(QF) Portugal 0-0(p) France - Friday 5th July, 2024

[RandoEFC+]

France have been pretty turgid all tournament and wouldn't have been missed. Portugal also deserve to get binned out though because they've employed a manager who has just pandered to an expired and goalless Ronaldo for the entire tournament wasting an otherwise talented and exciting side that could have been up there with Spain as one of the most impressive sides.

I might cry if Spain don't beat France in the semi-final. There's been some great entertainment throughout this tournament but a lot of the supposed best teams have served up some real anti-football, especially in the knockout matches.

[Tommy]

Same with England, I don't understand how France can have so many quality players, yet play so bad. Every time you think, well this game they're gonna put their talent on the road and show a performance befitting these great players, but every time they play absolutely shite. Especially in front of goal. 

And I really think Portugal could have won this if they had a striker upfront who actually does something else than looking at himself on the screen. 

[El Profesor]

1 minute ago, 6666 said:

0 goals from open play and into the semifinals. 2 own goals & a penalty.

They´re playing like Greece in 2004.

Since 2018, the whole Deschamps offensive strategy is centered around Mbappé. Now that Mbappé is not at his best, their attack looks really anemic.

 

Roberto Martínez really cost a talented portuguese generation of players with his stubbornness regarding the role of Cristiano Ronaldo.

At this point of his career, Ronaldo should be no more than a sub.

[Dave]

I wonder what job Roberto Martinez will somehow blag next.

Probably England.

[Gunnersaurus]

Just now, The Palace Fan said:

I wonder what job Roberto Martinez will somehow blag next.

Probably England.

He does seem to have a habit of managing to get good jobs. Maybe Portugal will hire Kompany next 

[Dan+]

So annoyed. Going to a gig tomorrow and will miss probably part of England's game, and certainly all of Holland Turkey. Really wished todays games were tomorrow because I knew that would be utterly abysmal.

Portugal and France are good teams but truly stink the gaff out in the process every single time. France's is through pure pragmatism taken to the extreme, Portugal are a flawed side who cannot help but pander to Ronaldo. I find it a tricky one, he obviously deserves massive respect for what he's achieved as a player but how they're still building every aspect of their game around him. Martinez should go for this tournament showing. You gained literally nothing that Santos wouldn't have offered.

Horrid game of football and a symbol of how badly this tournament has fallen. I know the knockouts can often be duller than the groups but this has taken it to a new level this time.

Absolutely shocking game.

[Tommy]

That Pepe vs. Thuram challenge was amazing. Thuram had the pace advantage, but Pepe still got him in the end. What a fucking defender. 

[Gunnersaurus]

Just now, Tommy said:

That Pepe vs. Thuram challenge was amazing. Thuram had the pace advantage, but Pepe still got him in the end. What a fucking defender. 

Is Pepe a massive cunt or am I thinking of someone else ?

[Tommy]

3 minutes ago, Gunnersaurus said:

Is Pepe a massive cunt or am I thinking of someone else ?

I think he mellowed with age. He only had two fouls in the whole tournament. And while his lack of pace showed at times, he still showed remarkable defending abilities. 

[El Profesor]

1 minute ago, Tommy said:

I think he mellowed with age. He only had two fouls in the whole tournament. And while his lack of pace showed at times, he still showed remarkable defending abilities. 

 

I don´t think it´s a coincidence that most of his stupid and violent deeds were committed during the time Mourinho was managing Real Madrid.

Obviously, I am not implying Mourinho is responsible for Pepe´s actions, but I really feel like Mourinho style of management, the whole us versus them motivation techniques Mou employs were poison for a player like Pepe, who already has a short temper.

I would say, yes Pepe definitely is a prick. But he is also a portuguese football legend.

Considering his longevity and achievements, he probably belongs in the top 10 of portuguese football history. Maybe top 5.

IMO Pepe and not Ronaldo was the best portuguese player in the 2016 european title.

We really screwed up with Pepe by not calling him before Portugal did. A Thiago Silva and Pepe defense would have been unreal.

 

[Machado]

I was about to say, the level Pepe showed in this tournament at 41 is not to be forgotten. He was better than Ronaldo today, as he always was for the national team.

If we were to do an average rating of every player that ever played for Portugal, all tournaments considered, we would find Pepe was far better than Ronaldo, and probably top 2/3 all time. Ridiculously consistent since 2008. Maybe felt he had more to prove since he's born in Brazil, and he certainly did prove it.

Ronaldo in 200+ games got us out of trouble in a handful of them, at best.

3 goals in 21 knock-out matches, frankly a pathetic record. Scored a lot of goals against minnows which tell a lie about his true impact.

Edited July 5 by Machado

[El Profesor]

4 minutes ago, Machado said:

I was about to say, the level Pepe showed in this tournament at 41 is not to be forgotten. He was better than Ronaldo today, as he always was for the national team.

If we were to do an average rating of every player that ever played for Portugal, all tournaments considered, we would find Pepe was far better than Ronaldo, and probably top 2/3 all time.

Ronaldo in 200+ games got us out of trouble in a handful of them, at best.

3 goals in 21 knock-out matches, frankly a pathetic record. Scored a lot of goals against minnows which tell a lie about his true impact.

 

Couldn´t agree more.

Ronaldo almost never performed at his top level for Portugal.

For all the crap Messi got during most of his career for not stepping up for Argentina, it´s Ronaldo´s international legacy that should be questioned.

The one time I can remember he was in fact great for Portugal was in 2013 versus Sweden, when he led Portugal in that two-legged playoff to qualify for the 2014 World Cup.

[Machado]

"Portugal v France: a galactic battle lost in the black hole of one man's ego

This Euro 2024 clash could have been an all-time great quarter-final, and instead a part of it was stolen

Even his absence feels like a kind of presence. The cameras continue to seek him out. The fans in the stands in their replica Manchester United tops screech a little louder, scowl a little harder. The less he does, the important he becomes. The more he disappears into this game, the heavier it feels, like a black hole sucking everything into its vortex.

And ultimately Portugal too. The sabotage is complete. One of the most talented squads ever assembled at this level of football disappears into that self same black hole, a Vegas-era Elvis act ultimately notable only for its ability to make us gawp and keep gawping. It's too awful to watch. It's too awful not to watch. The clock ticks into its third hour, the second quarter-final suspended like a sentence that can never end, and yet with the knowledge of exactly how it ends. Meanwhile, Gonçalo Ramos and Diogo Jota sit on the bench.

This was not a bad game of football. No game with this many spellbindingly brilliant players on the pitch can ever be truly tedious. Indeed, the talent is a kind of protagonist in its own right. It was a game that felt – for better and worse – like a final, every action and decision dancing on the cusp of instant disaster. Football with maximum context: every pass and tackle freighted with meaning and intent, every shot on goal like a death.

Some of the finishing is truly awful. Some of the defending is gladiatorial. Early in the game Randal Kolo Muani picks up the ball just outside the area and Pepe just puts him into a taxi, bundles him aside like a vengeful father. Pepe will end the game with 152 touches, more than anyone else on the pitch. Pepe will sprint stride for stride with the substitute Marcus Thuram – a man to whom he is giving 15 years and 90 minutes in the legs – and put the ball out for a corner. Pepe will block a shot from Kylian Mbappé and celebrate it like an Olympic gold medal.

Rúben Dias will make a crucial block on Kolo Muani as he goes through on goal. Nuno Mendes will slide in on Mbappé just as the great man is about to pull the trigger. At the other end Eduardo Camavinga will make a brilliant sprawling tackle on a rushing Rafael Leão, a fraction of a second before he shoots from a tight angle. William Saliba will just be quietly brilliant. This is not the stuff of highlights reels and social media gold-dust. But it is, in its own way, the very highest form of footballing heroism.

The temptation is to point at this French side, with their semi-final berth and their zero goals from open play, and to remark sardonically that Didier Deschamps has finally managed to create a team perfectly in his own image. This is, of course, unfair. Deschamps was ruthlessly selfless as a player, his every action oriented towards the collective. France, on the other hand, have the feel of a team being held together by success alone. Get enough talent in there, and maybe the teamwork takes care of itself. No wonder they finally seemed to free up when penalties arrived: a series of simple individual battles, a test of personal skill, no tactics, no complications.

And yet even Deschamps has the presence to withdraw Mbappé in the 106th minute when it becomes clear that it's not going to be his night. He was outrun by João Cancelo, couldn't convert any of his five shots, and if Mbappé can't sprint and can't shoot, then frankly all you really have left is a man in a mask pointing into spaces. He sees out the closing minutes sat on the bench, an ice pack pressed to his nose.

But at least France know how to function without their captain. Portugal, by contrast, are still wedded to theirs, the chain-wrapped anvil that will eventually bring them all down. There is little point giving him anything to chase, or playing any pass to him longer than about 20 yards. If he peels to the left wing in the 53rd minute, he won't make it back into the centre until the 55th. He misses terribly from close range. He claims another free-kick from an impossible angle, and somehow manages to hit all three players in the wall.

In a way, it's hard not to feel resentful of him: resentful of the way this grand, galaxy-sized occasion is ultimately reduced to a function of one man's ego. This could have been an all-time great quarter-final, and instead a part of it was stolen: stolen ball possession, stolen attention, stolen minutes from better players who actually deserve to be there, rather than a pure anachronism trotting out simply because no one has the clout to tell him not to.

Théo Hernandez scores the winning penalty, and immediately the Portuguese players instinctively flood towards the heartbroken João Félix, the only man to miss his penalty, and gather him in their arms. Mendes runs to him. João Palhinha runs to him. Nelson Semedo runs to him. Pepe sets aside his own sadness – this may well have been his last game – and runs to him. There is still a team here, and the only sadness is that we never got to see it.

One man does not run to Félix. Instead he walks in the other direction, off on his own, pursued only by the prurient gaze of the camera. It's Cristiano Ronaldo."

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jul/05/portugal-v-france-a-galaxy-sized-occasion-sucked-into-the-black-hole-of-one-mans-ego

[Dan+]

5 hours ago, Machado said:

I was about to say, the level Pepe showed in this tournament at 41 is not to be forgotten. He was better than Ronaldo today, as he always was for the national team.

If we were to do an average rating of every player that ever played for Portugal, all tournaments considered, we would find Pepe was far better than Ronaldo, and probably top 2/3 all time. Ridiculously consistent since 2008. Maybe felt he had more to prove since he's born in Brazil, and he certainly did prove it.

Ronaldo in 200+ games got us out of trouble in a handful of them, at best.

3 goals in 21 knock-out matches, frankly a pathetic record. Scored a lot of goals against minnows which tell a lie about his true impact.

That's a genuinely awful record. I had no idea it was that bad. I find the pandering to any individual ridiculous and England have been guilty on occasion but Portugal do it to a degree I've never seen, and for the sake of 3 fucking goals?

Really is ridiculous. He really has got to jack it in now. He was a complete passenger again.

[Azeem]

Indeed Ronaldo has a poor record at major tournaments but I don't agree with the notion that Portugal are that big of a team and they would go wow without Ronaldo. 

They are a bit of lucky to not have missed a single tournament in recent times when England, Italy, Netherlands have all missed some tournaments over the years. As El Professor mentioned those playoffs vs Sweden, which is one of the many times they flirted with not qualifying and Ronaldo deserves credit for bailing them out in those qualifier matches quite a few times.

If not for the expansions I'm pretty sure they would've missed some international tournaments post-Ronaldo

[Machado]

56 minutes ago, Beelzebub said:

I don't agree with the notion that Portugal are that big of a team

Individually we are as good as any in the tournament. We were better than France last night...

59 minutes ago, Beelzebub said:

and they would go wow without Ronaldo. 

I don't think anyone is claiming that to be the case. If you watched the games, surely you saw Ronaldo was struggling to look like a professional footballer. All we're asking is to play 11 vs 11.

1 hour ago, Beelzebub said:

They are a bit of lucky to not have missed a single tournament in recent times when England, Italy, Netherlands have all missed some tournaments over the years. As El Professor mentioned those playoffs vs Sweden, which is one of the many times they flirted with not qualifying and Ronaldo deserves credit for bailing them out in those qualifier matches quite a few times.

Not quite a few times, just once.

Why were we lucky? You could say that or you could give us credit for not missing any tournament while other major nations did. Portugal have been sailing through most qualifiers this century. I would say we were unlucky in some games that almost ended up costing us.

[Pep Talk]

France doing just enough to win 

[Rucksackfranzose]

3 hours ago, Machado said:

Individually we are as good as any in the tournament. We were better than France last night...

I don't think anyone is claiming that to be the case. If you watched the games, surely you saw Ronaldo was struggling to look like a professional footballer. All we're asking is to play 11 vs 11.

Not quite a few times, just once.

Why were we lucky? You could say that or you could give us credit for not missing any tournament while other major nations did. Portugal have been sailing through most qualifiers this century. I would say we were unlucky in some games that almost ended up costing us.

That's a strange way to put it. It's not like UEFA made nominating and playing Ronaldo a condition to partake for Portugal.

[El Profesor]

6 hours ago, Beelzebub said:

Indeed Ronaldo has a poor record at major tournaments but I don't agree with the notion that Portugal are that big of a team and they would go wow without Ronaldo. 

They are a bit of lucky to not have missed a single tournament in recent times when England, Italy, Netherlands have all missed some tournaments over the years. As El Professor mentioned those playoffs vs Sweden, which is one of the many times they flirted with not qualifying and Ronaldo deserves credit for bailing them out in those qualifier matches quite a few times.

If not for the expansions I'm pretty sure they would've missed some international tournaments post-Ronaldo

 

Ronaldo never really had a signature moment in an international competition. I wouldn't count the hat-trick against Spain in 2018 as such, considering it was a group stage match and that Portugal ended up being eliminated to a mediocre Uruguay. 

But I agree with the notion that Ronaldo made the Portugal NT and portuguese football as a whole bigger and more important.

It was the Figo generation that put Portugal back on the football map, that 2000 side was a joy to watch by the way 

On the other hand though, it's impossible to deny that Ronaldo made the portuguese national team a huge deal globally and gave it a different status. 

To sum up, Ronaldo's record at international is kinda disappointing but  he still belongs in the Mount Rushmore of portuguese football, all things considered.

 

Edited July 6 by El Profesor