Game Of Thrones

[Harry]

46 minutes ago, Rick said:

Or, ORRRRRRR the writing this season has been poor and everything has been rushed to fuck and awkward. 

By far the worst plotline in the show was the capture of the Wight. 

I'm not saying the writing this season is good. It really isn't. But this is the path the shows writing has been on pretty much since season 5.... "Priority 1. We need to deliver 4 wow moments a season. Priority 2. 8 seasons max".

 

[Tommy]

I really miss scenes like this. 

Really makes you realize how good Game of Thrones once was. 

[Cicero]

Is there any particular reason HBO contracted them to only 6 episodes? 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

Another confused mess of an episode. 

Cleganebowl was literally pointless. I though that it was setting up to have Sandor cover Arya from the mountain while she killed Cersi. But instead, after walking all that way with him she just leaves at the last minute. Which meant it was pointless beyond a side characters personal satisfaction. Jamie vs Euron was forced and pointless. Neither prophecy from the book was fulfilled as Jamie didn't kill Cerci and he wasn't involved in Cleganebowl like he was supposed to be. Even Dumb slags period rage felt dumb as she promised to let the Lannisters surrender, then they surrender fully, then for literal no reason she gets mad cow disease and fucking nukes em anyway. I get that they were trying to set up 'she has the Targaryen gene' but she went from breaker of chains and personally helping out rape victims to nuking Hiroshima in about the space of half a season. [spoiler/]

[Batard]

The end to this show is turning into a travesty 

[Fairy In Boots]

The ending would always be bitter sweet, this has been foreshadowed for years. In the house of undying Dany walks through the throne room of the red jeep with ash gently falling, she’s said multiple times I will answer with “fire & blood” yes she’s become a monster, that’s the whole fucking point. 

Jon has effectively become Ned and we all knows what happens to those to honourable in the game of thrones, it’s simple you win or you die. We all want the fairytale ending but the whole point of the story is that nothing is ever perfect, I personally am fine with it all. 

My main gripe is troop counts getting silly

[Devil-Dick Willie]

I understand Danerys arc. But what about Jaime. He spent 7 seasons learning a different way, redeeming himself and getting over Cerci. Then when he gets what he truly wants 10 seconds later he fucks off back to slag features for literally no reason.

[Fairy In Boots]

21 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

I understand Danerys arc. But what about Jaime. He spent 7 seasons learning a different way, redeeming himself and getting over Cerci. Then when he gets what he truly wants 10 seconds later he fucks off back to slag features for literally no reason.

Well the baby in her belly was Jamie’s she’s always been something he couldn’t say no to, his arc was that of a villan but humanised where as Dany’s of a hero but demonised. It’s what makes martins work better than most other type of work because he explored the grey, nothing is black and white. 

 Setting aside tv & books differences and looking at the series as a whole and I mean ASoFAI here Cersei was always supposed to die with the arms of her younger sibling wrapped around her as the life chocked out of her, she always assumed it was Tyrion. Jamie was a few minutes younger. It’s a nice twist 

[Fairy In Boots]

I was going to liken it to Iraq in the previous post, but I saw this tweet and pretty much the point of it all, we’ve been eager for Dany to give them “fire & blood” for 8 seasons, when she gives it she’s suddenly “mad” how many opportunities at Mercy did they get, she offered surrender many times? Pretty similar with the US & U.K. giving Iraq “democracy”. 

Theres never been a sack of a city that was clean, it breaks down into rape & pillaging everytime even as recent as conflict in Syria. The “game of thrones” as it’s now entered cultural lexicon is quite simple you win or you die. That’s true in Yemen & Saudi or Northern Ireland. 

Any anti trident protestor, watch that trident is our Drogon. I’d rather we didn’t have to have it but the reality is we’ve not moved on from medieval times only our technology has. ASoFAI is social commentary on a grand scale it’s brilliant. 

[Harry]

4 hours ago, Batard said:

The end to this show is turning into a travesty 

I don't know where to start.

Maybe with this.

 

[Harry]

I'll calm down then post.

[Cicero]

3 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

The ending would always be bitter sweet, this has been foreshadowed for years. In the house of undying Dany walks through the throne room of the red jeep with ash gently falling, she’s said multiple times I will answer with “fire & blood” yes she’s become a monster, that’s the whole fucking point. 

Jon has effectively become Ned and we all knows what happens to those to honourable in the game of thrones, it’s simple you win or you die. We all want the fairytale ending but the whole point of the story is that nothing is ever perfect, I personally am fine with it all. 

My main gripe is troop counts getting silly

My sentiments exactly. People are expecting the predictable (Jon killing the Night King. Jon + Dany ruling. Arya killing Cercei) but with the exception of the Hound killing his brother,  the writers are not giving in to the fans demands, which I'm all for. Apart the lazy writing, I enjoyed this season. Last night's episode no exception. (I firmly believe all would of been better had HBO granted them more episodes vs merely 6) 

@Harry You and I both discussed in the past that Dany showed signs like her father, and it is now undoubtebly true. Showing no mercy for her brother. Killing the Tarly's. Paranoia that everyone, including the ones she loved, would turn against her. It is fueled even more that she isn't even the rigthful heir, belieiving to be all her life. 

What separates Jon from Robb, is that he wouldn't ever let love come before duty. It was worrying that the writers disregarded that seeing Jon did nothing when Vary's burned, but all was good when Jon held his men back when the unsullied continued to fight. 

I'd love to see a Jon vs Greyworm showdown. Also good to see Jon getting whiskey dick now he knows Dany is his aunt. 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Cicero

[Dr. Gonzo]

I liked that episode best of the season so far, but this season’s rushed writing is bothering me.

Ah well, we’re so close to finally seeing how this ends.

I think it’s gonna go one or two ways. Either the Azor Ahai prophecy comes true (with either Jon or... Arya) or Dany kills everyone else

1 hour ago, Fairy In Boots said:

I was going to liken it to Iraq in the previous post, but I saw this tweet and pretty much the point of it all, we’ve been eager for Dany to give them “fire & blood” for 8 seasons, when she gives it she’s suddenly “mad” how many opportunities at Mercy did they get, she offered surrender many times? Pretty similar with the US & U.K. giving Iraq “democracy”. 

Theres never been a sack of a city that was clean, it breaks down into rape & pillaging everytime even as recent as conflict in Syria. The “game of thrones” as it’s now entered cultural lexicon is quite simple you win or you die. That’s true in Yemen & Saudi or Northern Ireland. 

Any anti trident protestor, watch that trident is our Drogon. I’d rather we didn’t have to have it but the reality is we’ve not moved on from medieval times only our technology has. ASoFAI is social commentary on a grand scale it’s brilliant. 

She’d won though. Then she decided to “burn them all”

[Cicero]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I liked that episode best of the season so far, but this season’s rushed writing is bothering me.

Ah well, we’re so close to finally seeing how this ends.

I think it’s gonna go one or two ways. Either the Azor Ahai prophecy comes true (with either Jon or... Arya) or Dany kills everyone else

She’d won though. Then she decided to “burn them all”

That's already happened. The prophecy entailed that a hero would would stand against the darkness. If he were to fail, the whole world would fail. 

Jon literally died and was brought back to life to unite all of Westeros against the Night King. He didn't nessesarily have to kill him. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

24 minutes ago, Cicero said:

That's already happened. The prophecy entailed that a hero would would stand against the darkness. If he were to fail, the whole world would fail. 

Jon literally died and was brought back to life to unite all of Westeros against the Night King. He didn't nessesarily have to kill him. 

Has he sacrificed his love yet? Was that Ygrette and he’s not actually in love with his aunt?

[Fairy In Boots]

1 hour ago, Cicero said:

My sentiments exactly. People are expecting the predictable (Jon killing the Night King. Jon + Dany ruling. Arya killing Cercei) but with the exception of the Hound killing his brother,  the writers are not giving in to the fans demands, which I'm all for. Apart the lazy writing, I enjoyed this season. Last night's episode no exception. (I firmly believe all would of been better had HBO granted them more episodes vs merely 6) 

@Harry You and I both discussed in the past that Dany showed signs like her father, and it is now undoubtebly true. Showing no mercy for her brother. Killing the Tarly's. Paranoia that everyone, including the ones she loved, would turn against her. It is fueled even more that she isn't even the rigthful heir, belieiving to be all her life. 

What separates Jon from Robb, is that he wouldn't ever let love come before duty. It was worrying that the writers disregarded that seeing Jon did nothing when Vary's burned, but all was good when Jon held his men back when the unsullied continued to fight. 

I'd love to see a Jon vs Greyworm showdown. Also good to see Jon getting whiskey dick now he knows Dany is his aunt. 

Varys committed treason, the Tarlys forced her hand. Vicerys deserved it as well she knew, she’s lost 2 dragons on this continent whom she viewed as children. This is the city where her family were slaughtered and she gave them offers to surrender. Cersei answered by killing one of Dany’s closest friends, so they got what you always get when a Targaryen comes knocking “fire & blood”

35 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I liked that episode best of the season so far, but this season’s rushed writing is bothering me.

Ah well, we’re so close to finally seeing how this ends.

I think it’s gonna go one or two ways. Either the Azor Ahai prophecy comes true (with either Jon or... Arya) or Dany kills everyone else

She’d won though. Then she decided to “burn them all”

See above, she couldn’t contain her anger/wrath/grief/desire for vengeance. 

General comment to all; I think at this point if you’re expecting a lord of the Rings style ending where Jon is king all the bad guys get killed after heroic duals & confrontations then we cut to a feasting scene where the hound, Jamie, Brienne, The Starks & hot pie share and ale before going into the west to live happily ever after then I think you’ve wasted 8 years of your life I’m sorry to say. 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Fairy In Boots

[Harry]

I just lost a long post.

In summary. Good directing. Pretty terrible writing.

Definitely the most annoying bit for me was Euron fighting Jamie. So pointless. Maybe the best indication of how the shows lost its way as it's worn on. The episode would be much better without it.

However Danys turn to madness goes beyond all levels of believability. Killing the soldiers would be believable. What she did was beyond next level to the point I can't believe she'd hang around to rule. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

I don’t think anyone was expecting a fairy tail ending from the show that brought us the Red Wedding. The turn into the mad queen has been abrupt though and that’s just not great writing, unfortunately, with a show that’s had some of the best character development ever on television.

Ultimately, I think the show deserved more than 6 episodes to conclude, and that would have allowed for the pacing and writing to have been better developed.

Don’t get me wrong, great episode still. And the fact we’re getting such a high level production as a TV show is incredible. I am just a bit disappointed that a show that has one of the most intricate plot lines and sort of revolutionised TV narratives is getting an ending that to me feels rushed.

[Cicero]

11 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Varys committed treason, the Tarlys forced her hand. Vicerys deserved it as well she knew, she’s lost 2 dragons on this continent whom she viewed as children. This is the city where her family were slaughtered and she gave them offers to surrender. Cersei answered by killing one of Dany’s closest friends, so they got what you always get when a Targaryen comes knocking “fire & blood”

It would've been treason if Dany was the righful heir. She isn't. The fact she killed a man who knew the truth and wanted to do what was best for the realm, shows how paranoid/obsessed she is in nature.

Visery's i'll give you. 

She knowingly finished a great house's bloodline, something Tyrion desperately advised against. This was well before they knew of Sam. 

The cherry on top was that the City surrendered, yet Dany decided to still kill the innocent. She could've been the better person, but just showed she is just as evil as Cercei. 

21 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Has he sacrificed his love yet? Was that Ygrette and he’s not actually in love with his aunt?

Nailed head. 

Still think he kills Dany though. Been saying this for a while. 

 

[Cicero]

Also, @Dr. Gonzo & @Harry

1. He shall be born amidst the smoke and salt - Jon was born during the seige of Kings Landing (smoke) & with Lyanna crying before she died (salt)
2. The prince that was promised will be a song of fire and ice - One of Rhaegar's main motives behind his love for Lyanna was to birth a child to fulfill that prophecy. Half Stark. Half Targaryan.
3. He will stand against the darkness. If he were to fail, all would fail. - Jon united a war forced Westeros against one common enemy. It was only Jon that realised who the real threat was.
4. He will sacrafice his true love to complete lightbringer - Lightbringer isn't a sword. It's Jon. Jon's decision to choose duty ahead of Yigrette, got her killed. He indirectly sacraficed Yigrette for the night's watch, hence creating him into a stronger person.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Cicero

[Fairy In Boots]

2 hours ago, Cicero said:

It would've been treason if Dany was the righful heir. She isn't. The fact she killed a man who knew the truth and wanted to do what was best for the realm, shows how paranoid/obsessed she is in nature.

Visery's i'll give you. 

She knowingly finished a great house's bloodline, something Tyrion desperately advised against. This was well before they knew of Sam. 

The cherry on top was that the City surrendered, yet Dany decided to still kill the innocent. She could've been the better person, but just showed she is just as evil as Cercei. 

Nailed head. 

Still think he kills Dany though. Been saying this for a while. 

 

It’s treason, Dany is the acknowled monarch even by Jon, actively seeking to change that is treason, any monarch would have acted accordingly. [\SPOILER]

[RandoEFC+]

Oh boy...

Like the Battle of Winterfell, this kept my attention throughout in an enjoyable manner I guess but the dip in quality on the home straight really is a shame. It's not as bad as some people are making out but I do find myself watching this now just to see how it ends and to enjoy the cinematography and generally good acting. The writing, though, has become an absolute shitshow, sorry.

This episode was another story of them hitting the key story telling moments but not really being arsed to do so properly.

It's actually painful how predictable it is that the scorpions that took out a dragon last week with three consecutive direct hits now don't even make a dent in Drogon, I think they showed one bolt flying past Dany's head. At no point in the opening sequence of the battle was I worried that she'd get hit by one so what's the point? The problem here is more with last week's ridiculous accuracy than this week's inaccuracy, along with the inconsistency.

Euron vs Jaime was utterly pointless. Just have Euron die when the fleet gets burnt if you need to get rid of him. The fight was absolutely ridiculous as well. Jaime has one hand for fucks sake, he then gets run through with a sword (twice?) and lays down to die, but then gets the classic "my opponent is gloating therefore my injuries are healed" boost and is suddenly fine for the rest of the episode.

Cleganebowl was forced and full of shit, completely contradicting the laws previously set out by the show. If Gregor overcomes all of his "programming" just because he sees his brother, why didn't that happen in the Dragon Pit? And why can he survive a sword through the stomach and a dagger through the brain? What did Qyburn build there and if he's capable of that he could surely have won the war single handedly .

Onto the Mad Queen arc. I fully expect that this decision is roughly consistent with what George RR Martin is going to write, a huge turning point at the conclusion of this story, and I'm sorry, but I just didn't buy it. The character we've seen on screen up until and including earlier this episode, would not have made that decision when they started ringing the bells. For 7 seasons we've seen Daenerys find the balance between love and fear with reasonable success for a young ruler like she is. We've seen her be measured and intelligent. She's spent 7 seasons and the start of this one with moments of that madness on show but ultimately winning over the Dothraki (twice), the Unsullied, the cities of Slavers Bay, Tyrion and Jon Snow, both characters we respect. 

When Cersei blew up the Sept of Baelor, it worked. We've seen that this is a bitter character who was in love with her twin brother and has pushed her line of what's acceptable further and further back, gradually throughout the first six season of the show. What they tried to do with Dany is seven seasons of doing the right thing then literally one episode last week of bad things happening to her and suddenly she's ready to slaughter a million people? I don't buy it, sorry, that moment when she decided to burn the city anyway has to be the absolute low point in the series for me because I just can't do the mental gymnastics to accept that that's a believable turn of events.

Was good to see Arya playing the Samwell Tarly role this episode of dying 13 times but still being alive at the end. Once again, I'm not demanding deaths of main characters left right and centre but it's just boring watching Arya get buried under rubble and fire again every 3 minutes and not being remotely worried about her being dead. The series has reached the point now of having so many fake deaths every episode that I just don't even care when it looks like somebody is going to die. Part of it is because the show isn't going to go on for long without them, but ultimately there's been so much emotional investment in the countless fake deaths that every time it looks like someone's going to die, I just fully expect it to be another fake out. I didn't care when Euron died, I didn't care when The Hound had his complete Hollywood death, and I didn't even care when Jaime died which is a shame as he's one of my favourite characters.

The things I actually liked:

- the action

- the tension in the battle scenes until it became a 30 minute loop of people getting burned alive and shocked faces from our main characters

- the overriding story even if the journey in between the plot points has become lazy and contrived

- Peter Dinklage

- Nikolaj Coster-Waldau

- some of the music at the start

- Arya getting her humanity back to some extent

Overall a 6/10 if I'm being generous but if the writing was like this back in season one I doubt the show would have made it this far. Now being carried by great actors and a huge budget.

[Viva la FCB+]

Varys and Little finger died for this. Honestly im mostly eager to go back and watch from the begining again when its all over. I had watched the first 3 or 4 seasons many times over as I kept starting it again with new people that I kidnapped to watch it with but its been awhile now. The scene Tommy linked is exactly what I remember being some of the best parts about the show and its definitely gone in the last few seasons. My biggest gripe now is probably just how rushed everything feels, I can get passed some of the plotholes or bad writing but it just didnt need to be rammed into 6 episodes to close everything out. Anyways im excited to see how the end plays out It could still go a few different ways. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

I'd also like to note that many of us have failed miserably for this latest episode in terms of using the spoilers tags. Except for @RandoEFC

[Cicero]

Nah if you haven't seen it then stay the fuck away from the topic. It's what I did the past two episodes given I was busy the past two sundays.