UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[DeadLinesman]

27 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

At first I thought this Arsenal fan wanted to die due to how bad our defence was but it turned out that he was willing to die for his country. A TRUE PATRIOT that to be honest, made me shed a tear with emotion.

 

What a fucking crank 

[Dr. Gonzo]

46 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

At first I thought this Arsenal fan wanted to die due to how bad our defence was but it turned out that he was willing to die for his country. A TRUE PATRIOT that to be honest, made me shed a tear with emotion.

 

What a fucking moron 

[Stan]

4 hours ago, SirBalon said:

At first I thought this Arsenal fan wanted to die due to how bad our defence was but it turned out that he was willing to die for his country. A TRUE PATRIOT that to be honest, made me shed a tear with emotion.

 

 

3 hours ago, DeadLinesman said:

What a fucking crank 

 

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

What a fucking moron 

Waiting for all the ultra-Brexiteers to claim he's an actor and is fake  

[RandoEFC+]

There's literally millions of people as equally stupid and brainwashed as this bloke up and down the country and that's the problem we face with trying to approach this debate with a semblance of reason over the past 4 years.

[Harry]

Just take a second vote. Deal or no Deal. If No Deal gets a majority even the remain camp could only settle down and buckle in for the ride.

[RandoEFC+]

[SirBalon]

I'm gonna go into using a bit of semantics and forget the utter ridiculousness of the crap that came out of his mouth by focusing on one mini sentence; "We voted to leave Europe!"

Now I do appreciate that over emotional bafoons can mix the two but trust me when I say that idiots like this are of the same species as those that let off the rhetoric of being more in tune and united to the USA while being more moderate in their criticisms of the orange oaf across the Atlantic Ocean... In other words it isn't a lapse of jargon and is infact a fantastical belief that they think by leaving the European Union we will somehow drift across the Atlantic enough to not be a geographical fact of the continent we pertain to.

And people like these have a vote that means as much as mine? Well they did say that fools would sign with an 'X' back in the days of illiteracy.

[Harry]

9 hours ago, SirBalon said:

I'm gonna go into using a bit of semantics and forget the utter ridiculousness of the crap that came out of his mouth by focusing on one mini sentence; "We voted to leave Europe!"

Now I do appreciate that over emotional bafoons can mix the two but trust me when I say that idiots like this are of the same species as those that let off the rhetoric of being more in tune and united to the USA while being more moderate in their criticisms of the orange oaf across the Atlantic Ocean... In other words it isn't a lapse of jargon and is infact a fantastical belief that they think by leaving the European Union we will somehow drift across the Atlantic enough to not be a geographical fact of the continent we pertain to.

And people like these have a vote that means as much as mine? Well they did say that fools would sign with an 'X' back in the days of illiteracy.

I think your being a bit fanciful in your beliefs/assumptions of that person's thought process mate. Leaving Europe is a turn of phrase that is catchier than saying leaving the European union. It's a shorthand version of the same thing. Highly unlikely he's imagining beginning a member of the continent of North America as the alternative.

He does have a point though that the majority did vote to leave, but that doesn't mean they voted to leave whatever the cost, and the manner of leaving is obviously impactful to the economic future of the country so could justifiably be put to a vote imo.

[SirBalon]

27 minutes ago, Harry said:

I think your being a bit fanciful in your beliefs/assumptions of that person's thought process mate. Leaving Europe is a turn of phrase that is catchier than saying leaving the European union. It's a shorthand version of the same thing. Highly unlikely he's imagining beginning a member of the continent of North America as the alternative.

He does have a point though that the majority did vote to leave, but that doesn't mean they voted to leave whatever the cost, and the manner of leaving is obviously impactful to the economic future of the country so could justifiably be put to a vote imo.

He doesn't have any point at all mate because the referendum was officially non-binding (firstly) and it was also fraudulent and corrupt at the time of the 'Leave' campaign (secondly).

On the "Leaving Europe" comment... Trust me, there are plenty of molluscs that don't understand what leaving thr EU means and when they throw those comments out they're just as confused as when questioning on their understanding of what the EU is and on what points the EU has infringed upon their lives.

I live in the UK and hear that sort of tripe almost everyday mate.

Remember that to convince many of them, far right Nigel Farage issues a campaign poster scaring them into believing that we needed to leave the EU to stop an influx of Middle Eastern people coming into the UK under the Freedom of Movement laws for EU Member states.

(Note: There is no Middle Eastern EU member State, the Middle East isn't part of the continent of Europe and also very important; The UK is NOT in the Schengen Zone)

Honestly mate... Don't tell me what there idiots may or may not be thinking and believing... He is the one willing TO DIE so as to leave Europe leave the EU.

 

[Vegan Kel]

I'd say Brexit was a fantastic divide and conquer exercise that worked a treat. Now when the Banksters engineer another financial crash as they do every time one occurs all the drones can blame Brexi and vote for more centralised control like good little obedient statists

Edited September 20, 2019 by Vegan Kel

[Inverted]

All 11 SC judges on the prorogation case have decided that the PM's advice was unlawful. 

In any normal time this would be a complete disaster for the government, but I have a feeling the Tories will just soldier on as normal. 

[RandoEFC+]

Quote

 

Boris Johnson's decision to suspend Parliament was unlawful, the Supreme Court has ruled. 

Mr Johnson suspended - or prorogued - Parliament for five weeks earlier this month, saying it was to allow a Queen's Speech to outline his new policies. 

But the court said it was wrong to stop Parliament carrying out its duties in the run-up to the Brexit deadline on 31 October.

Downing Street said it was "currently processing the verdict".

Delivering its conclusions, the Supreme Court's president, Lady Hale, said: "The effect on the fundamentals of our democracy was extreme."

She added: "The decision to advise Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament was unlawful because it had the effect of frustrating or preventing the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions without reasonable justification."

Lady Hale said the unanimous decision of the 11 justices was that Parliament had not been prorogued - the decision was null and of no effect - and it was for the Speakers of the Commons and Lords to decide what to do next.

Commons Speaker John Bercow welcomed the ruling and said Parliament "must convene without delay", adding that he would now consult party leaders "as a matter of urgency". 

BBC home affairs correspondent Dominic Casciani said the ruling was "the worst outcome for the prime minister".

 

 

I wish the electorate weren't so stupid that even a government and prime minister who can repeatedly break the law and/or signal an intention to do so will still manage to sell so many of the little sheep the "people vs parliament" line as if they're all on the same side.

[Kowabunga]

On 20/09/2019 at 10:30, SirBalon said:

(Note: There is no Middle Eastern EU member State, the Middle East isn't part of the continent of Europe

Spain is partially MENA, though.

[Stan]

 

 

[SirBalon]

29 minutes ago, Kowabunga said:

Spain is partially MENA, though.

La menarquía Española la han tenído tantos amigo. 

[Harry]

On 20/09/2019 at 20:24, Vegan Kel said:

I'd say Brexit was a fantastic divide and conquer exercise that worked a treat. Now when the Banksters engineer another financial crash as they do every time one occurs all the drones can blame Brexi and vote for more centralised control like good little obedient statists

I agree there is a divide and conquer element at play, but here you're suggesting that the "state" engineered a split with the EU so the UK could be destroyed economically and thus have it's people vote to give more power back to the "state"? There are significant logic holes in that from my perspective.

[RandoEFC+]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

I agree there is a divide and conquer element at play, but here you're suggesting that the "state" engineered a split with the EU so the UK could be destroyed economically and thus have it's people vote to give more power back to the "state"? There are significant logic holes in that from my perspective.

Because the rich bastards in the Conservative party and their mates with all their dodgy offshore holdings don't give a toss if the UK is destroyed economically. It either won't affect them or they have enough money that it will barely leave a scratch on them.

That said, I believe that it isn't that cynical for the key players. It's more about ego for the likes of Farage and Johnson while Dominic Cummings is just an anarchist who wants to prove something to himself so I suppose it's about ego for him too.

[DeadLinesman]

26 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Because the rich bastards in the Conservative party and their mates with all their dodgy offshore holdings don't give a toss if the UK is destroyed economically. It either won't affect them or they have enough money that it will barely leave a scratch on them.

That said, I believe that it isn't that cynical for the key players. It's more about ego for the likes of Farage and Johnson while Dominic Cummings is just an anarchist who wants to prove something to himself so I suppose it's about ego for him too.

To be fair, you’ve got multimillionaires in every sport single party now. More than ever, you get into politics now to protect your own assets.

[Inverted]

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2019/08/england-s-rentier-alliance-driving-support-no-deal-brexit

This analysis is for me the most convincing analysis of what economic interests are drawn towards Brexit. It's not quite precise enough to say "bankers" because the major institutions of banking aren't necessarily in favour, since they are at a scale where their interest is better served by stability and growth than radical disruption. Likewise it's not quite enough to say the rich, because many rich people are reliant on supply, growth etc. for their profits. 

There is a very particular subset, which is  of smaller-mid sized financial actors who thrive on speculation and uncertainty, well-to-do retirees who are insulated from economic shocks, and comfortable provincial middle-classes, who all see Brexit as worth it and have managed to gather a sufficient amount of not-so-well-off support around them to make Brexit so forceful a movement, largely due to their control of a disproportionate share of the media.

 

Quote

 

No deal supporters are not classic rentiers, in the form of monopolists or exploiters of unproductive capital. However, they are at a point in life where they have paid off their mortgages, and are living off the assets held by pension funds. They are worth something, independently of what they do. This is the generation that enthusiastically backed Margaret Thatcher in their early working life, witnessed Blairism and the booming of metropolitan multiculturalism with growing unease, and perhaps felt a rising resentment towards the international elite that was making the serious money in London, while convincing themselves (with the help of the Express, the Daily Mail and the Telegraph) that London is now a foreign city (a fiction that Johnson cynically endorsed in his leadership campaign).

What this group shares with the Johnson-Farage backers is a lack of any immediate interest in labour markets or productive capitalism. What’s the worst that could happen from the perspective of these interests? Inflation or a stock market slump would certainly harm them, but they may have forgotten that these things are even possible. Jeremy Corbyn terrifies them even more than the prospect of Remain, as they believe he will tax capital, gifts and inheritance into oblivion (they are less concerned with income tax as they don’t pay it). Where productivity gains are no longer sought, the goal becomes defending private wealth and keeping it in the family. This is a logic that unites the international oligarch and the comfortable Telegraph-reading retiree in Hampshire. The mentality is one of pulling up the draw-bridge, and cashing in your chips.

This suggests that support for Johnson and Farage is a symptom of prolonged financialisation, in which capital pulls increasingly towards unproductive investments, relying on balance sheet manipulation, negative interest rates and liquidity for its returns (aided substantially by quantitative easing over the past decade). To put that more starkly, these are seriously morbid symptoms, in which all productive opportunities have already been seized, no new ideas or technologies are likely, and no new spheres of social or environmental life are left to exploit and commodify. These are socially nihilistic interests whose only concern with the future involves their children and grandchildren, but otherwise believe that everything good is in the past.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2019 by Inverted

[SirBalon]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

I agree there is a divide and conquer element at play, but here you're suggesting that the "state" engineered a split with the EU so the UK could be destroyed economically and thus have it's people vote to give more power back to the "state"? There are significant logic holes in that from my perspective.

The UK always had all the power they’ve ever had. Today is a demonstration of this as has been the whole Brexit process for these past three years. Parliament is sovereign!!!

[The Artful Dodger]

If today doesn't show people the face of the Conservative party, the sneering at legality, the contempt for anything which stands in their way and the pure cynicism at their heart, then nothing will. Lower than vermin, indeed.

[RandoEFC+]

Been watching parliament for about an hour. Boris's strategy just seems to bluster, more bluster and throw in the term "surrender bill" as often as possible.

Literally watching the man who illegally prorogued parliament stand there and claim he wants to work with parliament to vote through a Brexit deal. It's surreal that anyone is still buying him.

[Dr. Gonzo]

6 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Been watching parliament for about an hour. Boris's strategy just seems to bluster, more bluster and throw in the term "surrender bill" as often as possible.

Literally watching the man who illegally prorogued parliament stand there and claim he wants to work with parliament to vote through a Brexit deal. It's surreal that anyone is still buying him.

Tory's should be joining the opposition in demanding he resign, if they at least wanted to pretend they still had any integrity.

[RandoEFC+]

Boris has repeated the catch phrases "surrender bill", "get on with Brexit" and "17.4 million people" in response to literally any question tonight I'm surprised we haven't seen Jacob Rees-Mogg lean over and pull the string coming out of his back to charge him back up. All rhetoric and buzz words, no substance.

[Inverted]

It's quite funny that the left-wing of the Labour Party has been calling the Tories authoritarian, murderous sociopaths for years. Now it seems that liberals and centrists, after poo-pooing and "both sides"-ing them the whole time, are just starting to grasp the reality. 

The Tories don't care about human life and they don't care about democracy. If it wasn't obvious years ago, it should be now. 

People need to realise that they can either keep playing the ridiculous tribalistic Brexit game, and enable no-deal along with another 5 years of this debacle. Or, they can get behind the opposition and give themselves at least a chance of keeping the country from total disaster. 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Inverted