Could it finally be Liverpool's year?

[LFCMike]

To suggest there's no pressure to win things at Liverpool is ridiculous. We're not fucking Burnley or Fulham. If anything, the pressure is greater than ever. We're on our worst trophy drought since before Shankly arrived. As @DeadLinesman said, it doesn't necessarily mean Klopp is under pressure to lose his job. 

[LFCMadLad]

3 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

You do realise the TV revenue came in after Klopp? Meaning you in fact could spend millions and it’s not only because of ‘financial management’. It’s a bonus, but got fuck all to do with the football. If you’re such a massively profitable football club like you claim, then surely you can afford it just like the Uniteds of this world? (Please don’t lump us in with oil money where the margins have no meaning).

Seems you’re not allowed to have another opinion without being in a mood. Why would United and Everton fans be want him to be hung? Bit of a bizarre rant. Again, you can be under pressure to win and still have a secure job. 

It wasn't a rant mate and I'm not lumping you in with oil clubs either. It's just that Utd undeniably have more money to spend than almost every other club on the planet, through profit alone. 

Anyway, I reckon this has been done enough. Let's just see how much pressure Klopp comes under in the coming seasons. 

[SirBalon]

The thing is that @LFCMadLad has been trying to make it look like because he and practically all Liverpool fans like Klopp that for this reason he should keep his job without any targets set.  What a wonderful position to be in where you tell a few jokes at press conferences and of course get your team to play really exciting attacking football and this is enough to hand yourself an eternal well paid job.  It's as if Tommy Cooper turned football coach and was working for Liverpool!

The thing is that he then works out the spending maths to take even any inkling of pressure on Klopp!

So by qualifying for the Champions League every season that's enough?

No way mate... Not a chance! Because even if the owners are ok with that scenario (it's not unheard of for that to be the case at some clubs ), there will come a time when the fans will ask what's all this about.

[LFCMadLad]

1 minute ago, LFCMike said:

To suggest there's no pressure to win things at Liverpool is ridiculous. We're not fucking Burnley or Fulham. If anything, the pressure is greater than ever. We're on our worst trophy drought since before Shankly arrived. As @DeadLinesman said, it doesn't necessarily mean Klopp is under pressure to lose his job. 

Where is the pressure coming from then? He's only not under pressure because he's doing well. Nobody said we are Burnley or Fulham. We have just qualified for the CL consecutively for the first time in yonks, as well as playing in 3 finals. Do you actually think if we don't reach the CL final and finish second in the league, Klopp will be under pressure? I don't. 

Of course there is pressure for Klopp to do well, he's the manager of LFC for Christ sake.

I'm just rebutting the claims that he's under pressure to win things now, or even next season. Pressure comes from primarily the fans, then the media and then the owners. I'm not saying he's got a free ride here but to suggest Klopp should be under pressure taking into account what he's done for the club so far is comical. 

Currently Klopp is under pressure from none of the above and I can't see that changing anytime soon. 

[LFCMadLad]

5 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

The thing is that @LFCMadLad has been trying to make it look like because he and practically all Liverpool fans like Klopp that for this reason he should keep his job without any targets set.  What a wonderful position to be in where you tell a few jokes at press conferences and of course get your team to play really exciting attacking football and this is enough to hand yourself an eternal well paid job.  It's as if Tommy Cooper turned football coach and was working for Liverpool!

The thing is that he then works out the spending maths to take even any inkling of pressure on Klopp!

So by qualifying for the Chanpions League every season that's enough?

No way mate... Not a chance! Because even if the owners are ok with that scenario (it's not unheard of for that to be the case at some clubs ), there will come a time when the fans will ask what's all this about.

Fuck me, anyone would think Klopp is failing 

Ok I'm out, this has been done enough.

Let's just see how much pressure Klopp comes under....

My guess is probably Alan Shearer and Gary Lineker might have a pop on match of the day, but other than that, I reckon Klopp might be ok.

[SirBalon]

1 minute ago, LFCMadLad said:

Fuck me, anyone would think Klopp is failing 

Ok I'm out, this has been done enough.

Let's just see how much pressure Klopp comes under....

My guess is probably Alan Shearer and Gary Lineker might have a pop but other than that, I reckon Klopp might be ok.

Like I said at the beginning mate, Klopp HAS to be under pressure to better his previous season at least in the Premier League.  Obviously reaching the Champions League Final is a feat and is based on luck as well as merits for any team.  But the bread and butter by what you're measured is the league which is why I said that anything other than 2nd place would be a disappointing season unless you raise that by winning a cup (League Cup not accepted as winning a trophy!  Got to set some rules).

[LFCMadLad]

Just now, SirBalon said:

Like I said at the beginning mate, Klopp HAS to be under pressure to better his previous season at least in the Premier League.  Obviously reaching the Champions League Final is a feat and is based on luck as well as merits for any team.  But the bread and butter by what you're measured is the league which is why I said that anything other than 2nd place would be a disappointing season unless you raise that by winning a cup (League Cup not accepted as winning a trophy!  Got to set some rules).

Agreed, but if we finish behind City and Chelsea in third then I'm sure there will be nobody calling for Klopps head. 

[SirBalon]

Just now, LFCMadLad said:

Agreed, but if we finish behind City and Chelsea in third then I'm sure there will be nobody calling for Klopps head. 

Also agree but if no cup comes with that then you also have to agree that that would be a disappointing season.

[LFCMadLad]

32 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Also agree but if no cup comes with that then you also have to agree that that would be a disappointing season.

Disappointing maybe mate, but I still don't think Klopp would come under massive amounts of pressure if that was the case. 

Maybe in a few seasons if we have stagnated then the pressure would come, but by that time Klopps contract will be almost up and he'll possibly be gone.

That's why I think Klopp has a very stable job. He's doing a cracking job, he's popular with everyone that matters and there's no immediate rush for the trophies to come rolling in due to circumstance e.g. City etc.

Just my opinion of course. I could obviously be wrong and our owners be actually baying for blood, looking to get him out at the first opportunity if the League or Champions League isn't won. 

[SirBalon]

20 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Disappointing maybe mate, but I still don't think Klopp would come under massive amounts of pressure if that was the case. 

Maybe in a few seasons if we have stagnated then the pressure would come, but by that time Klopps contract will be almost up and he'll possibly be gone.

That's why I think Klopp has a very stable job. He's doing a cracking job, he's popular with everyone that matters and there's no immediate rush for the trophies to come rolling in due to circumstance e.g. City etc.

Just my opinion of course. I could obviously be wrong and our owners be actually baying for blood, looking to get him out at the first opportunity if the League or Champions League isn't won. 

Nobody has ever spoken about getting fired with this mate, at least not in the short term.  Pressure doesn't automatically mean being dismissed but there has to be pressure for all sorts of reasons and the main one being ambition which drives betterment.

I'm pretty definite that Jürgen Klopp himself is driving this project in the attempt to put Liverpool back on top and win things, important things.  Infact I would be as bold to say that on contrast to what Manchester City are searching for which is the Champions League so as to feed their owner's search for legitimacy (a whole different story)... Liverpool want to win the Premier League, be the Champions of England after so many many years.

Let me give you an anecdote... When we (Arsenal) beat you guys at Anfield in 1989 with that final minute Michael Thomas goal I remember going mental with thousands of Arsenal fans outside Highbury (we filled the streets)... A friend of mine who was a Liverpool fan and was with us that day (we'd watched the game at my house on tv) said to me this..."At least I know we won't have to wait 18 years for our next league title" (18 years being how long Arsenal had to wait for their next title), such was the aura surrounding the power of Liverpool Football Club back then.  Without a doubt I believed that and I would say most fans would've concurred with that statement.  27 year on and we have this...  Winning that league is the ONLY acceptable stepping stone in regards to consecrating a return, not even most club's holy grail of the Champions League would do which I'm sure you would agree in that particular sense.

[Bluewolf]

On 16/09/2018 at 11:37, RandoEFC said:

Klopp has done the first half of his job better than anyone else could have in putting all the building blocks in place. Even if he can't turn it into a major trophy, that buys him time. 

If he wins nothing with this team he can still be criticised for that without it being unfair but his job shouldn't come under pressure because his overall job has still been a success.

Only if Liverpool stagnate for multiple seasons and win nothing should his position be questioned.

One thing to note though is that just because Liverpool were 6th best team or so when he took over doesn't mean he's massively punching above his weight. The size of that club, infrastructure, resources etc. are only bettered in this country by Man Utd (over time) and Man City (in recent years). Liverpool should be title contenders or at least constant top four finishers. What Klopp has done is not to take Liverpool above their actual level, but rather restore them to the position they should be in after years of poor management and underachieving. Not that that takes away from the job he's done but a lot of people perceive Liverpool as underdogs and overachievers under Klopp whereas I can't believe people actually think they should be competing with or below the likes of Arsenal and Tottenham.

Those two points cover it for me... 

Klopp has done well to get Liverpool back to where they should be or should I say have been in the past and in that regard he has done a very good job for the club and the fans.. I don't really see anyone complaining about how Liverpool are performing on the pitch and the style of attacking play he instilled in that side has been a pleasure to watch at times... It's only natural that investment in the squad is ongoing, regardless if it's a 70Mill investment or a 25Mill one, keeping players hungry and driven to succeed while weeding out weakness is every managers/coaches focus for their side.. I think in that regard Klopp is probably not under a lot of pressure currently compared to Mourinho at United for example.. 

If of course he goes the way of Wenger as another example then all the fancy football in the world won't mean bugger all if you don't have what it takes to win Silverware periodically and the longer Liverpool go without winning anything the greater the pressure applied.. With Wenger the club were happy to keep getting in the top 4 regardless if it was only 4th and to keep being in and around where the money was like the CL but over time that strong squad he used to command got slowly weaker and weaker until even top 4 was looking unrealistic and we all know the crap Wenger used to get for that... 

At the moment the club are probably happy to see them doing well and competing for a top 3 slot but not sure if they are going to be long term happy with that situation if no Silverware is forthcoming?? The need for Silverware tends to be more a fan thing than a club one, When push comes to shove most clubs are normally happy being as successful as they need to be to keep that income flowing but given the continued investment and expectation it might just be a question of time before Silverware becomes the expectation rather than a wonderful bonus... 

Personally I would take a punt on them being right there at the end of the season... 

[LFCMadLad]

21 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Nobody has ever spoken about getting fired with this mate, at least not in the short term.  Pressure doesn't automatically mean being dismissed but there has to be pressure for all sorts of reasons and the main one being ambition which drives betterment.

I'm pretty definite that Jürgen Klopp himself is driving this project in the attempt to put Liverpool back on top and win things, important things.  Infact I would be as bold to say that on contrast to what Manchester City are searching for which is the Champions League so as to feed their owner's search for legitimacy (a whole different story)... Liverpool want to win the Premier League, be the Champions of England after so many many years.

Let me give you an anecdote... When we (Arsenal) beat you guys at Anfield in 1989 with that final minute Michael Thomas goal I remember going mental with thousands of Arsenal fans outside Highbury (we filled the streets)... A friend of mine who was a Liverpool fan and was with us that day (we'd watched the game at my house on tv) said to me this..."At least I know we won't have to wait 18 years for our next league title" (18 years being how long Arsenal had to wait for their next title), such was the aura surrounding the power of Liverpool Football Club back then.  Without a doubt I believed that and I would say most fans would've concurred with that statement.  27 year on and we have this...  Winning that league is the ONLY acceptable stepping stone in regards to consecrating a return, not even most club's holy grail of the Champions League would do which I'm sure you would agree in that particular sense.

Totally agree pal, and don't misunderstand my patience over my absolute longing for us to win the league! 

I'm dying for us to win it! On the flip side though, at the moment, I'm just grateful we are getting back to being relevant again 

If the trophies come then fantastic, if they don't well... It's not the end of the World. 

[LFCMadLad]

26 minutes ago, Bluewolf said:

Those two points cover it for me... 

Klopp has done well to get Liverpool back to where they should be or should I say have been in the past and in that regard he has done a very good job for the club and the fans.. I don't really see anyone complaining about how Liverpool are performing on the pitch and the style of attacking play he instilled in that side has been a pleasure to watch at times... It's only natural that investment in the squad is ongoing, regardless if it's a 70Mill investment or a 25Mill one, keeping players hungry and driven to succeed while weeding out weakness is every managers/coaches focus for their side.. I think in that regard Klopp is probably not under a lot of pressure currently compared to Mourinho at United for example.. 

If of course he goes the way of Wenger as another example then all the fancy football in the world won't mean bugger all if you don't have what it takes to win Silverware periodically and the longer Liverpool go without winning anything the greater the pressure applied.. With Wenger the club were happy to keep getting in the top 4 regardless if it was only 4th and to keep being in and around where the money was like the CL but over time that strong squad he used to command got slowly weaker and weaker until even top 4 was looking unrealistic and we all know the crap Wenger used to get for that... 

At the moment the club are probably happy to see them doing well and competing for a top 3 slot but not sure if they are going to be long term happy with that situation if no Silverware is forthcoming?? The need for Silverware tends to be more a fan thing than a cub one, When push comes to shove most clubs are normally happy being as successful as they need to be to keep that income flowing but given the continued investment and expectation it might just be a question of time before Silverware becomes the expectation rather than a wonderful bonus... 

Personally I would take a punt on them being right there at the end of the season... 

Fantastic post!

[Rick]

Of course he's under pressure. He's the manager of Liverpool Football Club, pressure comes with the bloody job. He's spent a lot in the last couple of years, and our squad is fantastic. We should be challenging on all fronts this season without a doubt, and although he won't lose his job anytime soon, he is definitely under a lot of pressure to deliver trophies. 

[LFCMadLad]

6 minutes ago, Rick said:

 We should be challenging on all fronts this season without a doubt, and although he won't lose his job anytime soon, he is definitely under a lot of pressure to deliver trophies. 

So what happens if he doesn't deliver a trophy this season, or next? 

 

[LFCMike]

2 hours ago, LFCMadLad said:

Where is the pressure coming from then? He's only not under pressure because he's doing well. Nobody said we are Burnley or Fulham. We have just qualified for the CL consecutively for the first time in yonks, as well as playing in 3 finals. Do you actually think if we don't reach the CL final and finish second in the league, Klopp will be under pressure? I don't. 

Of course there is pressure for Klopp to do well, he's the manager of LFC for Christ sake.

I'm just rebutting the claims that he's under pressure to win things now, or even next season. Pressure comes from primarily the fans, then the media and then the owners. I'm not saying he's got a free ride here but to suggest Klopp should be under pressure taking into account what he's done for the club so far is comical. 

Currently Klopp is under pressure from none of the above and I can't see that changing anytime soon. 

The pressure increases as expectations do. As it stands, expectations have increased dramatically from this time last year. People are now expecting a title challenge and good runs in Europe. 

There's so many difference scenarios on what would be a good or bad season so no I don't think he'll be under pressure if we don't finish second or reach a Champions League final.

Things can change quickly in football in terms of pressure though. From the fans especially. I remember Benitez being under pressure from sections of our fanbase 6 months after taking us to our second European Cup final in the space of three years

4 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

So what happens if he doesn't deliver a trophy this season, or next? 

 

Whether he's under pressure or not depends on how close we've been to a trophy doesn't it? 

[LFCMadLad]

9 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

 

There's so many difference scenarios on what would be a good or bad season so no I don't think he'll be under pressure if we don't finish second or reach a Champions League final.

That's exactly what I've been saying mate!

Glad someone agrees 

[SirBalon]

I'm glad that understanding pressure has been understood now.  No matter how much you like someone, unfortunately the world of football at the top end is about achievements and Klopp has done extremely well which means the bar is constantly raised for him.

[LFCMike]

23 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

That's exactly what I've been saying mate!

Glad someone agrees 

Of course the pressure in terms of his job depends on what sort of seasons we have over the next couple of years. It would have to go very wrong for his job to be called into question I think. But there's still pressure there for us to take the next step by winning something and putting up a meaningful title challenge

[LFCMadLad]

24 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

I'm glad that understanding pressure has been understood now.  No matter how much you like someone, unfortunately the world of football at the top end is about achievements and Klopp has done extremely well which means the bar is constantly raised for him.

If in 2 years Klopp hasn't won a thing with Liverpool and retires..  the fans will still love him and look back on his time here as one of success. He's brought the fans and the club back together again, that's the main thing!

[Cicero]

Every season, there is that one game where at the end of it, the fans start to genuinely believe they will win the title. 

For us in 2016/17, it was the 1-3 win against City at the Ethiad

Last season, I'm fairly certain City fans started to believe after they beat us 0-1 at the bridge. 

For Liverpool, they will get a better idea around the middle of October I reckon depending on their results against us and City. 

 

Right now, it really is too early to call anything. Those saying we are in more of a chance than Liverpool I feel are mistaken. We have had an easy run of fixtures so far, and our back line has yet to really be tested bar Arsenal. We still lack a proper goal scorer as well, although Hazard could change that. We are still in transition and from what I've seen so far, I'm adamant into thinking we can cement a 3rd place finish. 

[Asura]

The fans might still love him despite not winning anything, dont get me wrong I like Klopp too and I wanted him at Arsenal when he was available and replace Wenger but he went to Liverpool. 

But to suggest there is no pressure to win is laughable, he spent a decent amount of money and has a squad that can compete, he strengthened the key areas with Allison, VVD, Keita and Roberston. 

If I remember correctly he himself said in his very first interviews that he should will be winning something in the first 3 years or something. 

Liverpool should atleast get the second spot in the league like @SirBalon said and probably a domestic cup is what they should atleast be winning.

[RandoEFC+]

This season definitely isn't make or break but if Klopp were to leave Liverpool in three years time with a few more 2nd/3rd places and no trophies or say one League Cup you'd be hard pushed to spin that as a successful return overall. I think that's the middle ground we're looking for from this debate.

[SirBalon]

What I will say in effect to Klopp ever being considered (in the distant future) for the chop is that the Liverpool board would find it a difficult decision to make with the prelude for a very hard task to replace him. I say this because that team has been built with his vision on how to play the game.  You can't just replace a coach that easily when a team has been built around a way of playing the game.  Obviously this is without the fore knowledge of the future and what coaches will be available with a particular style in say three or four years time.

So what I'm saying is that the investment on players has been considered with the coach they have working for Liverpool in mind.

Klopp would seriously have to fail to get fired.

[Spike]

On 16/09/2018 at 15:16, Inverted said:

I think so long as the team keeps improving every year, why not? At a certain point, if you getting constantly better, you're probably going to win something.

Only three ways to improve on 4th.