Other News & General Chat

[Bluewolf]

10 minutes ago, Pyfish said:

It does seem highly convenient in both of those cases but I'd like to think somebody wouldn't stoop so low to do that? 

That's what they have PR teams for though isn't it to put their client across in the best possible light and limit damage... 

PR agencies, as opposed to advertising agencies, promote companies or individuals via editorial coverage.

PR agencies and advertising agencies share the same goals:  promoting clients and making them seem as successful, honest, important, exciting or relevant as possible.

[Pyfish+]

3 minutes ago, Bluewolf said:

That's what they have PR teams for though isn't it to put their client across in the best possible light and limit damage... 

PR agencies, as opposed to advertising agencies, promote companies or individuals via editorial coverage.

PR agencies and advertising agencies share the same goals:  promoting clients and making them seem as successful, honest, important, exciting or relevant as possible.

Very true. I can see why a lot of people on socials don't like Phillip.

[DeadLinesman]

12 minutes ago, Pyfish said:

Very true. I can see why a lot of people on socials don't like Phillip.

Bit harsh mate. I’m a really nice guy behind the scenes.

[Bluewolf]

3 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

Bit harsh mate. I’m a really nice guy behind the scenes.

Good PR there mate.... 

[Stan]

4 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

Bit harsh mate. I’m a really nice guy behind the scenes.

Speak for yourself. 

[Azeem]

1000 pages of documents declassified last week by CIA reveal that the Iranian coup of 1953 was arranged by CIA in order to install their man Raza Shah Pehlavi documents further reveal that the 1979 Islamic Revolution was a reaction against the 1953 coup.

Pretty much an open secret this but they have now finally accepted it.

[Azeem]

Ah man

[Pyfish+]

Caroline Flack has been found dead in her London home aged 40.

No official cause of death announced yet. Hoping this isn’t how it sounds with the negative press and social media berating she’s had of late. 

EDIT: Didn't see the thread about it before I posted this  

Edited February 17, 2020 by Pyfish

[Azeem]

US likely to sign the peace deal and exit strategy from Afghanistan at the end of this month in the presence of UN

[Dr. Gonzo]

@Panflute

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51457787

[Stan]

Duffy explains why she had to stop making music

 

That's so sad. 

[Panflute]

38 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

@Panflute

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51457787

Is it weird that my first thought was "I wonder if I've heard of his band..."? 

[The Artful Dodger]

When we stop calling these Indian events 'riots' and call them pogroms? When it targets a minority that people in the West care about?

Edited February 26, 2020 by The Artful Dodger

[IgnisExcubitor]

12 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

When we stop calling these Indian events 'riots' and call them pogroms? When it targets a minority that people in the West care about?

You are already doing that, on the back of the misinformation spread by foreign press.

On the ground the reality is far from different.

This is nothing more than a riot that has been instigated by ONE community which has now become victim in your eyes. 

For more than two months they have held parts of this country hostage with protests (some of which have been violent) over a law that doesn't even fucking affect a single Indian let alone a Muslim.

It all finally blew up this weekend. But what the foreign press won't report is this.

A tweet thread of 9 tweets  by defence expert Abhijit where he explains the chronology.

This was at the beginning of the riots. Look how brazen they are. This man Sharukh fired eight rounds at unarmed cops.

Gangs who unleashed violence.

 

While you will hear words like complicity of politicians, the foreign press won't highlight participation of Muslim politicians with Muslim mobs. This mob killed 4-5 Hindus, one of which was a 26 year old IB agent, Ankit Sharma. He was dragged from his house, lynched and thrown in drain. His friends are still missing.

This tweet thread by Rahul Pandita with videos show how a house belonging to a Muslim politician Tahir Hussain was used to throw stones and petrol bombs on Hindu houses.

Story also told by another journalist with witness testimony. And screengrab from the video showing the body being dumped. 

It was preplanned attack, as this was found by cops on the rooftop the next day. So much organisation.

Despite this huge evidence, WSJ today has actually dared to misquote Ankit's brother that his death was caused by Hindus. This despite the huge proof and his brother, mother and father and people from the area blaming Hussain and Muslim mobs. Such is the level of misinformation we are fighting against.

While foreign media will cover Muslim victims, they will not even show Hindu victims.

Here are few.

Or the a innocent man Vinod Kumar who was lynched to death and his son beaten up by a crowd chanting Allah u Akhbar.

 

Do you wanna know how propaganda works.

Here is an old woman. In the video on the left she admits to getting injured after falling in the drain while throwing brick at the cops. People around her even laughing.

In the video on the right, she is bandaged and presented as a victim of police brutality. Poor Muslim victim indeed.

 

And here's the leading left wing online site spreading propaganda or rather whitewashing crimes of Muslim mobs.

 

Such is the level of misinformation. Or to be brutally honest - whitewashing of crimes of ONE community.

I have loads of other videos and pictures and names of Hindu victims to show.

I have incidents like Khambhat in Gujrat where Muslims mobs burned down Hindu homes in Hindu localities or from Bhainsa in Telegana where Muslim mobs burned down Hindu homes. These incidents happened in the past few days, but they don't get talked about because narrative has to only be about Muslims being victims.

In reality what happened in Delhi are riots. They were instigated by one community. You can argue about the police ineptitude in controlling them from start or the politicians deliberately allowing them to fester because a divided society helps them in the longer run. But do NOT fucking call it a pogram or whitewash the crimes of the Muslim community. 

Edited February 27, 2020 by IgnisExcubitor

[The Artful Dodger]

28 minutes ago, IgnisExcubitor said:

You are already doing that, on the back of the misinformation spread by foreign press.

On the ground the reality is far from different.

This is nothing more than a riot that has been instigated by ONE community which has now become victim in your eyes. 

For more than two months they have held parts of this country hostage with protests (some of which have been violent) over a law that doesn't even fucking affect a single Indian let alone a Muslim.

It all finally blew up this weekend. But what the foreign press won't report is this.

A tweet thread of 9 tweets  by defence expert Abhijit where he explains the chronology.

This was at the beginning of the riots. Look how brazen they are. This man Sharukh fired eight rounds at unarmed cops.

Gangs who unleashed violence.

 

While you will hear words like complicity of politicians, the foreign press won't highlight participation of Muslim politicians with Muslim mobs. This mob killed 4-5 Hindus, one of which was a 26 year old IB agent, Ankit Sharma. He was dragged from his house, lynched and thrown in drain. His friends are still missing.

This tweet thread by Rahul Pandita with videos show how a house belonging to a Muslim politician Tahir Hussain was used to throw stones and petrol bombs on Hindu houses.

Story also told by another journalist with witness testimony. And screengrab from the video showing the body being dumped. 

It was preplanned attack, as this was found by cops on the rooftop the next day. So much organisation.

Despite this huge evidence, WSJ today has actually dared to misquote Ankit's brother that his death was caused by Hindus. This despite the huge proof and his brother, mother and father and people from the area blaming Hussain and Muslim mobs. Such is the level of misinformation we are fighting against.

While foreign media will cover Muslim victims, they will not even show Hindu victims.

Here are few.

Or the a innocent man Vinod Kumar who was lynched to death and his son beaten up by a crowd chanting Allah u Akhbar.

 

Do you wanna know how propaganda works.

Here is an old woman. In the video on the left she admits to getting injured after falling in the drain while throwing brick at the cops. People around her even laughing.

In the video on the right, she is bandaged and presented as a victim of police brutality. Poor Muslim victim indeed.

 

And here's the leading left wing online site spreading propaganda or rather whitewashing crimes of Muslim mobs.

 

Such is the level of misinformation. Or to be brutally honest - whitewashing of crimes of ONE community.

I have loads of other videos and pictures and names of Hindu victims to show.

I have incidents like Khambhat in Gujrat where Muslims mobs burned down Hindu homes in Hindu localities or from Bhainsa in Telegana where Muslim mobs burned down Hindu homes. These incidents happened in the past few days, but they don't get talked about because narrative has to only be about Muslims being victims.

In reality what happened in Delhi are riots. They were instigated by one community. You can argue about the police ineptitude in controlling them from start or the politicians deliberately allowing them to fester because a divided society helps them in the longer run. But do NOT fucking call it a pogram or whitewash the crimes of the Muslim community. 

I knew the Hindu extremist would be in immediately, I will certainly not take my news from a hateful bigot such as yourself. You can lie to yourself but I will take my news from more objective sources. Awful country led by a horrific person.

The fact you think the press here is pro-Muslims shows how utterly deluded you are, there's barely a mention of it.

Edited February 27, 2020 by The Artful Dodger

[IgnisExcubitor]

15 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

I knew the Hindu extremist would be in immediately, I will certainly not take my news from a hateful bigot such as yourself. You can lie to yourself but I will take my news from more objective sources. Awful country led by a horrific person.

The fact you think the press here is pro-Muslims shows how utterly deluded you are, there's barely a mention of it.

I have provided videos, pictures, names and proof. Some from even journalists. Hard proof.

Not only do you ignore them, as always, you react by throwing labels at anyone who thinks differently. That is how you argue. You always have.

You can't counter the facts. So as always you throw labels. Carry on.

Meanwhile more proof coming out this morning from journalists. A mob of 1000 Muslims torching school, houses and shops belonging to Hindus. They came armed with inflammable liquids as the subsequent tweets show.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by IgnisExcubitor

[The Artful Dodger]

16 minutes ago, IgnisExcubitor said:

I have provided videos, pictures, names and proof. Some from even journalists. Hard proof.

Not only do you ignore them, as always, you react by throwing labels at anyone who thinks differently. That is how you argue. You always have.

You can't counter the facts. So as always you throw labels. Carry on.

No, you've reacted like a child and thrown out a deluge of videos (which prove very little by the way, just saying 'this is a fact' does not prove anything). You're clearly very  emotional about this and therefore cannot be trusted, you're reaction shows you are only interested in spouting your odious leader's lines about Muslims. I have at no point said this is all Hindus fault, but the fact is there has been an alarming rise in exclusionary, Hindu nationalism. There are a lot of interesting commentators on this situation, with different backgrounds and ideas. I think you'll find, aside from the Pakistani/Indian divide, most can see this for what it is and see Modi as a vicious little man. 

India is going down a dark path, I hope you realise this before it's too late.

Really good article on the whole issue here (by an Indian writer) https://theprint.in/opinion/delhi-riots-neither-designed-by-modi-govt-nor-islamic-conspiracy-its-far-more-dangerous/371544/

Not that you'll be interested, you're just interested in propaganda. Unfortunately people like you are winning the war for our world, and we're much the worse off for it.

Edited February 27, 2020 by The Artful Dodger

[IgnisExcubitor]

43 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

No, you've reacted like a child and thrown out a deluge of videos (which prove very little by the way, just saying 'this is a fact' does not prove anything). You're clearly very  emotional about this and therefore cannot be trusted, you're reaction shows you are only interested in spouting your odious leader's lines about Muslims. I have at no point said this is all Hindus fault, but the fact is there has been an alarming rise in exclusionary, Hindu nationalism. There are a lot of interesting commentators on this situation, with different backgrounds and ideas. I think you'll find, aside from the Pakistani/Indian divide, most can see this for what it is and see Modi as a vicious little man. 

India is going down a dark path, I hope you realise this before it's too late.

Really good article on the whole issue here (by an Indian writer) https://theprint.in/opinion/delhi-riots-neither-designed-by-modi-govt-nor-islamic-conspiracy-its-far-more-dangerous/371544/

Not that you'll be interested, you're just interested in propaganda. Unfortunately people like you are winning the war for our world, and we're much the worse off for it.

 

You : This is a pogram against Muslims.

Me : Nope. This a riot. Here is the proof. Both sides responsible. Jerk Politicians allowed it to fester. But please blame both sides. Also, one side has been stupidly raging against a law that doesn't affect anyone. 

You: Shut up you bigot. Nationalist. It is what I said it is. Your country is horrible.

Me : Argue the points, don't throw labels. Don't whitewash one side's crime. 

You : I didn't say it was a pogram. I didn't blame Hindus. Also, your proof is shit. And you are a child (lovely more labels). 

 

On a serious note, only a non-Indian will say that we are heading towards a dark path. For such a diverse country, riots are a regular phenomenon. If anything their volume has substantially decreased in the past few years. As someone who has personally witnessed Mumbai riots, I have seen worse. That doesn't make what happened this week right or okay (before you twist my words). It was absolutely unacceptable and completely avoidable, if Politicians had acted back in December itself, instead of allowing it get worse.

I have no love for politicians. I have highlighted in my posts how politicians allowed this to fester to gain electorally. Karma will get them. However, when you don't acknowledge one side's crime, you actually help those very politicians. 

I also have a major problem when you blame my community, or make it seem like it's only my community's violence by implying that the other community is the sole victim. Let's be honest you did the latter - implied that only one community is the victim.

PS: Yogendra Yadav, whose article you posted, is one of the last you should rely on. Failed politician, failed psephologist and who was once caught on camera indulging in communal politics.

Edited February 27, 2020 by IgnisExcubitor

[The Artful Dodger]

17 minutes ago, IgnisExcubitor said:

 

You : This is a pogram against Muslims.

Me : Nope. This a riot. Here is the proof. Both sides responsible. Jerk Politicians allowed it to fester. But please blame both sides. Also, one side has been stupidly raging against a law that doesn't affect anyone. 

You: Shut up you bigot. Nationalist. It is what I said it is. Your country is horrible.

Me : Argue the points, don't throw labels. Don't whitewash one side's crime. 

You : I didn't say it was a pogram. I didn't blame Hindus. Also, your proof is shit. And you are a child (lovely more labels). 

 

On a serious note, only a non-Indian will say that we are heading towards a dark path. For such a diverse country, riots are a regular phenomenon. If anything their volume has substantially decreased in the past few years. As someone who has personally witnessed Mumbai riots, I have seen worse. That doesn't make what happened this week right or okay (before you twist my words). It was absolutely unacceptable and completely avoidable, if Politicians had acted back in December itself, instead of allowing it get worse. 

I have no love for politicians. I have highlighted in my posts how politicians allowed this to fester to gain electorally. Karma will get them. However, when you don't acknowledge one side's crime, you actually help those very politicians. 

I also have a major problem when you blame my community, or make it seem like it's only my community's violence by implying that the other community is the sole victim.

PS: Yogendra Yadav, whose article you posted, is one of the last you should rely on. Failed politician, failed psephologist and who was once caught on camera indulging in communal politics.

Sorry, putting up a load of videos are not evidence of anything, especially given your clear and obvious bias, to the point of hysteria.

I did say it was a pogrom and have never retracted that. Do me a favour and stop lying, more for your own sake as it undermines your credibility. I made perfectly clear that the nature of the violence is driven by hatred of Muslims and the Western press is clearly underplaying it (just like it barely reports on the treatment of the Uighur Muslims) you have reacted with an unprovoked tantrum and barely cogent arguments

The violence has clearly been instigated by the widespread anti-Muslim laws implemented in India, a reaction is to be expected. I have at no point said that there has been no violence from Muslims, however it is clear that the violence has moved beyond and that most neutral sources have highlighted the anti-Muslim nature of the violence now occurring. You clearly do not like this, but as has been much quoted, 'fact con't care about your feelings'. You have also implied the Western press is pro-Muslim, an accusation so blatantly false as to be absurd.

Also, thank you for revealing your bias further 'my community' etc. I don't care about you, who you are or anything about you. Stop trying to make this personal and asking for sympathy, it's pathetic and unbecoming of a grown man. 

Attempting, and failing, to undermine that well written and balanced article shows how far you've succumbed to fervent nationalism and religious hatred, it is sad.

Edited February 27, 2020 by The Artful Dodger

[Stan]

4 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Stop trying to make this personal and asking for sympathy, it's pathetic and unbecoming of a grown man. 

I don't think he's asked for sympathy? Just that there's been rioting from both sides and perhaps not as clear-cut as press would have it here. Think you made it personal calling him a hateful bigot?

I don't want to get in to the argument as I don't know what's been going on, the source of it, the progression of it or what it should be called. Not my place to do so when I'm not educated on it but at the end of the day, whichever side of the fence anyone sits on anyone can see all the rioting/wars/troubles are detrimental to all communities or nation. It serves absolutely no purpose and doesn't solve anything. Ever. 

[The Artful Dodger]

Just now, Stan said:

I don't think he's asked for sympathy? Just that there's been rioting from both sides and perhaps not as clear-cut as press would have it here. Think you made it personal calling him a hateful bigot?

I don't want to get in to the argument as I don't know what's been going on, the source of it, the progression of it or what it should be called. Not my place to do so when I'm not educated on it but at the end of the day, whichever side of the fence anyone sits on anyone can see all the rioting/wars/troubles are detrimental to all communities or nation. It serves absolutely no purpose and doesn't solve anything. Ever. 

I've encountered his agenda before, I stand by my comment. He has repeatedly and consistently blamed Muslims for everything and never once been critical of his own government. People like that are genuinely what I described him as. 

[IgnisExcubitor]

9 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Sorry, putting up a load of videos are not evidence of anything, especially given your clear and obvious bias, to the point of hysteria.

The violence has clearly been instigated by the widespread anti-Muslim laws implemented in India, a reaction is to be expected. I have at no point said that there has been no violence from Muslims, however it is clear that the violence has moved beyond and that most neutral sources have highlighted the anti-Muslim nature of the violence now occurring. You clearly do not like this, but as has been much quoted, 'fact con't care about your feelings'. You have also implied the Western press is pro-Muslim, an accusation so blatantly false as to be absurd.

Also, thank you for revealing your bias further 'my community' etc. I don't care about you, who you are or anything about you. Stop trying to make this personal and asking for sympathy, it's pathetic and unbecoming of a grown man. Argue with reason and logic.

Attempting to undermine anyone who disagrees with you with ad hominem shows is rather ironic given what you accuse me of, but it's to be expected.

I have presented logic and reason. The videos were mostly from journalists. They went on ground and investigated, by putting their livesin danger. How much more reason do you need? If you start opposing on-ground journalists with video and picture proof, then there is no point arguing with you.

 

I can even explain the so called anti-Muslim laws. There are none. The CAA law against which they are protesting only helps to give quicker citizenship to the refugees who have come to India before December 2014 to escape religious persecution in Islamic countries of Pakistan, Afghanistan and Bangladesh. This doesn't affect other refugees who can continue to seek citizenship. This law is NOT for any Indians.

The other law which they are protesting against is NRC. It hasn't even been fucking drafted yet. It will be drafted, argued upon in Parliament, modified several times, and voted upon in two houses of the Parliament and then approved by the President. Only then it will become a law, which will take months if not years. A law for national registry of Indians, to combat the massive illegal migration we face.

And I didn't attack you with labels. I have presented arguments with proof which you choose to ignore, and honestly that is okay. I no longer care. I just showed how you first called it a one sided pogram, and called me names (which you do always).

[Stan]

5 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

I've encountered his agenda before, I stand by my comment. He has repeatedly and consistently blamed Muslims for everything and never once been critical of his own government. People like that are genuinely what I described him as. 

That may be the case. But there's no denying there's culpability and provocation on both sides, no? It's not just Hindus rioting on Muslims or vice versa. It's both, combined. 

I do agree that foreign media (UK? US? Elsewhere?) is not pro-Muslim though. Especially not in the UK anyway. So far from it. 

[The Artful Dodger]

4 minutes ago, IgnisExcubitor said:

I have presented logic and reason. The videos were mostly from journalists. They went on ground and investigated, by putting their livesin danger. How much more reason do you need? If you start opposing on-ground journalists with video and picture proof, then there is no point arguing with you.

 

I can even explain the so called anti-Muslim laws. There are none. The CAA law against which they are protesting only helps to give quicker citizenship to the refugees who have come to India before December 2014 to escape religious persecution in Islamic countries of Pakistan, Afghanistan and Bangladesh. This doesn't affect other refugees who can continue to seek citizenship. This law is NOT for any Indians.

The other law which they are protesting against is NRC. It hasn't even been fucking drafted yet. It will be drafted, argued upon in Parliament, modified several times, and voted upon in two houses of the Parliament and then approved by the President. Only then it will become a law, which will take months if not years. A law for national registry of Indians, to combat the massive illegal migration we face.

And I didn't attack you with labels. I have presented arguments with proof which you choose to ignore, and honestly that is okay. I no longer care. I just showed how you first called it a one sided pogram, and called me names (which you do always).

Okay. So I made the comment that the situation is being underreported here, justified I think given the mainstream British presses history of underreporting crimes against minorities it is typically hostile to. You then gave me a barrage of videos (unverifiable may I add) blaming it all on Muslims and have then proceeded to undermine an article which is very balanced with ad hominem against the author. I give people the benefit of the doubt when I first encounter them but you have proven nothing but an ideologue, committed to propagating the version of events which suits you and not interested in truth. Modi and Trump are similar in their supporters are all the same, incapable of nuance.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/12/1053511

Good article on why the new law is so bad. Again, a neutral source (I'm ready to hear something about how the UN is anti-Hindu now and a pro-Muslim body). I'm the only one presenting objective arguments here.

[The Artful Dodger]

10 minutes ago, Stan said:

That may be the case. But there's no denying there's culpability and provocation on both sides, no? It's not just Hindus rioting on Muslims or vice versa. It's both, combined. 

I do agree that foreign media (UK? US? Elsewhere?) is not pro-Muslim though. Especially not in the UK anyway. So far from it. 

If a discriminatory law was passed against black people tomorrow and there were riots, would you understand why that happened? If then white mobs started attacking the black people, killing some, with the police standing idly by and allowing it to happen, would you be saying both are as bad as each other when people react to being attacked, both in law and physically?