England Squad - Euro 2020

[Stan]

 

 

 

[Dave]

1 hour ago, Whiskey said:

Ben fucking White? What the fucking fuck?

Ben Godfrey still included.

Given our threat from set pieces, if you're going to pick a Brighton defender it would be the alleged sex offender as opposed to Ben White.

[Rick]

Danny Ings not being in the squad is a bit of a joke. 

[Stan]

You'd imagine 7 of Ramsdale, Coady, Ward-Prowse, Maguire*, Saka, White, Trippier or Bellingham might not make the actual 26-man squad?

*Maguire being a big doubt if he isn't fit enough in time. 

 

I can't see how anyone else gets dropped.

Bamford missing out is tough because of the amount of goals he's scored.  I hope Saka stays in. 

[LFCMike]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

You'd imagine 7 of Ramsdale, Coady, Ward-Prowse, Maguire*, Saka, White, Trippier or Bellingham might not make the actual 26-man squad?

*Maguire being a big doubt if he isn't fit enough in time. 

 

I can't see how anyone else gets dropped.

Bamford missing out is tough because of the amount of goals he's scored.  I hope Saka stays in. 

The talk before it was revealed they were naming a provisional squad was that TAA would miss out. 

[Danny]

19 minutes ago, Rick said:

Danny Ings not being in the squad is a bit of a joke. 

We play with one striker, meaning we need one back up, Watkins has had a better season than Ings, no point in bringing a 4th striker if you know you already have to cut the 3rd

[Danny]

I don't think there are any real losses in that squad?

[Whiskey]

43 minutes ago, Stan said:

You'd imagine 7 of Ramsdale, Coady, Ward-Prowse, Maguire*, Saka, White, Trippier or Bellingham might not make the actual 26-man squad?

*Maguire being a big doubt if he isn't fit enough in time. 

 

I can't see how anyone else gets dropped.

Bamford missing out is tough because of the amount of goals he's scored.  I hope Saka stays in. 

Bellingham should go.

[Danny]

Pickford, Henderson, Johnstone

Trent, Trippier, Walker, Maguire, Stones, Mings, Coady, Shaw, Chillwell

Mount, Henderson, Rice, Phillips, Bellingham, Lingard

Kane, Calvert-Lewin, Foden, Grealish, Sancho, Sterling, Greenwood, Rashford 

 

No Ramsdale, James, Godfrey, White, Ward-Prowse, Watkins, Saka.

Difficult to leave out Saka, I think he'd be in if it wasn't for the fact that Lingard's been on fire and we have two left footed forwards so don't need to worry as much there.

Mings in at centre back cos we need a left footed back up, ahead of Godfrey. No room for James with TAA and Trippier.

[Cicero]

Bizarre Tomori hasn't been called up. Rejuvenated Milan's defence . 

[Chaaay AFC]

This 33 man squad is nonsense from Southgate why bother picking players who clearly aren't going. Ramsdale, Godfrey, White, 4 RB's! 

Our attacking depth is class to be fair, our front 4 should be very exciting I do hope Southgate doesn't utilise a 3 at the back. We have too much attacking talent to sacrifice one for a defender. I do think this tournament has come a bit to early for Saka, probably for the best because he has played a lot of football this season and I do think Grealish and Foden are the better players as of right now. Also Greenwood and Lingards end of season form push him out. 

[Danny]

14 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Bizarre Tomori hasn't been called up. Rejuvenated Milan's defence . 

Probably the only real questionable omission, which from an England perspective is a success

[Rick]

1 hour ago, Danny said:

We play with one striker, meaning we need one back up, Watkins has had a better season than Ings, no point in bringing a 4th striker if you know you already have to cut the 3rd

I don’t think Calvert Lewin is better than Ings off the bench if we need a goal. 

[Stan]

Calvert-Lewin is far better than Ings. Surely that's clear to see!? 

He's also more reliable fitness-wise. Ings is more likely to play 1 game, get injured, and be a waste of a space in the squad. 

 

14 minutes ago, Chaaay AFC said:

This 33 man squad is nonsense from Southgate why bother picking players who clearly aren't going. Ramsdale, Godfrey, White, 4 RB's! 

Our attacking depth is class to be fair, our front 4 should be very exciting I do hope Southgate doesn't utilise a 3 at the back. We have too much attacking talent to sacrifice one for a defender. I do think this tournament has come a bit to early for Saka, probably for the best because he has played a lot of football this season and I do think Grealish and Foden are the better players as of right now. Also Greenwood and Lingards end of season form push him out. 

Agreed. Saka in the WC2022 squad is more likely. 

Also agree about the 3 at the back stunting the attacking intent and attacking quality. better off doing 4-3-3 with proper wingers to use their pace.

Pickford

TAA - Stones - Maguire* - Shaw

Mount - Phillips - Henderson

Foden - Kane - Sancho

 

The attacking depth is actually quite impressive. Having Sterling, Greenwood, Rashford, Grealish, Lingard (if he carries his form) is great.

Not sure who Southgate will pick if Maguire isn't available. It'll be Mings or Coady; I'd lean towards the latter as I think Mings is more prone to making an error. 

I've chosen Pickford and I think he will start with him, but wouldn't be too bothered if Henderson started. 

[Rick]

Calvert-Lewin is not far better than Ings  

[Whiskey]

Just now, Rick said:

Calvert-Lewin is not far better than Ings  

I'll have what you're smoking.

[Rick]

Just now, Whiskey said:

I'll have what you're smoking.

Sorry, I didn’t realise Calvert-Lewin was seen as some sort of unmatched elite striker. His numbers aren’t much better than Ings, and Ings has been out injured. 
 

Im not saying Ings eclipses Calvert Lewin as a footballer btw, there’s not a lot in it. I’m just saying I prefer him if it’s coming on for the last 10-15 mins to nab a goal. 

[RandoEFC+]

Henderson starting over Pickford would be daft. Pickford has been in really good form since about October. It's absurd how people are still just happy to assume that he's permanently in bad form because he had a couple of bad patches, and then pretend to be qualified to comment on whether he should be starting in goal for England or not. I wonder if anyone's seen him have a bad game recently? Made a big mistake? If he'd done anything wrong in the past few months, you would have heard all about it and you know it. Since he clattered Van Dijk in the derby which was about the 6th game of the season, he's made two minor mistakes, the goal he let in against Leicester at home vs Tielemans and the penalty he gave away against Chelsea which even then, he didn't really have a choice but to come for. I like Henderson but he hasn't proven himself to be reliable at the top level yet. Pope is a very reliable shot stopper but he doesn't have the same ability to knock the ball around the back line like Pickford does. He isn't perfect, he remains dodgy on crosses at times and a goalkeeper with unpredictable tendencies never really shakes them off completely, but he's the clear number one at the moment after stabilising his shaky form (at last). I'm not being biased either, I hate the majority of our players and he's probably been our Player of the Season for the dismal second half of the campaign although that admittedly isn't saying much.

I also don't agree with this 'provisional squad' thing. Pick your actual squad plus maybe a couple of players in positions where you haven't quite made up your mind, but even when you pick your final 26 players, that's including several that will get no or very few minutes. By all means have 5-6 players after that who you name as a list of reserves in case of injury. That's where the likes of Ramsdale, Godfrey, White, Saka etc. belong for the time being. Including them 'in the squad' is nothing more than a silly pat on the back for them.

Alexander-Arnold has to go this time. It was vaguely amusing watching all the Scouse not English brigade on social media lose their heads over him getting dropped from the previous squad while insisting that they were glad about it, but no credible manager can actually think that Reece James or Kieran Trippier are better footballers than him and more likely to help you win a tournament. I would certainly play Walker over him in some circumstances but teams that want to be dominating most games should be taking Alexander-Arnold to the tournament and utilising his attacking threat.

The midfield looks stronger than the World Cup three years ago. I think Rice is finally living up to the hype but I still think it's an area of the pitch where we'll get found out against the elite sides. Mount and Henderson are among those who have top class qualities but I don't know if Rice is quite ready to fill the Modric-type role of dominating the midfield to a high enough level.

Up front, I disagree that Ings should be ahead of either Calvert-Lewin or Watkins. In fact, with Calvert-Lewin's fairly lukewarm second half of the season, there's a case for taking Watkins as the first backup for Harry Kane. I wouldn't quite go that far though. Calvert-Lewin has moulded himself into a poacher and Everton failing to dominate games is the main reason for his dip in scoring output in the second half of the domestic season, rather than a personal loss of form. It's not like he's missing chances or there are crosses going into an empty box where he should be. I think he carries a sizeable goal threat off the bench and is probably a better impact player than Watkins. Could be room for both yet but probably not given that Rashford and Sterling are both options to play central as well if needed.

[Cicero]

23 minutes ago, Stan said:

 

Pickford

TAA - Stones - Maguire* - Shaw

Mount - Phillips - Henderson

Foden - Kane - Sancho

 

Have to get Grealish in there somehow. Having Rashford and Sterling off the bench would be ideal against tired legs. 

This England team really only needs one sitter. Two would be incredibly redundant with all the attacking talent you have. 

[Stan]

3 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Have to get Grealish in there somehow. Having Rashford and Sterling off the bench would be ideal against tired legs. 

This England team really only needs one sitter. Two would be incredibly redundant with all the attacking talent you have. 

I swapped he and Henderson before settling on the above. But he's more productive in that LW position but whether he picked Sancho/Sterling/Grealish it's a strong choice in any case.

 

5 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Henderson starting over Pickford would be daft. Pickford has been in really good form since about October. It's absurd how people are still just happy to assume that he's permanently in bad form because he had a couple of bad patches, and then pretend to be qualified to comment on whether he should be starting in goal for England or not. I wonder if anyone's seen him have a bad game recently? Made a big mistake? If he'd done anything wrong in the past few months, you would have heard all about it and you know it. Since he clattered Van Dijk in the derby which was about the 6th game of the season, he's made two minor mistakes, the goal he let in against Leicester at home vs Tielemans and the penalty he gave away against Chelsea which even then, he didn't really have a choice but to come for. I like Henderson but he hasn't proven himself to be reliable at the top level yet. Pope is a very reliable shot stopper but he doesn't have the same ability to knock the ball around the back line like Pickford does. He isn't perfect, he remains dodgy on crosses at times and a goalkeeper with unpredictable tendencies never really shakes them off completely, but he's the clear number one at the moment after stabilising his shaky form (at last). I'm not being biased either, I hate the majority of our players and he's probably been our Player of the Season for the dismal second half of the campaign although that admittedly isn't saying much.

Considering everyone has picked Pickford so far, you've got ultra-defensive and I'm not entirely sure who you're arguing or debating against . 

Who's assumed he's in permanently bad form? Who's said he's made a bad mistake or had a bad game recently? 

The reason I made the comment about not being bothered if Henderson started isn't a slant on Pickford and I know you'll defend him to the hilt, which is fine. It's more that there's bigger decisions or dilemmas across the squad. Pickford would be the main starter for me 99.99% of the time, but if Southgate chose Henderson for one of the games, I wouldn't be that angry. 

[Cicero]

On 20/05/2021 at 10:39, Cicero said:

 

Pickford

Walker--Stones--Maguire--Shaw

Rice

----------------Mount

Sancho----Foden---Grealish

Kane

 

Still think this is the best way to go. Maybe drop Foden for Henderson or Philips against sides likelier to dominate the midfield. 

[RandoEFC+]

34 minutes ago, Stan said:

Considering everyone has picked Pickford so far, you've got ultra-defensive and I'm not entirely sure who you're arguing or debating against . 

Who's assumed he's in permanently bad form? Who's said he's made a bad mistake or had a bad game recently? 

The reason I made the comment about not being bothered if Henderson started isn't a slant on Pickford and I know you'll defend him to the hilt, which is fine. It's more that there's bigger decisions or dilemmas across the squad. Pickford would be the main starter for me 99.99% of the time, but if Southgate chose Henderson for one of the games, I wouldn't be that angry. 

It's not 'ultra-defensive' though is it? It's just me laying out my reasons in detail.

Commentators/social media experts sometimes still talk about the England no. 1 spot as if it's a big debating point. It really was at one point when Pickford had been in patchy form for several months, maybe even over a year, but at this point in time I don't think it really is. It has died down to an extent because most commentators have realised that Pickford has improved markedly this season and Pope/Henderson are yet to make an irresistible case for the shirt themselves, but there remains a section of lazy onlookers who refuse to reassess their pre-established narrative and have probably watched about 4 Everton games this season who think that they know better than you because you're automatically biased as an Evertonian. If I took issue solely with what you'd said, I would have quoted you and met it head on, and I'm not talking about you or your comment specifically in this paragraph either.

For what it's worth though, if I was a die-hard England fan instead of a pretty casual supporter, unlike you I'd be pretty bothered to see Henderson starting a game in a major tournament ahead of Pickford because it's such a needless risk to throw in a relatively inexperienced player ahead of the guy who's been the established number one since the last tournament and over the past 3 years who, for all his wobbles at club level in that time, still hasn't actually let the national team down in any significant way. The time will come. Pickford has flaws that I don't think he'll ever completely shake off but he's a good goalkeeper overall. Henderson has a high enough ceiling that I think he can overtake Pickford with more experience and development but suddenly in a major tournament isn't the time. 

I won't back Pickford to the hilt either. In fact, I've pointed out his biggest flaws. I just think that it's justified on this occasion to make the case in his favour. Just because he's an Everton player doesn't change my reasoning behind thinking he's a clear number one at the moment. I frequently get accused of being biased in this debate, despite me always pointing out that it isn't just Pickford who has had this treatment, that it isn't about Everton and that it happens to all England number one goalkeepers. It's a bit tedious because the only bias and hysteria that comes into this debate generally comes from the people who are addicted to always over-analysing who's ready to be the new England goalkeeper, so that the last one can be "he's shite and he was always shite" for the rest of his career like David James, Joe Hart, etc. and the new one can be the best goalkeeper in the world for a few months before the cycle resets.

[Chaaay AFC]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

Calvert-Lewin is far better than Ings. Surely that's clear to see!? 

He's also more reliable fitness-wise. Ings is more likely to play 1 game, get injured, and be a waste of a space in the squad. 

 

Agreed. Saka in the WC2022 squad is more likely. 

Also agree about the 3 at the back stunting the attacking intent and attacking quality. better off doing 4-3-3 with proper wingers to use their pace.

Pickford

TAA - Stones - Maguire* - Shaw

Mount - Phillips - Henderson

Foden - Kane - Sancho

 

The attacking depth is actually quite impressive. Having Sterling, Greenwood, Rashford, Grealish, Lingard (if he carries his form) is great.

Not sure who Southgate will pick if Maguire isn't available. It'll be Mings or Coady; I'd lean towards the latter as I think Mings is more prone to making an error. 

I've chosen Pickford and I think he will start with him, but wouldn't be too bothered if Henderson started. 

Yeah a lot of attacking talent, really think its all about getting the balance right. I do think one of Sterling or Rashford will have to start to potentially add that goal threat. Then Sancho and Foden or Mount with Kane up top could be sensational. Feels harsh to leave someone as good as Grealish out.

I just hope Southgate goes for it, I mean a defence of Trent/Tripper/Walker, Stones, Maguire and Shaw with a base of Henderson if fit and Rice is extremely solid. 

[DNA]

2 hours ago, Danny said:

Pickford, Henderson, Johnstone

Trent, Trippier, Walker, Maguire, Stones, Mings, Coady, Shaw, Chillwell

Mount, Henderson, Rice, Phillips, Bellingham, Lingard

Kane, Calvert-Lewin, Foden, Grealish, Sancho, Sterling, Greenwood, Rashford 

 

No Ramsdale, James, Godfrey, White, Ward-Prowse, Watkins, Saka.

Difficult to leave out Saka, I think he'd be in if it wasn't for the fact that Lingard's been on fire and we have two left footed forwards so don't need to worry as much there.

Mings in at centre back cos we need a left footed back up, ahead of Godfrey. No room for James with TAA and Trippier.

Reece James is about to start a Champions League final and he’s been a standout for Chelsea, also given Southgates home bias I think he might edge Trippier. Great to see Ramsdale there as he’s definitely improved for us but an obvious one for the cut, along with the others you’ve mentioned. 

[Danny]

17 minutes ago, DNA said:

Reece James is about to start a Champions League final and he’s been a standout for Chelsea, also given Southgates home bias I think he might edge Trippier. Great to see Ramsdale there as he’s definitely improved for us but an obvious one for the cut, along with the others you’ve mentioned. 

Maybe but Reece James imo isn’t as good as TAA and Southgate loves Trippier

Trippier just won La Liga which is a bigger achievement too