Donald Trump

[Inverted]

Had to laugh at his inability to understand why Norwegians don't want to emigrate to the USA.

From their perspective, the USA is a shithole. 

[God is Haaland]

1 hour ago, Inverted said:

Had to laugh at his inability to understand why Norwegians don't want to emigrate to the USA.

From their perspective, the USA is a shithole. 

When was he confronted with that?

[Inverted]

11 minutes ago, BartraPique1932 said:

When was he confronted with that?

Part of this whole "shithole" fiasco was that he's apparently said he wants less immigrants from Haiti and Africa and more from countries like Norway.

[God is Haaland]

8 minutes ago, Inverted said:

Part of this whole "shithole" fiasco was that he's apparently said he wants less immigrants from Haiti and Africa and more from countries like Norway.

Thanks.

[6666]

Now there's news about how he paid off a pornstar just before the election because he had an affiar with her some years ago. With how much of an embarrassment he's been, this news doesn't even sound that controversial. 

[Honey Honey]

Having sex with a porn star would probably go down well with some of his fans. Even if he was married.

[Fairy In Boots]

It’s a Bannon story isn’t it, 100 women were paid off? Since when did Bannon have so much credit with Trumps enemies? 

I’m taking the porno story with a pinch of salt. Whatever has gone on Bannon’s world appears to be unraveling quickly. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

If we're believing accusers of people who are not president, I'm not sure why we'd hold the president to a different standard. That's two pornstars that have talked about the same incident, and we know that Trump and Stormy Daniels have been in the same place together at least once because they were photographed together.

Some of Trump's senate enablers, Cotton and Purdue, are marking this MLK holiday in the US by coming forward saying they didn't realize Trump said "shithole" countries and didn't come forward because they thought he said "shithouse." I think the response should be: 1.) Bullshit, 2.) That word doesn't make any sense, 3.) Even if he did use that word... that literally doesn't make it any better by one iota. I don't understand what the point of this kind of stupid statement is if it's not just an attempt to control the narrative and spew more bullshit to people.

[Fairy In Boots]

So what’s the crack then Americans? 

Dow at record highs? 

what gives? I thought he was shit? All I see is constant attempts to play it down

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Fairy In Boots said:

So what’s the crack then Americans? 

Dow at record highs? 

what gives? I thought he was shit? All I see is constant attempts to play it down

Is the stock market the best indicator of long term economic strength though? It's more of a barometer on investor confidence - and the belief that low taxes and low regulations will be good for profits. Good for people that have money in the stock market (like me) or have retirement investments (also like me), but not necessarily for a lot of working class families - or people who might be empathetic to people that haven't 

The thing about the taxes and higher profits for corporations is more about short term wealth creation for those at the very top, and the hopefulness that the money will make its way down to the people not at the top. Evidence has suggested though, that higher profits for companies do not necessarily translate to more people being employed (thus spending money and making more of a contribution to the economy). Because having more cash lying around does not necessarily equal more jobs being created - more demand for products and services leads to companies hiring more. If I'm running a perfectly profitable business and demand stays the exact same, why hire more people? This would cut into the profits with no real benefit, which would piss off shareholders as they want to get the most dividends possible.

When poor people get a substantial tax cut, they'll spend their increased wealth on more goods and services. When rich people get a substantial tax cut, they save their money. Trump is lowering my federal taxable income and (thank fucking Christ) the SALT tax deduction from the federal income tax being reduced doesn't actually impact me. So it's good for me and my bank balance - but it's not really good for America to be adding trillions to the deficit. Especially with the fucked up priorities America has on how to spend federal tax revenue.

In fact, it's good for plenty of coastal "elitists" lol. But we've already layoffs introduced since the tax bill was passed (some companies sneakily did this at the same time as making public announcements of the bonuses they were giving to the workers they weren't firing).

If you're a rich person who only gives a shit about your bank balance, then yeah, Trump is fucking fantastic so far. But if thinking the growing wage divide between classes is an issue that should be properly addressed, or if you think the US government should spend less time focusing on spending for it's already incredibly expensive military and making a wall (which already exists) bigger and better for some reason, and instead focus on it's crumbling infrastructure and taking care of the numerous fucking domestic issues - it's not really great.

And even if his tax cuts spur further corporate investment, there's no guarantee this investment will be labour-using investment at all. In fact, many industries are pushing forward for labour-saving investments - like automation. This could lead to higher overall investment spending, but with fewer jobs at lower wages.

And ultimately, making an argument about how well Trump is doing purely the stock market and Apple's announcement is asking people to ignore a lot of negatives about the Trump administration. There is plenty for rational people to be concerned with: 1.) the dissolution of environmental protection laws; 2.) the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau's castration; 3.) the cozying up with authoritarians like Putin, Duterte, Erdogan, etc... while doing his best to alienate the US's traditional allies; 4.) the brazen corruption; 5.) the constant attacks on the free press; 6.) the break-down of the rule of law expected of US public officials; 7.) emboldening neo-Nazis.

These things all set Trump apart from an ordinary fiscal conservative politician. And that's why he's got very low approval ratings and why the democrats have flipped so many seats since his inauguration.

You also might want to take a look at how the Dow Jones was doing before October of 1929 before you point to the stock market being a great indicator of economic strength. It's always best to remember it's a barometer of short term investor confidence more than anything else.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

34th districts have flipped from red to blue since Trump became president. A democrat in Wisconsin scored a 9 point upset in a district that trump won by 17! Even the Koch's money(ads) couldn't stop the upset. Victories in alabama, Oklahoma, and Virginia show that its not as good as trump supporters make it out to be. Trump has trouble with his own party
.

I think the polarising nature of Trump definitely is a major factor in the Republicans losing ground in national, statewide, and local elections - but there's also the big issue of the huuuge divides within the GOP right now. There's 3 groups that are pretty distinct - old school traditional GOP conservatives, rabid extremist Tea Party/Freedom Caucus types, and then the moderate Republicans in the "purple" states. The GOP was united in opposition to Obama, but it's evident that there were no real policy plans in place for a time where the GOP would have both houses and the White House. It doesn't look like a party that's planned to govern.

And in the Obamacare repeal, they tried to pass a bill that was incredibly unpopular and narrowly failed - but with the wealthcare bill (the tax bill) it was incredibly unpopular and narrowly passed. Even with an absolute moron at the helm of the executive branch, you'd think a party with so much control in US politics would do more than just pass 1 bill that year.

But it's no surprise that an unpopular president with divisive policies coupled with legislators that are just ineffectual at governing are not popular with the voting public.

[The Artful Dodger]

On 18/01/2018 at 21:04, Fairy In Boots said:

So what’s the crack then Americans? 

Dow at record highs? 

what gives? I thought he was shit? All I see is constant attempts to play it down

Using the stock market to gauge his relative success is not going to go down well with the vast swathes who voted for Trump.

His tax cuts will obviously draw in investment, it won't trickle down though.

[Inverted]

One of the best ways to grow your share capitalisation tends to be exploiting your workers more intensely. Until I own a very substantial amount of shares I don't really care about how well the market is doing.

Real wages, life expectancy, healthcare access, utilities prices, tuition fees? Yeah that stuff's kinda interesting to normal people. 

[Honey Honey]

24 minutes ago, Inverted said:

One of the best ways to grow your share capitalisation tends to be exploiting your workers more intensely. Until I own a very substantial amount of shares I don't really care about how well the market is doing.

Real wages, life expectancy, healthcare access, utilities prices, tuition fees? Yeah that stuff's kinda interesting to normal people. 

You probably should though.

The stock market is key for pensions, insurance costs, savings, jobs, consumption. 

When it crashes chances are normal people are going to feel it. Our lives are financially interwoven with stocks and shares. 

Trump is a simplistic bullshit politician. If the stock market was going down he'd claim that as a win. Anything that happens is a win to him. He doesn't add the context to anything because the context is complex and uncertain. The stock market is a win he says, leaving out the depreciation of the dollar, the record use of debt to purchase shares, the years of QE, the gambling element etc. etc. Add a bit of context and you lose the certainty of the win, it all goes up in the air, intelligent people are full of doubt. Trump removes intelligence from discourse. He's a demagogue that relies on the conception of the world as a disaster, winners and losers, good versus evil. We are all guilty of contributing to that world view at some point.

[Inverted]

9 minutes ago, Kitchen Sales said:

You probably should though.

The stock market is key for pensions, insurance costs, savings, jobs, consumption. 

When it crashes chances are normal people are going to feel it. Our lives are financially interwoven with stocks and shares. 

Trump is a simplistic bullshit politician. If the stock market was going down he'd claim that as a win. Anything that happens is a win to him. He doesn't add the context to anything because the context is complex and uncertain. The stock market is a win he says, leaving out the depreciation of the dollar, the record use of debt to purchase shares, the years of QE, the gambling element etc. etc. Add a bit of context and you lose the certainty of the win, it all goes up in the air, intelligent people are full of doubt. Trump removes intelligence from discourse. He's a demagogue that relies on the conception of the world as a disaster, winners and losers, good versus evil. We are all guilty of contributing to that world view at some point.

Of course that's true, but the point I was trying to was that, as you explain, that any impact people feel from the market is measurable in more useful ways than simply looking at the index. Unless it's a dramatic drop, it's not exactly obvious what effect any particular fluctuation will have on the average person.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Russia introduces their Satan 2 nuclear warhead with a video of a depiction of the bomb hitting the US. Not a peep on sanctions (passed by the US legislature & waiting for implementation from the Trump administration... and still haven't been) or condemnation of Putin. Instead, let's tweet about Alec fucking Baldwin. Priorities!

And he's tweeted that: "Trade wars are good and easy to win."

[Dr. Gonzo]

Lots of stuff has happened in Mueller's investigation since the last time it was discussed here. Now members of Trump's inner circle are targeted by his subpoenas. One of his advisors, Sam Nunberg, and a protégé of Roger Stone (who's routinely in contact with Julian Assange... doing no favours to Trump in trying to stay away from Russian ties) is saying he's going to refuse the Grand Jury subpoena and calling all of the major US news outlets in some insane meltdowns. He sounds a bit drunk, imo, pretty hilarious. Opens him up to jail time for contempt of court for refusing a court order too.

British intelligence is also saying they reported Trump's routine contacts with Russia during the campaign to the CIA: https://www.businessinsider.com/uk-told-cia-about-trump-russia-contacts-before-election-2018-3

And another former-British spy is suggesting that the spineless Mitt Romney was rejected as Secretary of State on Russia's say so: https://www.rawstory.com/2018/03/british-ex-spy-reveals-kremlin-blocked-trump-naming-mitt-romney-secretary-state-report/

Meanwhile the Trump Hotel in Panama was raided by police looking to evict Trump staff.

[Tommy]

[6666]

What the fuck kind of president is this? 

[Fairy In Boots]

Aside from all the Twitter idiocy there may well be some kind of diplomatic victory on the horizon with North Korea. The question is what’s he given up to get them to abandon the nukes? 

Promisses to let them carry on as normal? Food aid?

[Dr. Gonzo]

I doubt a man who couldn't negotiate a settlement with a pornstar can negotiate North Korean nuclear disarmament.

[Fairy In Boots]

Time will tell, if he pulls it off all those 18 months into a Twitter inspired hissy fit will become even more irrelevant than they already are. I’m betting on him winning again in 2020 at this rate

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Time will tell, if he pulls it off all those 18 months into a Twitter inspired hissy fit will become even more irrelevant than they already are. I’m betting on him winning again in 2020 at this rate

China, Russia, and Saudi Arabia have shown how you negotiate successfully with Trump. Put on a show for him to make him feel special, shower him with praise, and you'll get pretty much whatever you want. All Kim Jong has to do is put on a military parade for Trump and call his leadership strong and Trump will be putty in his hands like he was with the Saudis.

If North Korea can get sanctions lifted, then Russia and China can begin construction of oil pipelines through North Korea. And this, like North Korean nuclear capability, would create further stability for his regime. The chances of the West using aggression on North Korea are much lower when it could involve attacking Russian and Chinese state owned enterprises. Nothing in Trump's presidency indicates he'll be able to make the most of it, this is probably a huge blunder from Moon Jae--In in arranging this.

If he manages to pull something off and actually make the world a safer place, then good for him - he'll have actually done something good for once. But forgive my skepticism.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Looks like it won't be happening now: https://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/03/never-mind-the-north-korea-meeting-trump-was-just-babbling.html

The US has always put conditions on North Korea if their leader is to meet the US President. So this is just the same as Obama saying he'd be willing to meet with Kim Jong (which did not get the same praise from the conservative media, by the way, strange) but only if conditions are in place.

[bozziovai]

after north korea  here comes his tariff on steel against china.