UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[RandoEFC+]

Tory backbencher William Wragg has accused the government and Number 10's special advisors of blackmailing rebels to support the Prime Minister by threatening to withdraw funding from their constituencies. Wragg has suggested those on the receiving end should go to the police to report it.

Astonishing on several levels really. Wragg can shove it up his backside because none of these Tory backbenchers had a problem with the government using "vote for a Conservative MP and we'll give your constituency more funding" as a campaigning strategy which was raised around the time of the Hartlepool by-election and is absolute gutter politics. According to Wragg and his friends, though, blackmailing the electorate to get them to vote Tory is fine but dare to blackmail a Tory MP and we'll report you to the police.

I absolutely despise this lot. I know increasing funding in constituencies your party needs to win in order to stay in power isn't new or exclusive to the Conservatives, but the way they've gone about it is absolutely vile. Conservative government refuses to fund Labour-voting constituencies for a decade, then campaigns on a platform of "look how your Labour MP has let you down and taken you for granted" when said constituencies start rotting at the edges, go on to win the constituencies that they've actively and cynically neglected for years while peddling pure guff about "levelling up". No interest in the betterment of this country or its population at all, just pure power-grabbing. 

While it's good that Wragg has had a pop at the government in that it damages Johnson, it would be nice if one day the political discourse in this country taken up by Tory in-fighting could drop below 90%. Wragg will now stand up and claimed to be an "old-fashioned Conservative with principles" or something like that when all he's actually doing is saying "blackmail the electorate to keep us in power all you want but I absolutely draw the line when it comes to you threatening my mates on the back benches!"

Shithouses.

[Inverted]

People like the present-day Tory party are why things like the Reign of Terror rightfully happen in times of social upheaval. 

[Waylander]

Britain never had the guillotine, interesting to hear about the rise of Eric Zemmour in France. 

 

[RandoEFC+]

Most of Zemmour's vote share has come from a fall in Le Pen's support. All he's really done is split the right-wing vote. A lot of right-wing commentators have touted him as a guy who's inspiring people to turn to their politics. He isn't. Macron's polling levels are largely unchanged and Le Pen's have divebombed.

The polls mid-2021 had Le Pen and Macron neck and neck at around 25% each. Most recent data shows Macron still at 25%, Le Pen 17%, Zemmour 13%. There's a shift there but barely commentworthy.

[Inverted]

1 hour ago, Waylander said:

Britain never had the guillotine, interesting to hear about the rise of Eric Zemmour in France. 

 

And it shows.

If we had snuffed out a few thousand aristocrats back when it was in vogue, we would have tens of thousands less of their depraved, inbred descendants to cope with today. 

 

[Waylander]

14 hours ago, Inverted said:

And it shows.

If we had snuffed out a few thousand aristocrats back when it was in vogue, we would have tens of thousands less of their depraved, inbred descendants to cope with today. 

Haha, certainly a consideration though France got Napoleon as a result of all their shenanigans which led to major conflict on the European continent for a decade. 

[RandoEFC+]

 

I swear every time I pick up my phone the government have managed to get into yet another self-inflicted scandal.

Conservative MP Nusrat Ghani made a claim earlier tonight that one of the party whips told her she was sacked from her minor ministerial role because her being a Muslim woman made some of the other MPs in the party uncomfortable or something.

Chief whip Mark Spencer then identified himself as the whip in question simultaneously denying the accusation (if you didn't say it, how do you know she was referring to you!?). He then posted this thread on Twitter and promptly deleted it.

This lot are so wrapped up in their network of psychodrama that they have no time and energy left to do anything but cling on to power. Forget about governing the country. Whole lot need bombing out. Every day that passes is a day too many.

[MUFC]

 

[Stan]

Will love to see how the accusations from Ghani pan out for the Tories. They were (somehow) cleared of any wrongdoing in the inquiry into Islamophobia in the party.

So if this gets taken seriously, like the Azeem Rafiq/Yorkshire inquiry, I suspect (and at least, hope!) there'll be some severe consequences for the Tories.

There's been other claims that Muslims almost avert going into the party because they are told their faith will get in the way.

[RandoEFC+]

Just now, Stan said:

Will love to see how the accusations from Ghani pan out for the Tories. They were (somehow) cleared of any wrongdoing in the inquiry into Islamophobia in the party.

So if this gets taken seriously, like the Azeem Rafiq/Yorkshire inquiry, I suspect (and at least, hope!) there'll be some severe consequences for the Tories.

There's been other claims that Muslims almost avert going into the party because they are told their faith will get in the way.

The Boris superfans are out in force trying to stamp it out. Mainly seems to be "she was invited to use the internal complaints process and she didn't" when she said in her original statement that she was threatened with her career being ruined by people above her if she didn't let it go.

[Stan]

3 minutes ago, RondónEFC said:

The Boris superfans are out in force trying to stamp it out. Mainly seems to be "she was invited to use the internal complaints process and she didn't" when she said in her original statement that she was threatened with her career being ruined by people above her if she didn't let it go.

I think it speaks volumes that she chose not to use the complaints process to be honest.

[RandoEFC+]

 

"If Boris Johnson is still Prime Minister by the end of the week, I'd be very surprised."

I'm not sure it quite works like that but I'll be getting the popcorn in. Hopefully he fights on and extends the long, slow death of his disgraceful premiership, doing as much electoral damage to the Tories as possible in the process.

[Danny]

Unless this turns into an election I don’t really see how much we’ll actually benefit from him leaving. Don’t get me wrong he’s a massive cunt but a cunt replaced by another cunt is still a cunt 

[RandoEFC+]

1 minute ago, Danny said:

Unless this turns into an election I don’t really see how much we’ll actually benefit from him leaving. Don’t get me wrong he’s a massive cunt but a cunt replaced by another cunt is still a cunt 

Their politics might be no better but at least we won't have to be embarrassed every time we switch the news on that a man who can barely dress himself is the best a country of 70 million people can muster for a leader. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

20 minutes ago, RondónEFC said:

Their politics might be no better but at least we won't have to be embarrassed every time we switch the news on that a man who can barely dress himself is the best a country of 70 million people can muster for a leader. 

It’ll just be a better dressed dickhead who knows how to comb his hair though.

It’ll still be embarrassing that the UK’s run by the same party that’s run the country into the ground for a decade.

[RandoEFC+]

If people still think that there isn't a difference between Johnson and any other Tory then I just don't think you've been observing the same Johnson that I have.

I despise the politics of the Tory Party as much as anyone but no other government in my lifetime have sunk to the levels of dishonesty and depravity as this administration has (in an incredibly short period of time too).

Cameron was a horrific PM who brought us austerity and then the referendum. Probably had the most odious and damaging policies of any of them but at least that's the platform on which he campaigned and at least he resigned after losing the EU vote. If that was Johnson in the same position then he would have just tried to ride it out.

May was an absolute waste of time and you needn't say anything more about her than "Windrush". Still, she was working to the same conditions as Johnson when it came to signing a Brexit deal and she refused to implement a border between Northern Ireland and Britain. Johnson comes along and signs off on that with one hand while he's writing a tweet with his other hand announcing how he's successfully signed a deal to Get Brexit Done! without having to implement a border in the Irish Sea.

Let's not forget all of the racial slurs, homophobia, sexism, spending of public money on his affair with Arcuri, etc. etc.

Finally, there's nobody in the Tory party who can emulate the bizarre electoral success that Johnson has delivered. Sunak is the only one who has a bit of a foundation of popularity but when it comes to writing a manifesto, he leans toward Camerony austere economics and that's where his power base comes from in the party. He won't be able to maintain his authority as leader without an old-fashioned conservative plan for the economy but it's a plan that the electorate has absolutely no appetite for anymore.

Never count out the Tories with the might of the British print media backing them up. Things might change and Keir Starmer is no nailed on winner but the way things are set right now, they've got a lot of trouble ahead with or without Johnson in charge. All polling shows that the last few months have done broad damage to their standing and not just his individually. There's a genuine chance coming up to get them out of power for the first time in a horrifically long time and while what gets posted on here isn't going to make any difference, if too many people keep thinking and saying that the rest of them are all as bad as Johnson then the political standards in this country are going to keep getting worse.

[Dr. Gonzo]

6 hours ago, RondónEFC said:

If people still think that there isn't a difference between Johnson and any other Tory then I just don't think you've been observing the same Johnson that I have.

I despise the politics of the Tory Party as much as anyone but no other government in my lifetime have sunk to the levels of dishonesty and depravity as this administration has (in an incredibly short period of time too).

Cameron was a horrific PM who brought us austerity and then the referendum. Probably had the most odious and damaging policies of any of them but at least that's the platform on which he campaigned and at least he resigned after losing the EU vote. If that was Johnson in the same position then he would have just tried to ride it out.

May was an absolute waste of time and you needn't say anything more about her than "Windrush". Still, she was working to the same conditions as Johnson when it came to signing a Brexit deal and she refused to implement a border between Northern Ireland and Britain. Johnson comes along and signs off on that with one hand while he's writing a tweet with his other hand announcing how he's successfully signed a deal to Get Brexit Done! without having to implement a border in the Irish Sea.

Let's not forget all of the racial slurs, homophobia, sexism, spending of public money on his affair with Arcuri, etc. etc.

Finally, there's nobody in the Tory party who can emulate the bizarre electoral success that Johnson has delivered. Sunak is the only one who has a bit of a foundation of popularity but when it comes to writing a manifesto, he leans toward Camerony austere economics and that's where his power base comes from in the party. He won't be able to maintain his authority as leader without an old-fashioned conservative plan for the economy but it's a plan that the electorate has absolutely no appetite for anymore.

Never count out the Tories with the might of the British print media backing them up. Things might change and Keir Starmer is no nailed on winner but the way things are set right now, they've got a lot of trouble ahead with or without Johnson in charge. All polling shows that the last few months have done broad damage to their standing and not just his individually. There's a genuine chance coming up to get them out of power for the first time in a horrifically long time and while what gets posted on here isn't going to make any difference, if too many people keep thinking and saying that the rest of them are all as bad as Johnson then the political standards in this country are going to keep getting worse.

I think Boris is just a symptom of the disease of American style political rhetoric flowing into the UK.

Now that we’ve had a PM like Johnson, the floodgates are opened and I think there’s no turning back. Like with the US and Trump’s political rise - the ultra-conservatives there (because I think most democrats are actually very conservative) have fully embraced Trumpism… I suspect Boris and Farage style politicians are here to stay with the Tories and we’ll probably see politicians like them for the rest of our lives.

I think it’s a byproduct of the media treating partisan politics like it’s the same as supporting a football side. Tribalism and divisive politics makes them money and people like Boris tap into that.

[Stan]

Yeah not having Johnson but having to choose from guff like Patel, Gove, Truss or Raab is like choosing to have your left hand cut off or your right hand. 

Johnson has all that exterior appearance to be embarrassed by on top of his prejudices, but then look how all of the above pretty much clamour to defend him instead of speaking out against any wrongdoings. 

[LFCMike]

9 hours ago, RondónEFC said:

 

"If Boris Johnson is still Prime Minister by the end of the week, I'd be very surprised."

I'm not sure it quite works like that but I'll be getting the popcorn in. Hopefully he fights on and extends the long, slow death of his disgraceful premiership, doing as much electoral damage to the Tories as possible in the process.

The amount of times we've heard that over the last few months.

[RandoEFC+]

Christ it's like a morgue around here. The defeatism is off the scale! Gone from believing there was a genuine chance of a Corbynite revolution to thinking Boris Johnson going down isn't worth celebrating because everything is just shit.

Each to their own, I'll be having myself a glass of wine or two when he's no longer Prime Minister.

[Stan]

37 minutes ago, RondónEFC said:

Christ it's like a morgue around here. The defeatism is off the scale! Gone from believing there was a genuine chance of a Corbynite revolution to thinking Boris Johnson going down isn't worth celebrating because everything is just shit.

Each to their own, I'll be having myself a glass of wine or two when he's no longer Prime Minister.

Come on mate, I think a lot of people will!

But then that glass of wine (or two, or the bottle) finishes and then you begin to think who might take over...

 

The positive out of all of this, mind, is that under Johnson a lot of the Tories seem to have shown their true colours. And Starmer/Labour have never been in a stronger position - they're in a good position while letting their opposition crumble off their own accord. That'll continue for the foreseeable, especially so the longer Johnson tries to hold out and save any amount of face. 

[LFCMike]

25 minutes ago, RondónEFC said:

Christ it's like a morgue around here. The defeatism is off the scale! Gone from believing there was a genuine chance of a Corbynite revolution to thinking Boris Johnson going down isn't worth celebrating because everything is just shit.

Each to their own, I'll be having myself a glass of wine or two when he's no longer Prime Minister.

I hope he's a goner, I'll believe it when I see it though. They must know that whoever his replacement is won't have the same kind of appeal in some of the seats they gained at the last election. It's bizarre but he seems to appeal to people in some of those working class areas. There will be plenty who aren't arsed about the parties because 'he got Brexit done' or something.

[RandoEFC+]

17 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

I hope he's a goner, I'll believe it when I see it though. They must know that whoever his replacement is won't have the same kind of appeal in some of the seats they gained at the last election. It's bizarre but he seems to appeal to people in some of those working class areas. There will be plenty who aren't arsed about the parties because 'he got Brexit done' or something.

Yeah the thing is they're polling like shit in those constituencies though. There was an in-depth "Red Wall" poll over the weekend. People largely think Boris Johnson is a liar now and Brexit just doesn't register as a priority. They also did some hypothetical polling of which way they'd vote at the next election depending on the Conservative leader. Under Johnson, Labour are projected to win back 45 of the 48 seats they lost in 2019 and under every other leader apart from Sunak, who was projected to a bit better than Johnson, the Tories are polling even worse.

It's a shame there isn't an election tomorrow because the Tories certainly wouldn't get a majority and Labour might even get one themselves without a coalition. Just got to hope this shit sticks in the long-term and Starmer makes a decent case when the next election comes. The Tories are in a lose-lose at the moment though. Johnson has shot his bolt and it looks impossible for him to chart a path to recovery, and they don't have an obvious replacement who is anything more than just palatable in Sunak, who's economic policies are likely to go down very poorly in the seats they need to keep.

We'll see anyway. Regardless of what it means electorally, I'll enjoy the retribution of Johnson having to go down in history as having an even shorter stint as PM than Theresa May after spending a lifetime lying and cheating his way through with that one goal in mind. Couldn't happen to a nicer bloke.

[Dr. Gonzo]

9 hours ago, RondónEFC said:

Christ it's like a morgue around here. The defeatism is off the scale! Gone from believing there was a genuine chance of a Corbynite revolution to thinking Boris Johnson going down isn't worth celebrating because everything is just shit.

Each to their own, I'll be having myself a glass of wine or two when he's no longer Prime Minister.

I'll be happy when he's gone for sure, I will probably drink a few beers in celebration.

But yeah you're right, I don't have much optimism about the political atmosphere in the UK (and honestly in most places around the world).

[Stan]

*in DJ Khaled's voice* AND ANOTHER ONE