UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[Honey Honey]

He said we'd be leaving it. Manifesto said they'd seek to keep the benefits of the single market. That allowed some Labour politicians and members to campaign as if the single market was still on the table. Someone is ultimately being mugged off, it can't end well.

 

The common sense approach is that we will remain in the single market during a transition period. Not just drop out. Dropping out is the UKIPification of Brexit which some Tories are flirting with. There are cabinet members, broadsheet commetariat and city folk Who are pro transition common sense. A transition will allow for the creation of a proper trade deal whereby the industries that are dependent on the single market will remain in close regulatory consistency with it and the industries that aren't or that we don't want to be close will be outside the single market and free to diversify.

Rumour is a transition deal will be concluded after the German election. 

[Fairy In Boots]

8 hours ago, Inverted said:

Very funny, Id suggest someone do a similar joke against the right, but it's already hard enough to get them to pick up a book. 

And calling for one instance of property appropriation in an emergency isn't Marxist. Jezza supports regulated capitalism. He believes you can have a fair society if you force bosses to pay their workers more and treat them well. Marx thought the workers needed to violently overthrow their boss and seize collective control of the workplace. 

A few nationalisations and some labour regulations is just capitalism-lite. 

In fairness he professes not to be a Marxist as does MacDonald the more violent of the pair.

Also most Tory voters tend to be of a higher intelligence than Labour voters on average, I don't get the digs about intelligence from the left. It's very much throwing a stone from a glass house. 

[God is Haaland]

3 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

He said we'd be leaving it. Manifesto said they'd seek to keep the benefits of the single market. That allowed some Labour politicians and members to campaign as if the single market was still on the table. Someone is ultimately being mugged off, it can't end well.

 

The common sense approach is that we will remain in the single market during a transition period. Not just drop out. Dropping out is the UKIPification of Brexit which some Tories are flirting with. There are cabinet members, broadsheet commetariat and city folk Who are pro transition common sense. A transition will allow for the creation of a proper trade deal whereby the industries that are dependent on the single market will remain in close regulatory consistency with it and the industries that aren't or that we don't want to be close will be outside the single market and free to diversify.

Rumour is a transition deal will be concluded after the German election. 

You better pray CDU won't win then.

[Honey Honey]

21 minutes ago, True Bender said:

You better pray CDU won't win then.

The rumour is actually based on CDU winning. Anyone other than Merkel and there will be a delay to any transition deal.

The only way there won't be a transition would be either because we aren't properly leaving and accept some arrangement that already exists or the crazy drop out with nothing to WTO which would be a disaster for EU exporters and UK consumers, the only real winner would be the UK exporters who aren't dependent on imports for their production process.

To be able to sort everything out by the end of 2 years is highly unlikely, then add in that we are a few months in and nothing is being negotiated makes it even more daft to think article 50 is of any use. 

[Inverted]

On 30/06/2017 at 7:47 PM, Fairy In Boots said:

In fairness he professes not to be a Marxist as does MacDonald the more violent of the pair.

Also most Tory voters tend to be of a higher intelligence than Labour voters on average, I don't get the digs about intelligence from the left. It's very much throwing a stone from a glass house. 

They do say that changing the topic entirely when clearly refuted is a sign of intelligence. 

[Fairy In Boots]

23 hours ago, Inverted said:

They do say that changing the topic entirely when clearly refuted is a sign of intelligence. 

Eh? how have I changed the topic, you said  Jez wasn't a Marxist I posted a vid of his most important cabinet member and deputy describing himself as a Marxist and i'm changing the topic? it's highly relevant to the discussion. 

[God is Haaland]

This is infinitely looping in Fairy's mind.

[Fairy In Boots]

5 hours ago, True Bender said:

This is infinitely looping in Fairy's mind.

The damage the migrant crisis is doing pretty much negates accepting Turkey into the EU now, it's like springing a leak in an already sinking ship. 

[God is Haaland]

 

Quote

Vote Leave chief who created £350m NHS claim on bus admits leaving EU could be 'an error'

Dominic Cummings also described the referendum as a 'dumb idea' - shaping up to be a 'guaranteed debacle'

 

Edited July 5, 2017 by True Bender

[Kowabunga]

Any thought or narrative about this X-Y graph other than "did Greece just become part of the legend?" ?

[Dr. Gonzo]

9 hours ago, True Bender said:

 

 

What a fucking bastard lol. Spending all of that time and money convincing people into voting for what he believes is a "dumb idea" - maybe lying to the public to get them to vote against their own economic interests is something that should be fucking frowned upon??

[RandoEFC+]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

What a fucking bastard lol. Spending all of that time and money convincing people into voting for what he believes is a "dumb idea" - maybe lying to the public to get them to vote against their own economic interests is something that should be fucking frowned upon??

You'd think so wouldn't you but I think that after the bus debacle was just swept under the rug with no consequences for the likes of Farage, politicians have realised that they won't be held accountable for point blank lying to the public due to the pathetic, biased nature of the newspapers meaning that half of them ignore it because that suits their agenda, while the other half lose all credibility by running exaggerated smear campaigns against the party they don't support. As they've now realised this, it seems that they don't even have the shame to try and pretend that they actually believe what they campaign for is in the interest of the country. Pretty dire, to be honest.

[God is Haaland]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

What a fucking bastard lol. Spending all of that time and money convincing people into voting for what he believes is a "dumb idea" - maybe lying to the public to get them to vote against their own economic interests is something that should be fucking frowned upon??

A true professional, so admirable. Remember kid, remainers are the traitors.

[Panflute]

A bell-end indeed, but a bell-end having second thoughts doesn't change the fact that the EU is a profoundly bad idea in both concept and execution.

[Honey Honey]

Looks like the Independent click bait has caught a few out. It is sad what has happened to that organisation since the print went bust. They were once the pride of liberal Britain for publishing reports and studies into mainstream press. Now their editorial strategy is how to get articles shared on facebook for the burst a blood vessel brigade. They've become a sort of liberal version of the Daily Express and are the epitome of why the liberal democrat cause is rotting to its core right now.

With the full context of his thoughts it becomes a bit of a none story, but he did that bus didn't he so... shares and likes, get that ad revenue up.

Obviously the man rightly has a shitty reputation, but the real take home message from the full context of what he is thinking is that the government can blow the benefits of leaving if it makes the wrong choices and takes the wrong approaches, including in the reorganisation of civil society internally, or as he suggests, lack of it. Not much wrong with that, it's true. The problem is the UKIPification of Brexit, the UKIPification of Brexit lines, the voting identity badge, the black and white nature of it all.

Whilst the gaggle gobble the real discussions can only be found in the noises from the City it seems. Not a surprise, money has no time for emotion.

 

[Fairy In Boots]

Harvz at this point I don't know why you're engaging the whinny mob on a this topic.  The sky has been falling in any day now for a year, and Britain will collapse etc etc. I remember most leavers saying that we expected a bit of an recession post vote if it went our way, it's actually been less painless than that despite political turmoil. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

18 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Harvz at this point I don't know why you're engaging the whinny mob on a this topic.  The sky has been falling in any day now for a year, and Britain will collapse etc etc. I remember most leavers saying that we expected a bit of an recession post vote if it went our way, it's actually been less painless than that despite political turmoil. 

Have we Brexited yet? I was under the impression that we haven't. A lot of the economic impacts of Brexit are going to be much more apparent when the terms of our exit are negotiated. I think the EU's stance on negotiations has been pretty clear, while the stance of your average leaver has been "oh the EU won't try to bend us over the barrel" and "we have so much leverage" but those are mostly based off feelings rather than anything other than what leave campaigners said during the campaign. You can't not expect negative economic impacts to important industries if we do leave the single market. And you can't not expect people to be worried about negative economic impacts, especially to industries that are hugely important to Britain's GDP.

It's a bit shit for everyone involved that nobody knows the ramifications of leaving the EU until it happens. Because ultimately what it means is people voted blind - either to keep the status quo or to do something new, yet undetermined, but with no real plan. And I think a lot of lies were told in order to get a lot of people exited about Brexit - like that NHS lie.

[God is Haaland]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-davis-brexit-no-notes-brexit-negotiations-a7845686.html

David Davis pictured without any notes at Brexit negotiations

The Brexit Secretary has already returned to the UK

[Honey Honey]

True Bennite.

[Fairy In Boots]

1 hour ago, HoneyNUFC said:

True Bennite.

I know damn well he voted leave, it's probably one of the few things I agree with him about. 

[God is Haaland]

List of banks which are leaving London and their destination:

1. VTB - ???
2. Daiwa Securities - Frankfurt
3. Nomura - Frankfurt
4. Sumitomo Mitsui - Frankfurt
5. Morgan Stanley(Trade) - Frankfurt
6. Citigroup(Trade) - Frankfurt
7. Standard Chartered  - Frankfurt

List of banks which are moving thousands of workers overseas and their destination:

1. HSBC - Paris
2. UBS -???
3. Goldman Sachs - Frankfurt & USA

 

 

[Honey Honey]

For perspective, estimated to be between 2 and 5% of the city's workforce. Less than the amount who have lost and will lose their jobs in the banking sector due to technology.

For anyone on the left it's great to shed some of these crooks now and have hysterical folk blame Brexit rather than face hysterics when they leave as a consequence of a left wing overhaul of the financial sector as we won't want people getting cold feet due to crying when that time comes. However London will remain the capital of corruption for EMEA so we will have hysterics when we overthrow that.

Hopefully us who work in the regulation lobbying part of the financial sector will become more powerful as a result of Brexit by not having to go through the arduous EU lobbying procedures. Probably have to lose the conservative government after Brexit to get those powers.

[Fairy In Boots]

More jobs in the city this than this time last year I saw the other day

[SirBalon]

Even Gary Lineker and Chris Evans are earning more than ever from what's essentially a tax while our public sector MAY (oh the irony of the word MAY) get a 1% increase if apparently the money is found somewhere (who knows where ).

How's the teachers employment stats going?

[Fairy In Boots]

March 2019 is end of free movement for EU citizens