Administrator Stan Posted November 20, 2022 Administrator Share Posted November 20, 2022 8 hours ago, El Profesor said: I'm curious. How is the general attitude of public opinion in other countries? Mixed in the UK I'd say. No one really denies there's issues in the country or that its being hosted. Some are adamantly boycotting it which is fair enough. I fall in the category of wanting to watch football because its the World Cup, but also realising there's little I can do from my sofa about it. Matches in UK are on free to air TV, so whether I watch or not won't make much difference. Fifa aren't gonna change their ways any time soon, and neither are Qatar. The only thing I can hope for is that future World Cups are held in regions or countries that have better moral standard but also equipped to deal with a massive tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 I don't think you could do the controversy anymore in the UK, everyone knows about it, everyone knows it is wrong to award such a society with a prestigious celebration. But British society and English football culture isn't very good at collective action. It's each to their own, eye rolling at anyone trying to force an attitude on you. So some will watch, some will watch some of it, some won't watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy Posted November 20, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 20, 2022 I still find the "it won't make a difference what I do" excuse/attitude funny. As I said before, of course they'll notice it, if a large part of the population doesn't watch the event. The viewership is an important part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted November 20, 2022 Administrator Share Posted November 20, 2022 11 minutes ago, Tommy said: I still find the "it won't make a difference what I do" excuse/attitude funny. As I said before, of course they'll notice it, if a large part of the population doesn't watch the event. The viewership is an important part. Would it make a difference if it was paid TV or free-to-air? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy Posted November 20, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Stan said: Would it make a difference if it was paid TV or free-to-air? Viewership is still very important, even to free-to-air TV, AFAIK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted November 20, 2022 Subscriber Share Posted November 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Stan said: Would it make a difference if it was paid TV or free-to-air? Even if it's free-to-air, the broadcaster is still paying for TV rights... The cost of TV and streaming rights for the future tournaments is directly linked with the viewership figures of the previous ones, as understandably, advertising needs to have maximum audience reach for maximum profits. Example: FIFA has recently rejected TV rights bids for the next years Women's World Cup, deeming them too low based on the record viewership of the 2019 tournament. Now for this World Cup, they are projecting around 5 billion viewers in total to watch at least some of the tournament. That's a massive reach and a huge audience for selling things to, and it's fair to assume that the TV rights cost is reflecting that. Now imagine if there was a globally coordinated effort to not watch it, and those figures fell far below the projected numbers? It still surely wouldn't make any difference to this particular World Cup; that ship has sailed a long time ago. But customer behaviour is an important tool in influencing businesses and organisations that are looking to maximise their profits, and boycotts generally work best when they inflict economic loss on the target. Most of FIFA's revenue comes directly from TV and marketing rights - of the $6.4 billion generated in the last cycle, it accounted for more than $6.2 billion ($4.6 billion from TV rights + $1.66 billion from marketing). So yeah, the viewership figures are definitely important to FIFA and its future revenue and could be a pretty decent way to hit them where it hurts and potentially influence their future decisions, but only if it's organised well with a significant number of people committing to it globally. Which is never going to happen; it's virtually impossible to convince half of the world's population to care and do something about it. And that is a huge psychological barrier hindering any social movement - people know that their individual action won't make much difference and that any massive structural change requires a huge and well coordinated collective effort so they just don't bother. But many seem to forget that without individual action, there can be no social movement in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reluctant Striker Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 The media in England has basically moved on to Qatar from Afghanistan & China. Many will sympathize & feel it's not right. But there is probably a saturation point. And the history of some nations looking to put their values forward as the correct values, to others, likely has problems for some, regardless of the topic. Really just Qatar getting the idea how many people disagree is the best outcome. And hope it leads somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 On 20/11/2022 at 02:35, Michael said: I worked in a couple of cities in the region, and I can tell you that Western women move around those cities freely. Not sure about the muslim women, they mostly seemed to conform to their own societal norms. But Western women were pretty much able to do and wear what they wanted. Tight clothing never seemed to be an issue, unless they went out on the public streets with something that resembled a bikini of course(which almost never even happens anywhere in the world). The main restrictions that I found, was that snogging in public is a no no or any other sexual activity done in public for that matter(so none of the luxuries that people get away with in Magaluf). Also of course, alcohol is restricted to hotels and certain clubs in that part of the world. But apart from that, people are pretty free in terms of how they can live and what they can buy. Westerners flock to cities like Dubai, Doha and Abu Dhabi for good reason. Of course the money pays well there, but if women for example felt uncomfortable in these cities, there wouldn't be so many educated Western women wanting to live and work there. I do think the Qataris though have done themselves a disservice by doing a sudden U-turn regarding alcohol sale at the stadiums. Qatar will now not allow the sale of alcohol at the World Cup stadiums. Most of the match tickets have already been bought and many of those fans will have wanted to enjoy some beer during the World Cup matches. So, it's a bit of a let-down for quite a lot of people and quite unprofessional for the Qataris to have had this change of heart so close to the start of the World Cup. Obviously you've never lived in a city with beaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeKhrush Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 I am not watching, because I don't enjoy international football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy Posted November 23, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 23, 2022 Granted, Germans love their Tatort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted November 23, 2022 Subscriber Share Posted November 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, Tommy said: Granted, Germans love their Tatort. Other figures show a significantly lower interest as well, on both Day 2 and 3. https://www.dwdl.de/zahlenzentrale/90641/wmquoten_brechen_am_zweiten_turniertag_spuerbar_ein/ https://www.dwdl.de/zahlenzentrale/90649/wm_erneut_schwaecher_als_frueher_die_kanzlei_siegt/ Losing out not only to Tatort, but also to a rerun of an old episode of Donna Leon and an episode of Die Kanzlei. However, the viewership numbers will surely rise significantly for the Germany match... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panflute Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 It's comfy background noise at least. But some of the initial matches are horrible anyway. And to think the number of countries will get increased the next tournament. Really looking forward to Trinidad & Tobago vs. Mongolia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeKhrush Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 when Spain dump Germany out early then Germans can not watch the world cup and call it a protest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy Posted November 24, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 24, 2022 https://www.dwdl.de/zahlenzentrale/90664/katarwm_selbst_deutschlandspiel_bleibt_unter_10_mio__/ Even the Germany game had less than 10 Mio. viewers here. The group games in previous tournaments had 25 Mio. Nice. Granted, the kick-off time could have played a role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted November 24, 2022 Subscriber Share Posted November 24, 2022 13 minutes ago, Tommy said: https://www.dwdl.de/zahlenzentrale/90664/katarwm_selbst_deutschlandspiel_bleibt_unter_10_mio__/ Even the Germany game had less than 10 Mio. viewers here. The group games in previous tournaments had 25 Mio. Nice. Granted, the kick-off time could have played a role. Even if you take kickoff times into account, it's still significantly worse than group matches with similar kickoff times in previous tournaments. Also, people usually spend more time in front of TV during autumn/winter compared to summer, so that's another factor which makes it even worse. 2002: Germany - Cameroon, 13:30 - 15.7 million viewers 2006: Germany - Ecuador, 16:00 - 21 million 2010: Germany - Serbia, 13:30 - 22 million 2018: Germany - South Korea, 16:00 - 25 million I'm sure that the national team's decline in recent years contributed to many losing interest in general, but still, it's almost 3 times less viewers compared to last tournament where none of the games involving Germany had less than 25m! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy Posted November 24, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 24, 2022 9 minutes ago, nudge said: Even if you take kickoff times into account, it's still significantly worse than group matches with similar kickoff times in previous tournaments. Also, people usually spend more time in front of TV during autumn/winter compared to summer, so that's another factor which makes it even worse. 2002: Germany - Cameroon, 13:30 - 15.7 million viewers 2006: Germany - Ecuador, 16:00 - 21 million 2010: Germany - Serbia, 13:30 - 22 million 2018: Germany - South Korea, 16:00 - 25 million I'm sure that the national team's decline in recent years contributed to many losing interest in general, but still, it's almost 3 times less viewers compared to last tournament where none of the games involving Germany had less than 25m! Faith in humanity somewhat restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted November 24, 2022 Subscriber Share Posted November 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tommy said: Faith in humanity somewhat restored. Think Germany's viewership figures are an outlier, no such trend in (most) other countries, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 9 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said: when Spain dump Germany out early then Germans can not watch the world cup and call it a protest The team not being good might be the real reason they're boycotting... All this misplaced moral superiority and judgement on others just watching football is just for show. Just trying to make themselves feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy Posted November 24, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 24, 2022 12 minutes ago, 6666 said: The team not being good might be the real reason they're boycotting... All this misplaced moral superiority and judgement on others just watching football is just for show. Just trying to make themselves feel better. Except half of the population said they are going to boycott before the tournament even started. And nobody is talking about superiority. It sounds more like those who watch it feel quite insecure about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Tommy said: Except half of the population said they are going to boycott before the tournament even started. And nobody is talking about superiority. It sounds more like those who watch it feel quite insecure about it. Nah. I don't pick and choose when sports and politics are supposedly the same thing. I'm extremely comfortable with that consistent way of thinking. You're just giving annoying vegan vibes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeKhrush Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 3 hours ago, 6666 said: The team not being good might be the real reason they're boycotting... All this misplaced moral superiority and judgement on others just watching football is just for show. Just trying to make themselves feel better. I will not disagree with that observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy Posted November 24, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 24, 2022 1 minute ago, OrangeKhrush said: I will not disagree with that observation. That's a very good indicator that it is a rubbish observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeKhrush Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tommy said: That's a very good indicator that it is a rubbish observation. this wasn't the case in the build up to the game, the pandering only started after the defeat as if it was going to detract from the fact that it was an alarming defeat and likely back to back group stage exits. maybe they should protest how shit the team is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy Posted November 24, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 24, 2022 Just now, OrangeKhrush said: this wasn't the case in the build up to the game, the pandering only started after the defeat as if it was going to detract from the fact that it was an alarming defeat and likely back to back group stage exits. maybe they should protest how shit the team is. What pandering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeKhrush Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Tommy said: What pandering? threatening FIFA, the whole boycott thing, if Germany really wanted to make it a political statement they could have withdrawn at the qualifiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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