Jack Wilshere Leaves West Ham By Mutual Consent

[Smiley Culture]

I can’t see how you can compare Henderson and Wilshere beyond their first names beginning with J. They’re two different types of player. 

[Danny]

3 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

I can’t see how you can compare Henderson and Wilshere beyond their first names beginning with J. They’re two different types of player. 

Henderson started out as a right midfielder, he was intended as more of an attacking midfielder under previous managers

[Smiley Culture]

7 minutes ago, Danny said:

Henderson started out as a right midfielder, he was intended as more of an attacking midfielder under previous managers

Right, which is a position that Wilshere didn’t play either (even though Henderson barely played a year in the first team on the right at Sunderland). So I really don’t get the comparisons. 

[The Artful Dodger]

Wilshere was certainly more naturally gifted than Henderson and showed great potential. Never kicked on beyond the ‘talented kid’ stage though where Henderson has improved with age and found his niche, with the perfect manager for his abilities. Henderson has clearly had the better career but I’m not sure anyone would have seen that eventuality even 5 years ago.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Smiley Culture said:

I can’t see how you can compare Henderson and Wilshere beyond their first names beginning with J. They’re two different types of player. 

Is right

[Tommy]

Didn't know where else to put this, but this is actually pretty funny. 

 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

That's excellent 

[Guest]

On 10/07/2018 at 02:25, Machado said:

This guy is the definition of loser and his career is a joke.

34 England caps and regularly got in the arsenal squad when he wasnt injured. He had a lot of injuries but he has still a career better than alot of players 

[Cicero]

Peaked at bloody 18. 

[Spike]

He was really good for a couple of months, the type of good you set your watch to.

[Machado]

3 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said:

34 England caps and regularly got in the arsenal squad when he wasnt injured. He had a lot of injuries but he has still a career better than alot of players 

There is a reason England were so shit not so long ago.

Had a better career than a lot of players, right, how many of those more talented than him? That's the point.

I was silly to call him loser, don't even like the word, but he clearly lost himself at some point, which is a shame.

[Spike]

15 minutes ago, Machado said:

There is a reason England were so shit not so long ago.

Had a better career than a lot of players, right, how many of those more talented than him? That's the point.

I was silly to call him loser, don't even like the word, but he clearly lost himself at some point, which is a shame.

He annihilated his ankle at 18 and re-injured it regularly.

[Danny]

Wilshere at his best was a good player but Guardiola had it right when he said Barce had about 3-4 Wilshere’s in their academy. Wilshere suffered from not looking like a traditionally English player, wasn’t as stiff looking as Gerrard, Lampard etc. Moved around like a Spaniard or a South American and visually that alongside his natural talent overhyped how good he could be cos there was just a lack of young English talent coming through 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

He was always half the player Ramsay was. But early on got more of the attention. Eventually he faded away. Shame he was so injured that he basically no longer plays, but yeah, fancy West ham player or Spurs bench at best 

[Rick]

That video was stupid as fuck. Surely he’s been offered a club somewhere?  Is he expecting Stevie to give him a call and get him in the Villa 11? What level is he expecting? 
 

If he agrees to a pay as you play type deal or not getting paid if he gets long injuries then somebody will snap him up. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

The only reason he's not at a club right now is because he's refusing to accept he's not as good as the player he was once hyped to be.

I think it's monumentally delusional, he was one of the most overrated and overhyped players I've ever seen in my life. If he can't realise his injuries have derailed him from being the player he was once tipped to be and isn't willing to try to get things back on track at a lower level (which I think is reasonable considering his injury history and how many years it's been since he looked like a "good" player) then he's going to keep not having a club.

[Spike]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The only reason he's not at a club right now is because he's refusing to accept he's not as good as the player he was once hyped to be.

I think it's monumentally delusional, he was one of the most overrated and overhyped players I've ever seen in my life. If he can't realise his injuries have derailed him from being the player he was once tipped to be and isn't willing to try to get things back on track at a lower level (which I think is reasonable considering his injury history and how many years it's been since he looked like a "good" player) then he's going to keep not having a club.

He played in the Championship. I think he well aware he isn't close to being what he could have been.

[Spike]

8 hours ago, Danny said:

Wilshere at his best was a good player but Guardiola had it right when he said Barce had about 3-4 Wilshere’s in their academy. Wilshere suffered from not looking like a traditionally English player, wasn’t as stiff looking as Gerrard, Lampard etc. Moved around like a Spaniard or a South American and visually that alongside his natural talent overhyped how good he could be cos there was just a lack of young English talent coming through 

Not a dig or anything like that but I thought you'd be the type to not classify a player on their nationality!

[Danny]

47 minutes ago, Spike said:

Not a dig or anything like that but I thought you'd be the type to not classify a player on their nationality!

What? Haha. There’s definitely a visual difference with how people carry the ball, body language etc between more technically proficient/low centre of gravity players and bigger less, I dunno tiki-taka players? Gerrard is a great but he carried the ball in a much more rigid way compared to someone like Andres Iniesta for example 

[Spike]

1 hour ago, Danny said:

What? Haha. There’s definitely a visual difference with how people carry the ball, body language etc between more technically proficient/low centre of gravity players and bigger less, I dunno tiki-taka players? Gerrard is a great but he carried the ball in a much more rigid way compared to someone like Andres Iniesta for example 

tl;dr I was thinking a lot about labels today and your post caught me while I was deep in thought.

I think it's too easy and doesn't mean anything real. You can't tell me that Gerrard was more rigid than Mascherano or Busquets, there nationality isn't a definition or an adjective or even a noun (well in relation to fooball haha). I think the English are trapped in a destructive thought process that 'English players can't be nimble or rely on technique' and dismiss players that are in fact those qualities, as if they never existed or those qualities don't exist and it's down to physical attributes. It's kinda like those coaches that were labelling the young black Englishmen as 'BBQ' as if players like Gareth Bale and Ben White aren't exactly that except ethnically British/whatever, and fit into different pigeonholes. These sort of labels are very narrowing and kind of constrict perception, it occurred to me one day years ago when I was watching a game and I saw a white player run fast, it must have been someone like Gareth Bale or Wayne Rooney; I thought to myself 'That white bloke is faster than the black guys, weird'. Why the hell did I think that? It makes no sense to have already assigned qualities to the players I'm watching without even having seen any evidence. I never used to think that way, I learnt that somewhere, that sort of unconscious bias and it's really weird and once you notice, it become a bit of a curiosity, where did that come from? why is that my thought process?

I've also been listening to Buddhism podcasts particular on  interdependency and looking at things wholistically instead of one or two attributes, so maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[Danny]

28 minutes ago, Spike said:

tl;dr I was thinking a lot about labels today and your post caught me while I was deep in thought.

I think it's too easy and doesn't mean anything real. You can't tell me that Gerrard was more rigid than Mascherano or Busquets, there nationality isn't a definition or an adjective or even a noun (well in relation to fooball haha). I think the English are trapped in a destructive thought process that 'English players can't be nimble or rely on technique' and dismiss players that are in fact those qualities, as if they never existed or those qualities don't exist and it's down to physical attributes. It's kinda like those coaches that were labelling the young black Englishmen as 'BBQ' as if players like Gareth Bale and Ben White aren't exactly that except ethnically British/whatever, and fit into different pigeonholes. These sort of labels are very narrowing and kind of constrict perception, it occurred to me one day years ago when I was watching a game and I saw a white player run fast, it must have been someone like Gareth Bale or Wayne Rooney; I thought to myself 'That white bloke is faster than the black guys, weird'. Why the hell did I think that? It makes no sense to have already assigned qualities to the players I'm watching without even having seen any evidence. I never used to think that way, I learnt that somewhere, that sort of unconscious bias and it's really weird and once you notice, it become a bit of a curiosity, where did that come from? why is that my thought process?

I've also been listening to Buddhism podcasts particular on  interdependency and looking at things wholistically instead of one or two attributes, so maybe that has something to do with it.

 

It was more a reflection in the time period, English football was in a rut. Barce and Spain were dominating and there were a lot of questions of “why can’t we bring players up to play like that”. Aesthetically Wilshere fitted the mould of players like Iniesta, Xavi, Messi etc and the fact he was a recent Arsenal academy product in a time of La Masia dominance contributed towards the rhetoric around him. Which goes back to the question being put forward to Pep about Jack Wilshere and how he would fit into the Barce team of the day.

The England team now unlike then has an identity, our playing style whether it’s defensive or attacking seems very English. But back then it was let’s try and copy Spain, let’s try and copy Germany.