do feel sorry for Biden but at the time he went up against an idiot in Trump and won because many did not want Trump in the Whitehouse. Still, later on in the years he got worse (dementia I gather) and only the people (advisors) were trying to help him out.

Now it looks like the USA will unleash an idiot in the mould of Al Capone who will become President of the USA, god help us.  

[RandoEFC+]

Trump is dangerous as a potential President. Biden looks to be a stammering mess but he'd at least be surrounded by normal, intelligible people to make a reasonable fist of running the country.

The potential impact on global politics (mainly Russia) of Trump becoming President again is really frightening.

It beggars belief really that the Democrats didn't have a plan for this. Biden just about got by at the last election. It should have been clear that putting him forward again in 2024 was really risky. The polls and bookies have both had this head to head as pretty close for most of this year. You'd think if the Democrats had allowed Biden to step down after one term and put someone decent with their wits about them forward instead then they probably could have pulled it off.

Worrying times. Looking at the bookies odds this morning, Trump is favourite by the biggest gap I can remember seeing.

[Azeem]

 

[OrangeKhrush]

Joe Biden reflects weakness and fragility, the very thing that has emboldened America's enemies.

If Joe Biden is trying to negotiate for Ukraine and Israel, then you can understand why putin and Sinwar are far more encouraged to carry on.   

Joe biden is a warm body that others use to carry out the presidential power,  biden is absolutely gone.   It started with him not able to differentiate trillion from billion and saying there are 1000 trillionaires in america without any correction.   The entire debate showed him to be not right,it was borderline elderly abuse.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Bad times ahead for the free world. Trump looked far better in the debate. Sure he lied with every answer, but on TV he looked a lot better than Biden who just looked lost and old. I couldn't even understand Biden most of the time he was speaking because he was so mumbly.

I think it's pretty likely Trump wins again and it's not going to be great. All the chaos of his first term will be back, but with him now hungry for revenge. It'll be a shitshow. Gotta be worrying for all the NATO allies if Trump comes back in power too.

6 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

If Joe Biden is trying to negotiate for Ukraine and Israel, then you can understand why putin and Sinwar are far more encouraged to carry on.   

Putin's desperate for Trump to win because the way he'll negotiate will be to pressure Ukraine to capitulate. Granted, if Putin sees victory in Ukraine... I think it's likely Hamas will start to take a ceasefire seriously. I don't think it's coincidental the media stopped giving a shit about the war in Ukraine once Hamas kicked off, which takes a lot of international pressure off Putin. Probably a phone call was made to Khamenei and Hamas, a lower value proxy to Iran than Hezbollah, kicks off this war in the Middle East.

[OrangeKhrush]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Bad times ahead for the free world. Trump looked far better in the debate. Sure he lied with every answer, but on TV he looked a lot better than Biden who just looked lost and old. I couldn't even understand Biden most of the time he was speaking because he was so mumbly.

I think it's pretty likely Trump wins again and it's not going to be great. All the chaos of his first term will be back, but with him now hungry for revenge. It'll be a shitshow. Gotta be worrying for all the NATO allies if Trump comes back in power too.

Putin's desperate for Trump to win because the way he'll negotiate will be to pressure Ukraine to capitulate. Granted, if Putin sees victory in Ukraine... I think it's likely Hamas will start to take a ceasefire seriously. I don't think it's coincidental the media stopped giving a shit about the war in Ukraine once Hamas kicked off, which takes a lot of international pressure off Putin. Probably a phone call was made to Khamenei and Hamas, a lower value proxy to Iran than Hezbollah, kicks off this war in the Middle East.

Biden has shown nothing but weakness and done nothing to show otherwise.   There can be no ceasefire in the Ukraine war that sees Russia giving up the territory they have gained and if Ukraine doesn't negotiate they will eventually run out of the ability to resist. 

It started off with Afghanistan,  the peace deal was conditional upon requirements but Joe just pulled out and the Taliban violated every condition of the peace deal.   That act of softness was just the start of the Middle East popping.   He should have told Egypt to move aside they will be building a refugee camp in the Sinai and if Egypt had a problem,  there will be problems.  

Foreign policy is only one of his failings,  he achieved nothing domestically other than somehow managing to tear Americans further apart.   

As for Trump,  he missed a grand slam chance to push a conformity to world standards when it comes to abortion,  98% of countries have a 8-12 week abortion limit,  thereafter it needs to be under the opinion of two practitioners that the abortion is related to "medical risk".   He could have pushed the idea of a adoption program to ensure these babies go to people that will give them a better life.  

He also missed a high knuckle ball up in the zone with "illegal" immigration policy,  strengthening  asylum policies to prevent  indefinite refugee status and an increase in drone surveillance and fast reaction forces.    

The easiest missed opportunity was to repeat the position that winning the election is "revenge" and that he will not weaponize the system against anyone who has done that to him,  a complete olive branch. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

24 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

Biden has shown nothing but weakness and done nothing to show otherwise.   There can be no ceasefire in the Ukraine war that sees Russia giving up the territory they have gained and if Ukraine doesn't negotiate they will eventually run out of the ability to resist. 

It started off with Afghanistan,  the peace deal was conditional upon requirements but Joe just pulled out and the Taliban violated every condition of the peace deal.   That act of softness was just the start of the Middle East popping.   He should have told Egypt to move aside they will be building a refugee camp in the Sinai and if Egypt had a problem,  there will be problems.  

Foreign policy is only one of his failings,  he achieved nothing domestically other than somehow managing to tear Americans further apart.   

As for Trump,  he missed a grand slam chance to push a conformity to world standards when it comes to abortion,  98% of countries have a 8-12 week abortion limit,  thereafter it needs to be under the opinion of two practitioners that the abortion is related to "medical risk".   He could have pushed the idea of a adoption program to ensure these babies go to people that will give them a better life.  

He also missed a high knuckle ball up in the zone with "illegal" immigration policy,  strengthening  asylum policies to prevent  indefinite refugee status and an increase in drone surveillance and fast reaction forces.    

The easiest missed opportunity was to repeat the position that winning the election is "revenge" and that he will not weaponize the system against anyone who has done that to him,  a complete olive branch. 

1.) Why should Ukraine accept Russia's further annexation of land? Why should any country trust that Putin's expansionist goals in Europe are over - they weren't after he invaded Georgia. They weren't after he invaded Ukraine the first time and took Crimea.

Appeasing an expansionist dictator rather than standing strong against him in the first place is exactly how the allies found themselves in WW2 with their pants down. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. NATO and the EU are right to defend Ukraine and Ukraine is right to protect its sovereignty.

2.) The Afghanistan surrender was negotiated by the Trump administration and the Taliban were never going to respect any deal once they no longer had to worry about Blackhawk helicopters gunning them down.

3.) Why in the fuck would Egypt (or any country) accept a blatant violation of its sovereignty? No country would accept that.

Egypt and Jordan have good reason for not accepting Palestinians, especially Hamas. It's not a problem with US leadership - it's a problem with Palestinian/Hamas leadership. If you want to blame world powers outside of Palestinians, look to the Arab world for the way they fostered these extremists for decades and to Iran's leadership who see Hamas as useful idiots that will get themselves killed fighting the US proxy in the name of their god. They're the reason Hamas are such an intolerable group of extremists that neighboring Arabs (particularly the Jordanians who are basically... ethnically identical to Palestinians in most respects) can't stomach dealing with them.

4.) Trump's never going to conform to standards that the base of extremist right wingers find morally repugnant. He's captured the Fox News base entirely

5.) He didn't need to hit that point on immigration because it simply doesn't matter to his base. The promise of widespread mass deportations is enough for his base.

The bar for Trump to perform well was pretty low. He had to say enough of his rally bullshit to keep his base happy enough with his performance but not appear as deranged as his tweets and public appearances since losing the election had him look. So he repeated popular campaign slogans but toned down the absurdity from his rallies. Biden on the other hand had to not look older than Gandalf and he failed at that task miserably.

Democrats need to find a new nominee pronto, because Biden's going to cost them the election. Someone like Gavin Newsom, who made Florida's mini-Trump governor seem like a clueless right-wing redditor, can at least challenge Trump on his outright bullshit and convince democrats and moderates that he'll be a better president than Biden because he's far less close to death.

But I don't think the democrats have the balls to pull the plug on Biden's campaign. But fuck me, they absolutely need to because it's grim as fuck that America has to choose between a deranged idiot or someone far too old to be making important decisions for a super power.

[RandoEFC+]

Didn't Trump say out loud that if he was President he'd basically not be fussed what Putin does or doesn't do? No matter how weak Biden is, Trump's stance is still more damaging to Ukraine and the big picture defence of Western democracy.

[OrangeKhrush]

7 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Didn't Trump say out loud that if he was President he'd basically not be fussed what Putin does or doesn't do? No matter how weak Biden is, Trump's stance is still more damaging to Ukraine and the big picture defence of Western democracy.

From reading all the usual suspects It appears like Trump said he could end that conflict,  there just appears to be a political split on continuing the war or a ceasefire. 

[OrangeKhrush]

48 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

1.) Why should Ukraine accept Russia's further annexation of land? Why should any country trust that Putin's expansionist goals in Europe are over - they weren't after he invaded Georgia. They weren't after he invaded Ukraine the first time and took Crimea.

Appeasing an expansionist dictator rather than standing strong against him in the first place is exactly how the allies found themselves in WW2 with their pants down. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. NATO and the EU are right to defend Ukraine and Ukraine is right to protect its sovereignty.

2.) The Afghanistan surrender was negotiated by the Trump administration and the Taliban were never going to respect any deal once they no longer had to worry about Blackhawk helicopters gunning them down.

3.) Why in the fuck would Egypt (or any country) accept a blatant violation of its sovereignty? No country would accept that.

Egypt and Jordan have good reason for not accepting Palestinians, especially Hamas. It's not a problem with US leadership - it's a problem with Palestinian/Hamas leadership. If you want to blame world powers outside of Palestinians, look to the Arab world for the way they fostered these extremists for decades and to Iran's leadership who see Hamas as useful idiots that will get themselves killed fighting the US proxy in the name of their god. They're the reason Hamas are such an intolerable group of extremists that neighboring Arabs (particularly the Jordanians who are basically... ethnically identical to Palestinians in most respects) can't stomach dealing with them.

4.) Trump's never going to conform to standards that the base of extremist right wingers find morally repugnant. He's captured the Fox News base entirely

5.) He didn't need to hit that point on immigration because it simply doesn't matter to his base. The promise of widespread mass deportations is enough for his base.

The bar for Trump to perform well was pretty low. He had to say enough of his rally bullshit to keep his base happy enough with his performance but not appear as deranged as his tweets and public appearances since losing the election had him look. So he repeated popular campaign slogans but toned down the absurdity from his rallies. Biden on the other hand had to not look older than Gandalf and he failed at that task miserably.

Democrats need to find a new nominee pronto, because Biden's going to cost them the election. Someone like Gavin Newsom, who made Florida's mini-Trump governor seem like a clueless right-wing redditor, can at least challenge Trump on his outright bullshit and convince democrats and moderates that he'll be a better president than Biden because he's far less close to death.

But I don't think the democrats have the balls to pull the plug on Biden's campaign. But fuck me, they absolutely need to because it's grim as fuck that America has to choose between a deranged idiot or someone far too old to be making important decisions for a super power.

I don't think Russia could expand if they wanted to,  their military is antiquated and insufficient against an enemy that did not have anything near the same capacity.   Russia also suffered major loses to Chechnya.   

The Afghan pull out was subject to conditions,  it seems like somewhere a new agreement was made,  one where America feign a rapid pull out game and leave them a nice juicy toy box of over 300 000 fire arms,  over 1000 155mm Howitzers, Blackhawk helicopters, Bradley's and Humvees,  body Armor,  night vision goggles, ammo.  It seems like it became, we pull out,  you don't make shit for us type deal. 

America has gone into many countries and set up humanitarian camps,  that said another fantastic question is why were Egypt not compelled by the UN to set up refugee camps and surely if that was pushed by the US and Russia and China vetoed it, you would know who the assholes are.   I also think that the Arab countries don't actually give a shit about Palestine,  and there are some justifiable reasons for that as mentioned they harbour extremism and that is no fun when they infiltrate your country. 

I admire your resolve in not drop 700 "far right" bombs in there, it is such a vapid term destroyed by overuse to describe someone that doesn't conform to the same political world view.   There was a time when you couldn't tell a democrat or conservative apart,  now you can either just misgender someone or insult their patriotism to find out which is which. 

The debate was not very exciting at all and I guess the slimmer of hope is that the Democrats don't actually need Joe Biden to be anything more than a meat sack with a pulse,  he is not the one making decisions anyway,  he can screw up a lot and still have the advantage that the biggest constituencies are overrun by Jihad loving, gender fluid, white victims who think the Government is a social welfare fund. 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, OrangeKhrush said:

I admire your resolve in not drop 700 "far right" bombs in there, it is such a vapid term destroyed by overuse to describe someone that doesn't conform to the same political world view.

It's not really though. The modern day democratic party is a right-wing party by any western metric. Just compare them to the dominant right winged parties of any western European country and they're virtually identical policy wise. The republican party is a far-right party, because they are further to the right than most normal right-wing western democratic countries' parties.

America is probably the most right winged western nation there is.

The last sentence of your post is funny though. Biggest group of whites who think the government is a social welfare fund are the republican politicians of the deadbeat broke red states that don't pay their fair share in taxes and just expect California, New York, and Illinois to pick up the tab for them. That group of dickheads has a "welfare for me, not for thee" approach.

Not really looking forward to Trump inevitably winning and then him raising my taxes so I can pay for those pathetic dickheads telling California we just need to lift ourselves up by our bootstraps while they rely on our money to keep their fucking dogshit states afloat.

I'll get my US citizenship if a California "Brexit" type thing ever makes it to a statewide ballot, just so I can vote for that. Not all of the US is dead weight, but a lot of it is & it would be nice to let them fend for themselves.

[Spike]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It's not really though. The modern day democratic party is a right-wing party by any western metric. Just compare them to the dominant right winged parties of any western European country and they're virtually identical policy wise. The republican party is a far-right party, because they are further to the right than most normal right-wing western democratic countries' parties.

America is probably the most right winged western nation there is.

The last sentence of your post is funny though. Biggest group of whites who think the government is a social welfare fund are the republican politicians of the deadbeat broke red states that don't pay their fair share in taxes and just expect California, New York, and Illinois to pick up the tab for them. That group of dickheads has a "welfare for me, not for thee" approach.

Not really looking forward to Trump inevitably winning and then him raising my taxes so I can pay for those pathetic dickheads telling California we just need to lift ourselves up by our bootstraps while they rely on our money to keep their fucking dogshit states afloat.

I'll get my US citizenship if a California "Brexit" type thing ever makes it to a statewide ballot, just so I can vote for that. Not all of the US is dead weight, but a lot of it is & it would be nice to let them fend for themselves.

The democratic party was always right wing, nothing has changed for the democrats besides shifting their voting base from the southern rurality, anti-union, and the KKK to the metropolitans. There has never been a left political entity in the USA. I find it amusing that someone actually equates any sort of change in the USA to the fucking democratic party, like holy shit how stupid can someone be if they think 'gender fluidity' is in any way, shape, or form cause or endorsed by the fucking democratic party. I'm literalling lmaoing at their life. Not only that but bundling that to the welfare state, you mean the same welfare state that doesn't meet people's housing, medical, and dietary requirements, the same welfare state that is designed to keep a surplus of labour in the USA ensuring that the job market is always smaller than available labour, keeping wages low.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/grant-kkk/

https://www.studentsofhistory.com/ideologies-flip-Democratic-Republican-parties

[OrangeKhrush]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It's not really though. The modern day democratic party is a right-wing party by any western metric. Just compare them to the dominant right winged parties of any western European country and they're virtually identical policy wise. The republican party is a far-right party, because they are further to the right than most normal right-wing western democratic countries' parties.

America is probably the most right winged western nation there is.

The last sentence of your post is funny though. Biggest group of whites who think the government is a social welfare fund are the republican politicians of the deadbeat broke red states that don't pay their fair share in taxes and just expect California, New York, and Illinois to pick up the tab for them. That group of dickheads has a "welfare for me, not for thee" approach.

Not really looking forward to Trump inevitably winning and then him raising my taxes so I can pay for those pathetic dickheads telling California we just need to lift ourselves up by our bootstraps while they rely on our money to keep their fucking dogshit states afloat.

I'll get my US citizenship if a California "Brexit" type thing ever makes it to a statewide ballot, just so I can vote for that. Not all of the US is dead weight, but a lot of it is & it would be nice to let them fend for themselves.

The college creep are mostly white kids with rich parents that can pay for them to go waste 2-4 years doing something that offers absolutely nothing.  If toasting bread became victimisation,  they would be on it. 

I don't think it is an inevitable outcome yet,  far from it. 

What about if California is repatriated with Mexico like the good ol days?  California is one of the most expensive states to live in,  highest taxation.   GDP is a weak value given it fails to account for inflation,  RGDP or real GDP has California as mid.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

24 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

The college creep are mostly white kids with rich parents that can pay for them to go waste 2-4 years doing something that offers absolutely nothing.  If toasting bread became victimisation,  they would be on it. 

I don't think it is an inevitable outcome yet,  far from it. 

What about if California is repatriated with Mexico like the good ol days?  California is one of the most expensive states to live in,  highest taxation.   GDP is a weak value given it fails to account for inflation,  RGDP or real GDP has California as mid.

 

You know that map just shows the percentage change of the RGDP right? California has the highest GDP and RGDP in the US... and it's not even close.

But I'm okay with California leaving the US and Baja California leaving Mexico and having the Californias reunited.

[OrangeKhrush]

24 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You know that map just shows the percentage change of the RGDP right? California has the highest GDP and RGDP in the US... and it's not even close.

But I'm okay with California leaving the US and Baja California leaving Mexico and having the Californias reunited.

It is not the first time the idea of a splitting of the republic has come up.

[Spike]

27 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You know that map just shows the percentage change of the RGDP right? California has the highest GDP and RGDP in the US... and it's not even close.

But I'm okay with California leaving the US and Baja California leaving Mexico and having the Californias reunited.

I wonder why people are so obsessed with making California to be worse than it actually is, to the point of telling that to someone living IN CALIFORNIA

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just for the record too, here's the real GDP and nominal GDP of each state: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_GDP#:~:text=The three U.S. states with the highest GDPs,billion)%2C Wyoming (%2450.1 billion)%2C and Alaska (%2467.1 billion).