Liverpool Discussion

[Stan]

This isn't meant to incite, or provoke, or antagonise. Purely just a reference point and an interesting article about age of squads (Arsenal are used as a comparison). Don't hate. 

 

 

[Happy Blue]

Klopp "we lost because we ran out of time"   ..maybe time's running on on Klopp's Liverpool career? 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Stan said:

This isn't meant to incite, or provoke, or antagonise. Purely just a reference point and an interesting article about age of squads (Arsenal are used as a comparison). Don't hate. 

 

 

Honestly age doesn’t excuse the performances over the last 3 matches. It’s only a few months ago this old squad was working really hard and making other teams scared.

Imo it’s a mix of complacency and tactics that just don’t really work + too much reliance on players that have been injury prone for years. That leads to tactical decisions that don’t work - Milner & Henderson as the pivot has never really worked throughout Klopp’s tenure.

It’s not helped when Milner isn’t holding his position the whole match & when you’ve got Henderson, Elliott, and Trent all occupying the same pocket of space most of the match… we hardly had any actual midfielders in the centre of the pitch. That’s the biggest failing of yesterday, it was a massive tactical breakdown.

The only thing I will say about age of players being an issue is we just can’t rely on Milner for anything other than an experienced player off the bench. But the alternative is playing Henderson with 2 teenagers alongside him in a match away to a massive rival -

We’re not that far removed from injury crisis ruining one of our seasons before. I think this season could be similar in that regard.

But it should be better, but the players need to pull their fingers out because it’s not age that’s making players lose concentration. And it’s not age making Milner and Henderson completely unable to hold their positions.

[Chickasaw]

19 hours ago, Happy Blue said:

Klopp "we lost because we ran out of time"   ..maybe time's running on on Klopp's Liverpool career? 

For me Klopp is on an equal tier with Pep, Ancelotti, Jose and Antonio, one of the world's elite coaches as we have seen by his record at Liverpool. Now, at Chelsea when all was going well Jose was excellent but when things started to go wrong we clearly saw he was not the man for a crisis and he failed to pull Chelsea round. Is Klopp the same? So far we have seen all going well but now Liverpool are, in what I would call a mini crisis. Let's see if Klopp can turn it round or is he another Jose?

You're lucky to be playing Bournemouth next but Newcastle follow. Unless there's a HUGE improvement I can't see you winning in Geordieland at the moment.

[Chickasaw]

You'll be ok Liverpool, there was no way you were going to beat Utd anyway but you'll be ok.

[Spike]

I don't know why people downplay the rivalry that Liverpool and Chelsea had for about five years. It produced match after match of stellar performances on both teams. Nowadays not so much but from around 2005-2010 it was dynamite.

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Spike

[Dr. Gonzo]

36 minutes ago, Spike said:

I don't know why people downplay the rivalry that Liverpool and Chelsea had for about five years. It produced match after match of stellar performances on both teams. Nowadays not so much but from around 2005-2010 it was dynamite.

It's probably because in a lot of peoples' eyes we aren't/weren't rivals. There's no real connection for us hating Chelsea other than: having a lot of money & that the Chelsea fanbase has a lot of fucking tories. So from a lot of Liverpool fans perspectives, seeing Chelsea fans work themselves up about us was particularly funny - like a lot of them got bored of Fulham being their local rival so they had to make up a rivalry about us. Not so much from the lads we know on the forum, who are pretty sound, but a lot of the "banter" from Chelsea fans did end up making a lot of us seriously detest them because it just reeked of classism.

But despite the classic matches from that era... it's not like we were ever really in competition with Chelsea at that time. We were never really serious contenders for the league title, other than one year (where Chelsea didn't win) - it was more of Rafa just having us punch above our weight in the CL against them in the "ghost goal" match that I feel really kicked off the "rivalry." That Rafa & Mourinho detested each other maybe made it seem like more of a rivalry to neutrals.

And I'm sure it didn't help that the media wanted to constantly bring up Lampard v. Gerrard, and they probably had a hand in manufacturing some animosity between the fans... but I don't think that made many Liverpool fans or Chelsea fans treat it like a serious rivalry. Just the smooth brain lads like @The Liquidator treated it as a serious rivalry.

I guess it depends on your definition of "rival" though.

[Spike]

18 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It's probably because in a lot of peoples' eyes we aren't/weren't rivals. There's no real connection for us hating Chelsea other than: having a lot of money & that the Chelsea fanbase has a lot of fucking tories. So from a lot of Liverpool fans perspectives, seeing Chelsea fans work themselves up about us was particularly funny - like a lot of them got bored of Fulham being their local rival so they had to make up a rivalry about us. Not so much from the lads we know on the forum, who are pretty sound, but a lot of the "banter" from Chelsea fans did end up making a lot of us seriously detest them because it just reeked of classism.

But despite the classic matches from that era... it's not like we were ever really in competition with Chelsea at that time. We were never really serious contenders for the league title, other than one year (where Chelsea didn't win) - it was more of Rafa just having us punch above our weight in the CL against them in the "ghost goal" match that I feel really kicked off the "rivalry." That Rafa & Mourinho detested each other maybe made it seem like more of a rivalry to neutrals.

And I'm sure it didn't help that the media wanted to constantly bring up Lampard v. Gerrard, and they probably had a hand in manufacturing some animosity between the fans... but I don't think that made many Liverpool fans or Chelsea fans treat it like a serious rivalry. Just the smooth brain lads like @The Liquidator treated it as a serious rivalry.

I guess it depends on your definition of "rival" though.

I’m not talking about the fans. I don’t give a fuck what fans think. The players, mangers, and clubs were at each other and it was great.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Spike said:

I’m not talking about the fans. I don’t give a fuck what fans think. The players, mangers, and clubs were at each other and it was great.

Well why would that continue beyond a brief period? Tbh that was really just fueled by the detest Mourinho and Rafa had between each other. That’s going to be a motivating factor in how the players react too.

Idk what you mean by “players, manager, and clubs” being at each other if you don’t give a fuck about the fans… because what else could club mean? Their boardrooms? As far as I know they never hated each other - they probably liked the media hype around the fixtures because marketing.

[Waylander]

I guess with Ferguson's Utd starting to regress the feeling at Anfield was it was their time to dominate yet Abramovich flew in and hired Mourinho who quickly put together a title challenging side.

Add in two managers that despised each other and the melodramatic Mourinho at pitch side and it must have earned loads of advertising revenue for Sky or whoever.

During those years though Mourinho also had arguably worse relationship with Wenger and the matches were frantic affairs and sometimes ugly.

@Dr. Gonzo would you say Liverpool had a bigger rivalry with Arsenal?

 

 

 

[Spike]

6 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Well why would that continue beyond a brief period? Tbh that was really just fueled by the detest Mourinho and Rafa had between each other. That’s going to be a motivating factor in how the players react too.

Idk what you mean by “players, manager, and clubs” being at each other if you don’t give a fuck about the fans… because what else could club mean? Their boardrooms? As far as I know they never hated each other - they probably liked the media hype around the fixtures because marketing.

I never said anything about hatred. You’re reading too much into this, I just said the two clubs had a lot of good games for a few years. I don’t care if the fans dislike each other or lick each other’s arseholes, I’m just talking about the games, and reminiscing on them. Now I don’t care if the two teams play but it used to be a highlight. The last time it looked even somewhat heated was the game after Torres transferred, and that was 12 years ago.

I knew I should not have used the word rivalry because people always misunderstand that word. Every single team is a rival by definition 

Edited August 26, 2022 by Spike

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 hours ago, Waylander said:

I guess with Ferguson's Utd starting to regress the feeling at Anfield was it was their time to dominate yet Abramovich flew in and hired Mourinho who quickly put together a title challenging side.

Add in two managers that despised each other and the melodramatic Mourinho at pitch side and it must have earned loads of advertising revenue for Sky or whoever.

During those years though Mourinho also had arguably worse relationship with Wenger and the matches were frantic affairs and sometimes ugly.

@Dr. Gonzo would you say Liverpool had a bigger rivalry with Arsenal?

 

 

 

Nah not really. Arsenal and Chelsea are both big matches but I wouldn’t really consider either a rival

[Spike]

17 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Nah not really. Arsenal and Chelsea are both big matches but I wouldn’t really consider either a rival

What is a rival then? Do you mean synonymous with derby? A rival is anything competing for the same goal.

if you mean derby, then yeah I agree with you, they aren’t derbies but that doesn’t mean they aren’t big matches that can’t get heated. All the teams are most definitely rivals

[Cicero]

Tbh I always felt United the bigger rival during that period over Liverpool. Exchanging league titles over a few years, then the FA Cup final and the Champions League final the following season. 

[Spike]

22 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Tbh I always felt United the bigger rival during that period over Liverpool. Exchanging league titles over a few years, then the FA Cup final and the Champions League final the following season. 

It was the best period of English football in general.

[Danny]

14 hours ago, Spike said:

I’m not talking about the fans. I don’t give a fuck what fans think. The players, mangers, and clubs were at each other and it was great.

Mate fans make a rivalry. Most rivalries in the UK (that weren’t already derbies) were formed or intensified through hooliganism and that hatred will often stay on.

There is barely any animosity between Chelsea and Liverpool fans.

[Spike]

1 hour ago, Danny said:

Mate fans make a rivalry. Most rivalries in the UK (that weren’t already derbies) were formed or intensified through hooliganism and that hatred will often stay on.

There is barely any animosity between Chelsea and Liverpool fans.

Again I should not have said rivalry because it’s never used correctly.

Rivalry doesn’t mean enemy or animosity, it means competition.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rivalry

[Spike]

You know what I regret bringing it up. I just wanted to reminisce on some fun game from the past, not argue about the fucking semantics of ‘rivalry’

@Stan delete this thread and ban everyone involved. Thanks.

[Stan]

4 minutes ago, Spike said:

You know what I regret bringing it up. I just wanted to reminisce on some fun game from the past, not argue about the fucking semantics of ‘rivalry’

@Stan delete this thread and ban everyone involved. Thanks.

I got where you're coming from to be honest.

Liverpool/Chelsea had a rivalry (albeit short-term) in some sorts because of the competitive nature of where both clubs were at. They used to be games that any fan would look forward to purely because it was entertaining and there'd always be some kind of drama or controversy - I think the latter point helped because Jose was in charge and he gave a lot fuel to the fire.

So while it might not have been a natural rivalry like Liverpool quite obviously have with Everton/Man Utd. It still had a lot of edge to it, and there was that competitive edge in Champions League. And I think in a few of the cup competitions (I still remember Riise banging in an unstoppable left-foot volley in FA or League Cup final). 

I'm with you on the reminiscing from that era. Liverpool and Arsenal was a great match-up too. Constantly goals galore in those games.

[Spike]

10 minutes ago, Stan said:

I got where you're coming from to be honest.

Liverpool/Chelsea had a rivalry (albeit short-term) in some sorts because of the competitive nature of where both clubs were at. They used to be games that any fan would look forward to purely because it was entertaining and there'd always be some kind of drama or controversy - I think the latter point helped because Jose was in charge and he gave a lot fuel to the fire.

So while it might not have been a natural rivalry like Liverpool quite obviously have with Everton/Man Utd. It still had a lot of edge to it, and there was that competitive edge in Champions League. And I think in a few of the cup competitions (I still remember Riise banging in an unstoppable left-foot volley in FA or League Cup final). 

I'm with you on the reminiscing from that era. Liverpool and Arsenal was a great match-up too. Constantly goals galore in those games.

I just wanted to talk about some games but instead I got the scolding ‘ackshually Spike you fucking arsehole…’. Dammit guys cut me some slack I don’t care what teams you hate, you know this, I’m not English - I don’t care I don’t have a horse in the race.

I’m a football fan, I don’t care about derbies, hooliganism, and whatever else. It has nothing to do with me,I don’t care if the fans don’t think it’s anything because the players obviously did and I’m here to watch football not punch someone in the head because different team.

it makes no difference to me if Liverpool fans and Chelsea fans fight or fuck each other in the bum, that’s what I mean when I say I don’t care what the fans think. I’m not saying it doesn’t matter at all, but it’s not something i care about.

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 hours ago, Spike said:

What is a rival then? Do you mean synonymous with derby? A rival is anything competing for the same goal.

if you mean derby, then yeah I agree with you, they aren’t derbies but that doesn’t mean they aren’t big matches that can’t get heated. All the teams are most definitely rivals

Well it's football, so put the "normal" definition back in the dictionary because it's stupid to call every team your rival even though they literally all are rivals because you are facing them in a competition for something 

Imo your footballing rivals are the ones like derbies (for us Everton) or your hated enemies (Manchester United). A lot of Liverpool fans do hate Chelsea, but mostly for reasons that Chelsea are generally disliked by a LOT of clubs: far right dickheads & racism... and even I know that's not what a lot of Chelsea fans like about their club and it's probably something that pisses a lot of them off too.

2 hours ago, Danny said:

Mate fans make a rivalry. Most rivalries in the UK (that weren’t already derbies) were formed or intensified through hooliganism and that hatred will often stay on.

There is barely any animosity between Chelsea and Liverpool fans.

In essence, this.

[Spike]

28 minutes ago, Spike said:

I just wanted to talk about some games but instead I got the scolding ‘ackshually Spike you fucking arsehole…’. Dammit guys cut me some slack I don’t care what teams you hate, you know this, I’m not English - I don’t care I don’t have a horse in the race.

I’m a football fan, I don’t care about derbies, hooliganism, and whatever else. It has nothing to do with me,I don’t care if the fans don’t think it’s anything because the players obviously did and I’m here to watch football not punch someone in the head because different team.

it makes no difference to me if Liverpool fans and Chelsea fans fight or fuck each other in the bum, that’s what I mean when I say I don’t care what the fans think. I’m not saying it doesn’t matter at all, but it’s not something i care about.

 

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Well it's football, so put the "normal" definition back in the dictionary because it's stupid to call every team your rival even though they literally all are rivals because you are facing them in a competition for something 

Imo your footballing rivals are the ones like derbies (for us Everton) or your hated enemies (Manchester United). A lot of Liverpool fans do hate Chelsea, but mostly for reasons that Chelsea are generally disliked by a LOT of clubs: far right dickheads & racism... and even I know that's not what a lot of Chelsea fans like about their club and it's probably something that pisses a lot of them off too.

In essence, this.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

27 minutes ago, Spike said:

I just wanted to talk about some games but instead I got the scolding ‘ackshually Spike you fucking arsehole…’.

Tbh I don't even think those games are that "classic" other than the ghost goal one (but I'm biased).

[Dr. Gonzo]

47 minutes ago, Stan said:

Liverpool/Chelsea had a rivalry (albeit short-term) in some sorts because of the competitive nature of where both clubs were at.

But were we even at the same levels? We were good, but not great, and mostly a cup team in that era. Chelsea were expected to compete on pretty much all fronts.

[Spike]

49 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Tbh I don't even think those games are that "classic" other than the ghost goal one (but I'm biased).

Watch highlights of the 4-4. It was box to box, insane game. Makes the current game look like rubbish