Shots Fired Outside House of Commons (UK Parliament Building)

[6666]

41 minutes ago, Romesh said:

the road was closed at that time so they can't jump over the police cordon and blockade of ambulances to help. 

When the incidents happen is another matter and I totally agree. Put the fucking camera away and do what you can to help. 

No one's talking about them going over to help as it'd be stupid to expect them to go over to help when the ambulances are already there as they'd just get in the way. What I'm saying is why they want to stand around watching.

[Fairy In Boots]

5 hours ago, VanPanna said:

Unfortunately the mosques, the Universities, the schools, Jails etc are not doing enough to combat the evil ones who do follow the extreme version of Islam.  The problem you have for example like in Belgium, the area Sint Jans Molenbeek, the whole area knew there were extremists being harboured in the area but no one told authorities and even lied to cover the fact up before the houses were raided.   The same happens all over where you have large areas or an Islamic build up and the more areas are spreading across Europe in Germany, Netherlands, Belgium and as mentioned in England in Birmingham, Bradford, Luton and parts of London., they are left out of society and get to carry on with their own lives on how they would back in the middle east and north Africa.    The extremists are the ones causing a bad name to the good ones like any religion you need to source out the evil or they will be all tarnished with the same brush but for some reason it just isnt happening enough and that is the real problem.  

Pretty much 

5 hours ago, StefBWFC said:

The best way to do that is stopping carpet bombing the fuck out of Islamic countries and killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people. Terrorist attacks (especially those made in the name of Islam) are almost always reactionary actions to a much larger, more hateful action.

Unfortunately, our glorious leaders have realised that far, far too late - Bush and Blair's campaign of hate in the Middle East has achieved nothing but radicalising lots of people who, arguably quite rightly, see Western states as murderers imposing their ideologies on their way of life. Stick some videos online and sexualise the idea of fighting for your religion and fellow people against the big oppressor, and it's inevitable that some easily impressionable people, even those based in the West, are going to take it and run with it. 

I don't mean to sound like a total hippie, but is the man who did this really more 'evil' than political and military leaders in certain Western states? It may be controversial, but I'd be strongly inclined to say no.

I'm sorry the "it's a reaction to us bombing" doesn't stack up, why are Hindus being attacked in Bangladesh? Why are Philippines struggling with Islamic extremists? I don't remember phillipinos marching up the tigers. Why are Somalian Islamic extremists active in Kenya? I don't remember the Maasai storming Kandahar. China, India, Nigeria have terrorism are they western powers carpet bombing? It's just such a bull shit argument it really is. 

Granted western meddling has exacerbated the situation but it was a problem before we got involved and it's a problem in places you can't attribute to us.  As soon as we let Islam get a toe hold it was coming no matter what. It's been going on pretty much since word go, Afghan was Buddhist, Pakistan was Hindu, many others were a collection of faiths. I'm sure they sat there then saying "ah it's not all Muslims" look at them now. 

Nobody is disputing that it's not all Muslims, it's a greater portion than the 1-5% banded about though. So many agree with the installation of Sharia or punishment by Death for those who insult Islam that it's a significant problem. I noticed that cretin 666 likes your post. His own ancestors probably said what you have before they were forced to convert or get butchered. 

Put simply they outbreed us, they've got a culture of marriage from back home which means immigration continues apace. When they become dominant in a area they vote for their own (just look at local elections in London, Muslims take control of councils as they virtually block vote) and then that area starts to focus on pro Muslim moves like new mosques and schools. Other faiths and it's followers can expect intimidation and pressure to convert. Again it's not all but in any situation it's the fucker with a weapon calling the shots. As much as we've advanced as a species the laws of the jungle still apply, the strong rule the weak don't. 

I really do despair with you lot on this topic, it's ground hog day after every attack. The same old  "it's our fault for the gulf war crap". The 1400 year old history of Islam is there to read, it's been a constant aggressive march and it won't stop. It's not about racial traits it's about an ideology specifically designed to overcome and suppress opposing ideology. 

I know many of you just dismiss me as some sort of racist or bigot because of my view on Islam but the reality is if we don't do something our grandchildren or great grandchildren will have to fight this. We have huge social problems with the community, it's suppressed or apologised for because of the fear we appear racist. 

I'll say it one more time. Islam is an ideology that isn't racially specific. It's impossible to be racist because it encompasses people of all races.

Therefore like all ideologies it should be open to skepticism and judgement. The verdict is in, it's fucking filth, always has and always will be. 

 

[Dave]

4 hours ago, 6666 said:

People live off of retweets and likes now. I still can't get past how people are okay with standing and watching, it's like a show to them.

On a similar note I wonder how many MPs that ran praised Nigel McGuinness yesterday.

The whole evening show of MPs being interviewed on the news I couldn't really understand. Of the 29 injured none of them were injured or directly involved. Apart from those that ran of course. But they were loving the air time.

2 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

I've never heard so many police sirens as I have in the last 24 hours. Almost constant. I think the Police are driving around London with their sirens on to remind people they are here to protect and to calm fear. At least that seems like the kind of funny thing the met would think of.

I don't know this for fact but i think it's more that so many police officers are being pulled in all across London to help with the cordons and reassurance patrols they have to stick the sirens on to get there otherwise they never will get through the traffic (to then have a briefing) to then relieving the officers already there that would be claiming serious overtime. I know of one that was due to finish at seven this morning but wasn't taken off until half ten.

[Stan]

talking of MPs, think more should be said about Tobias Ellwood who was on hand to try and save PC Palmer, the copper who was stabbed, before medics got there. 

[Dave]

18 minutes ago, Romesh said:

talking of MPs, think more should be said about Tobias Ellwood who was on hand to try and save PC Palmer, the copper who was stabbed, before medics got there. 

From what I've seen on other sites and on the front pages of the media he's getting all the credit he rightfully deserves. In a time when the majority of people have never felt so distant from its MPs it's great and reassuring to know that people like him walk amongst them.

[Fairy In Boots]

21 minutes ago, Romesh said:

talking of MPs, think more should be said about Tobias Ellwood who was on hand to try and save PC Palmer, the copper who was stabbed, before medics got there. 

His brother was killed in the Bali bombing 

[Honey Honey]

34 minutes ago, Aaroncpfc said:

 

I don't know this for fact but i think it's more that so many police officers are being pulled in all across London to help with the cordons and reassurance patrols they have to stick the sirens on to get there otherwise they never will get through the traffic (to then have a briefing) to then relieving the officers already there that would be claiming serious overtime. I know of one that was due to finish at seven this morning but wasn't taken off until half ten.

Could be. I have seen a fair few walking around on the beat when I don't normally and also outside the library there was a couple of CSO's with a stall so that people could talk to the Police if they wanted advice. 

I think there is definitely a PR exercise going on which is fair enough really. Some people do live in fear and get reassured seeing an officer.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

5 hours ago, Toony said:

All the extra police around at the moment is an obvious precaution and probably one that's correct, however it's unlikely that another attack will be committed so close to the previous one with London now on standby, it'll be when everything has gone back to normal they'll strike again & that's the most unnerving part about all this.

 

Whats the point of having a bunch of cops cruising about when they are equipped to do fuck all? What are they going to do if they are on site for another attack? Get stabbed some more?

 

The fact that English police are unarmed in this day and age and it took a personal security guard to kill the terrorist is embarrassing

[SirBalon]

6 hours ago, Inverted said:

Whilst London carries on defiantly, privileged, right-wing leeches like Hopkins and Farage appear on Fox News, spreading lies about the nation being paralysed and beaten by terrorism. 

Anyone who reckons these clowns as patriots is woefully misguided. They are woefully out of touch, dishonest people, interested in nothing more than satisfying their own vanity. They have no sense of solidarity with their countrymen, no sense of shame about when and where to pursue their own agenda, and not an iota of human understanding or decency. 

Farage should have stuck to plodding away trading commodities like his daddy, and Hopkins should stick to shagging blokes in fields. It's bad enough that British media gives them so much airtime despite their complete lack of power or relevance to actual British life: now the psychotic conservative media in the states looks to them as reliable sources on what people think over here.

I live and was born in... London has changed massively.   I know of no go areas for various reasons and some of what Hopkins said is unfortunately correct while the emphasis she was pointing to was totally incorrect. 

[Pig on the Wing]

8 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

I didn't even read that tweet I was posting it for the tit in the picture. But now I've read that tweet it is equally cringe.

#PrayforMuamba

[SirBalon]

Found out one of the victims that were murdered is a woman born in Galicia...  I only say this because amazingly she was friends to people I know.

[Pig on the Wing]

5 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Pretty much 

I'm sorry the "it's a reaction to us bombing" doesn't stack up, why are Hindus being attacked in Bangladesh? Why are Philippines struggling with Islamic extremists? I don't remember phillipinos marching up the tigers. Why are Somalian Islamic extremists active in Kenya? I don't remember the Maasai storming Kandahar. China, India, Nigeria have terrorism are they western powers carpet bombing? It's just such a bull shit argument it really is. 

Granted western meddling has exacerbated the situation but it was a problem before we got involved and it's a problem in places you can't attribute to us.  As soon as we let Islam get a toe hold it was coming no matter what. Whoa. 'We' and 'them' already - who the fuck gives 'us' the right to have a stranglehold over anyone else, any other ideology? This is a classic western white-boy superiority complex - why should any ideology have the power over another that 'lets another have a toe hold'? It's been going on pretty much since word go, Afghan was Buddhist, Pakistan was Hindu, many others were a collection of faiths. I'm sure they sat there then saying "ah it's not all Muslims" look at them now. 

'We' have been meddling with other cultures since the 17th Century. British people have exploited, crippled and oppressed cultures throughout our history. Luckily for us, we did it before the advent of mass, popular and social media. The entire concept of other cultures' mistrust of British interference has been grown over 300 years of colonialism. As the rich white man, we have done this before and continue to do so. Even with Syria, we just can't help but get involved, when clearly, all our need to be included in some good old brownie-bashing has done is breed yet more freedom fighters/terrorists who want to fight back.

Nobody is disputing that it's not all Muslims, it's a greater portion than the 1-5% banded about though. Numbers. 1.5 billion Muslims in the world - 5% of this equals 75 million lunatics who want to bomb everything to do with the Western world. So many agree with the installation of Sharia or punishment by Death for those who insult Islam that it's a significant problem. I noticed that cretin 666 likes your post. His own ancestors probably said what you have before they were forced to convert or get butchered. Sounds like the Crusades, that. You're dangerously close to spouting the same outdated shite that Britain First do when they're talking about being overcome by the massive waves of Muslamics with Rayguns coming to take over Glorious Blighty. The day that Sharia Law comes to affect me, or you, our families, or anyone who is outside of Islamic religious 'law', is the day I will plait Anjem Choudhary's fresh steaming shit on top of Nelson's Column. Don't believe in Sharia Law, or Islam? Great, me neither. It doesn't apply to you. The 'threat' of Sharia Law is the biggest myth people buy into because, granted, it's a scary concept, but it is completely fucking unenforceable in the legal systems of this country.

Put simply they outbreed us, they've got a culture of marriage from back home which means immigration continues apace. What about the married British migrants who take over the south-eastern coast of Spain? Why is that type of immigration dissimilar to Asian families moving to Bradford or Leicester or the northern ex-mill towns? Or is that OK because they're white? When they become dominant in a area they vote for their own (just look at local elections in London, Muslims take control of councils as they virtually block vote) and then that area starts to focus on pro Muslim moves like new mosques and schools. Other faiths and it's followers can expect intimidation and pressure to convert. When was the last time a Christian group was refused permission to build a new church? It doesn't happen, because, a) Christianity is on its arse in the UK, and b) local authorities generally have nothing against religious organisations congregating, so long as their proposals meet all building laws. You know, like any other business development proposal. Again it's not all but in any situation it's the fucker with a weapon calling the shots. As much as we've advanced as a species the laws of the jungle still apply, the strong rule the weak don't. Whoa, whoa, whoa. What weapon? Who is the strong here, and on what basis do you make that claim? Surely all of the 'power' you speak of is held by the massive majority of white British PMs in this country, who are funded by the wealth of the massive majority of white British upper-middle class, such as Arron Banks. Just because a local group of Sunnis have got planning permission for a new teaching centre in Rusholme, it doesn't mean they actually wield any power over anyone.

I really do despair with you lot on this topic, it's ground hog day after every attack. The same old  "it's our fault for the gulf war crap". The 1400 year old history of Islam is there to read, it's been a constant aggressive march and it won't stop. It's not about racial traits it's about an ideology specifically designed to overcome and suppress opposing ideology. All religions have been guilty of this bullshit at some stage - it is the cancer that comes with any form of organised religion differntiating a group of 'believers' from 'non-believers'. How many atrocities have been fought in the name of Christianity? the Inquisition, the Crusades, the Huguenots, Cromwell's genocide of the Catholics. All religion preaches love for its fellow worshippers, but I'll be staggered if there's a religion out there that doesn't at least question the ideals of those who do not follow the religion - that is how religions justify themselves!! In your statement above, you label about 1/5th of the human population as intolerant people simply because of their beliefs - does that not make you even more intolerant?

I know many of you just dismiss me as some sort of racist or bigot because of my view on Islam but the reality is if we don't do something our grandchildren or great grandchildren will have to fight this. We have huge social problems with the community, it's suppressed or apologised for because of the fear we appear racist. It isn't that, it's just that it comes across as misguided - and even more annoying is when this particular group becomes scapegoated by the 'indigenous Brits' (fuck me with a sledgehammer if that's not the most bullshit term you'll ever hear) for everything that is wrong with our lives in this country. 'Ooh, the muzzers are all bad and it's their fault for absolutely everything' - fuck that, it's lazy at absolute best.

I'll say it one more time. Islam is an ideology that isn't racially specific. It's impossible to be racist because it encompasses people of all races. That's an argument used by people who (very correctly) note that 'religionist' isn't a word.

Therefore like all ideologies it should be open to skepticism and judgement. The verdict is in, it's fucking filth, always has and always will be. See: Western colonialist oppression. We're the descendants of that successful (yet vile) ideology. Am I 'filth'? Are you?

 

 

[Toony]

8 hours ago, Tanksie said:

 

Whats the point of having a bunch of cops cruising about when they are equipped to do fuck all? What are they going to do if they are on site for another attack? Get stabbed some more?

 

The fact that English police are unarmed in this day and age and it took a personal security guard to kill the terrorist is embarrassing

 

Very true, you'd think now they'd learn the lesson that they all need to be armed, particularly in those big cities that are likely to be targeted. 

It's just a shame it takes an event like this to happen before they learn.

[Honey Honey]

Police wear stab proof vests and are routinely trained in self defence from knife attacks. The way people talk you'd think they're sitting ducks like civilians.

There are armed police around parliament and in the entrance lobby of the building for moments when there is an gun attack.

Why make an immediate assumption that every officer must have the most lethal form of weapon because of a knife attack and not question why the officer did not have numerous other appropriate alternatives such as a truncheon or taser.

Its a completely stupid leap to say every copper needs to be armed to the teeth. It is perfectly acceptable to have varying degrees of officer, 1 Islamist with a knife is hardly reason to turn the entirety of the Police into a militia. Just because he was shot by Fallon's bodyguards in an empty courtyard does not mean he would not have come across armed police further down the path.

[Toony]

If that officer that was killed was armed, the chances are he'd still be alive. That's a big enough argument for me.

[SirBalon]

Our police officers on the whole have never needed firearms throughout its entire history.

Why do we need them to have firearms now?

This is another example of why many things that are being said are unfortunately accurate and what Hopkins said has various truths to it.  We don't have to bury our heads in the sand and ignore how things have become pretty ugly.

[Fairy In Boots]

7 hours ago, StefBWFC said:

Whoa. 'We' and 'them' already - who the fuck gives 'us' the right to have a stranglehold over anyone else, any other ideology? This is a classic western white-boy superiority complex - why should any ideology have the power over another that 'lets another have a toe hold.

We & them is just lazy description on my part. And regarding a stranglehold nothing gives us a right to have a stranglehold but a sad fact of life is the strong bully the weak. You think the story would be different if we were on the opposing side? 

7 hours ago, StefBWFC said:

'We' have been meddling with other cultures since the 17th Century. British people have exploited, crippled and oppressed cultures throughout our history. Luckily for us, we did it before the advent of mass, popular and social media. The entire concept of other cultures' mistrust of British interference has been grown over 300 years of colonialism. As the rich white man, we have done this before and continue to do so. Even with Syria, we just can't help but get involved, when clearly, all our need to be included in some good old brownie-bashing has done is breed yet more freedom fighters/terrorists who want to fight back.

This struggle goes way beyond the 17th century and the British empire. The caliphate had invaded Spain, parts of Eastern Europe and iradidicated Anatolia and North Africa way before that. The Barbary slave trade in which 1 million European slaves was before that. They had invaded southern France in the 8th century for Christ sake. 

If you want to talk about oppression of cultures fine, Britain is certainly guilty of it but how that negates an ideology that once in power has committed numerous genocides I don't know. 

I notice you didn't answer my question regarding what had Kenya done? Do you know after Israel over the last 10 years attacks per capita Thailand was the next most attacked place? Is it because the Thai's have been oppressing for 300 years? 

7 hours ago, StefBWFC said:

en was the last time a Christian group was refused permission to build a new church? It doesn't happen, because, a) Christianity is on its arse in the UK, and b) local authorities generally have nothing against religious organisations congregating, so long as their proposals meet all building laws. You know, like any other business development proposal. 

I was describing a situation where Islam was the dominant religion. It's not in the uk hence it hasn't happened here yet. It will if the do become the dominant force, for examples look at the suppression and arguable genocide of the Coptic Christian faith currently taking place. But there's many more examples of Islam just annihilating smaller faiths. Forced conversion of Jews in Yemen orNestorian Christians in Persia. 

Our laws protect us, I get that but when we're (non Muslims) no longer the political power what's to stop laws passing? Nothing mate democracy is a numbers game. 

7 hours ago, StefBWFC said:

Whoa, whoa, whoa. What weapon? Who is the strong here, and on what basis do you make that claim? Surely all of the 'power' you speak of is held by the massive majority of white British PMs in this country, who are funded by the wealth of the massive majority of white British upper-middle class, such as Arron Banks. Just because a local group of Sunnis have got planning permission for a new teaching centre in Rusholme, it doesn't mean they actually wield any power over anyone. 

The weapon was just a figure of speech.Of course currently white mp's prevail in the UK, we're the majority. All reason goes out the window when things get violent after all. Through time that majority will be eroded and power will shift along with it. Look at some of the wealthy who've arrived here years ago, they have influence. Again democracy is a numbers game and when you have a significant Muslim vote you get pandering to court the vote. Take the last general election where Labour in Birmingham allowed segregation of women at meetings while Hartman drove round the country in a pink bus promoting "girl power". When we no longer hold the power we'll get a raw deal, just look at dhimmi tax in Muslim countries now, you think we'll be any different eventually? 

 

7 hours ago, StefBWFC said:

All religions have been guilty of this bullshit at some stage - it is the cancer that comes with any form of organised religion differntiating a group of 'believers' from 'non-believers'. How many atrocities have been fought in the name of Christianity? the Inquisition, the Crusades, the Huguenots, Cromwell's genocide of the Catholics. All religion preaches love for its fellow worshippers, but I'll be staggered if there's a religion out there that doesn't at least question the ideals of those who do not follow the religion - that is how religions justify themselves!! In your statement above, you label about 1/5th of the human population as intolerant people simply because of their beliefs - does that not make you even more intolerant?

 

Ha I guess you didn't see the vast majority of this topic on the last forum because my ground hog day comment is so apt.  Nobody is denying that other religions aren't perfect either. It's a great subversive tactic used by those who just want to defend Islam. Islam is a different kettle of fish, it has a built in political system which you're aware of called Sharia. I described it last time as Judaism was world control 1.0, Christianity was 2.0 & Islam came along as 3.0 the final upgrade it governs every aspect of your life. A complete solution, I dislike Islam massively it terrifies me, but I also respect Islam for the ruthlessly efficient thing it is. 

 

7 hours ago, StefBWFC said:

It isn't that, it's just that it comes across as misguided - and even more annoying is when this particular group becomes scapegoated by the 'indigenous Brits' (fuck me with a sledgehammer if that's not the most bullshit term you'll ever hear) for everything that is wrong with our lives in this country. 'Ooh, the muzzers are all bad and it's their fault for absolutely everything' - fuck that, it's lazy at absolute best.

I'm talking in general terms to the collective membership here. You may have guessed by now I have previous on this topic, I've been called a fair few things for my opinions and after Paris I was rather angry and suggested that "they'd be better off dead" this was half anger / half to cause offence to a few individuals here. Some haven't forgotten that and for some reason on a Internet forum we're held to a higher standard that some politicians. 

About 4-5 years ago I started researching about Islam and the more I researched the more I'm horrified. What horrifies me more is the point blank refusal of those to look at what I'm saying, all incidents and facts I've posted are easily researchable. When I post facts or statistics it's often ignored, and the greatest counter argument seems to be "we're bombing them" or "Christianity did it to" neither of which negate the fact we have a problem. 

I'm not EDL,  I'm not Britain First, I freely admit there's some awfully good Muslims out there. I have daily interactions with them, but there's a huge problem we face. It's often not talked about or dismissed as racism and the problem gets played down & ignored. I like many others get frustrated with this because we can see what's coming. I have an Iranian friend who's secular nowadays he tells me that if he had his chance to leave Iran again he wouldn't come to Europe because it's on the same road Iran was before the revolution. I've said it before the constant dismissals are what's leading folk into the arms of the far right. 

I wont answer the bit about filth I've covered western oppression earlier and I'm speaking about the doctrine being filth not the people. I think your average Muslim who believes is just a brainwashed idiot it's the doctrine that's the real problem. 

[Honey Honey]

The police themselves don't want to be armed, they want tasers, that's what the met surveys show.

There's an argument to be made for an armed officer to be at the gate and that will happen, but to give everyone guns over a knife attack is total hysteria and ignores all other knife incidents involving the Police and the evidence around it.

In terms of parliament the failure is not that every officer doesn't have a gun but that every primary point wasn't covered by an armed officer. 

[Dave]

12 hours ago, Tanksie said:

 

Whats the point of having a bunch of cops cruising about when they are equipped to do fuck all? What are they going to do if they are on site for another attack? Get stabbed some more?

 

The fact that English police are unarmed in this day and age and it took a personal security guard to kill the terrorist is embarrassing

My personal feeling is if all Police are given firearms then gun crime will increase as the clientele desperate to maintain a 'badman' image will naturally arm themselves with more violent weapons.

A taser on the hand is a complete different story. I know the cartoledges are expensive and there are stated cases where people with medical illnesses unknown at the time have passed away but with the World we live in and the effectiveness they've previously shown I would like to think that giving competent Police Officers with more than three years service that work within roles where they regularly respond to 999 calls or guard buildings of interests is something we're aiming towards.

[Honey Honey]

There is also an argument to be had that turning the Police into a militia is Orwellian and an impeachment on liberty.

[Panna King]

So the terrorist, was living with and around Anjem Choudary in 2013

[Burning Gold]

3 hours ago, Toony said:

If that officer that was killed was armed, the chances are he'd still be alive. That's a big enough argument for me.

Not necessarily. It takes a surprisingly long time to draw, aim, and fire a weapon when there's a man charging at you with a knife

Skip to about 1:26

 

1 hour ago, Aaroncpfc said:

My personal feeling is if all Police are given firearms then gun crime will increase as the clientele desperate to maintain a 'badman' image will naturally arm themselves with more violent weapons.

A taser on the hand is a complete different story. I know the cartoledges are expensive and there are stated cases where people with medical illnesses unknown at the time have passed away but with the World we live in and the effectiveness they've previously shown I would like to think that giving competent Police Officers with more than three years service that work within roles where they regularly respond to 999 calls or guard buildings of interests is something we're aiming towards.

It's also a very effective way to get more police shootings. Give the officer a gun and all of a sudden his thought process when someone's resisting arrest becomes "What if he's going for my gun? My life could be at stake here"

[Pig on the Wing]

5 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

There is also an argument to be had that turning the Police into a militia is Orwellian and an impeachment on liberty.

But it's ok because they'll stop the scary muslamics taking over!!!111

[Panna King]

The policeman was attacked at the gate of Parliament due to him serving in the Army served twice in Afghanistan, he was obviously the target. 

[Toony]

1 minute ago, VanPanna said:

The policeman was attacked at the gate of Parliament due to him serving in the Army served twice in Afghanistan, he was obviously the target. 

What's your source for that?