The Artful Dodger Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 9 hours ago, Eco said: I love the new English guy telling the Germans was is, and is NOT, a Nazi symbol. Why would Germans be any more of an authority than anyone else? This is a Belarussian team we're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 47 minutes ago, nudge said: Since we're posting images... that's the screenshot of the official St Pauli merchandise shop. To be honest I know what you mean mate but the confusion arises from the fact that the English have taken a perfectly normal German word which is used every day without any negative connotations and started using it to describe solely the specific Nazi insignia (which is a weird thing to do considering that the symbol in different variations has been used by various nations and groups for ages) and insist that everyone else use it the same way. Why not just call it SS-skull or Nazi Totenkopf or whatever that makes it obvious what you mean?... I obviously haven't seen the alleged BATE fan scarfs with Nazi insignia but it'd be a bit weird for them to use those I think considering that Dinamo Minsk is the right-wing club in the country and they're BATE's main rivals. Wouldn't rule it out either though; there are idiots everywhere. Don't think opposing another right-wing club has anything to do with it, Juventus and Internazionale loathe each other yet both have a considerable amount of far right support. Like many clubs in Italy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted February 15, 2019 Author Administrator Share Posted February 15, 2019 24 minutes ago, SchalkeUK said: I had the impression that this was a thread to comment on the game last night. Forgetting the nonsense that has gone before can anyone explain to me - after watching Arsenal regularly lately - how any team would tolerate the inept inaccurate and useless sort of performance Owobi gave last night (and every game recently). I can only recall 2 passes which did not go to the opposition all night from him - and where were the kids who haver been performing in previous Euro games when seniors have been rested? If the same team (minus Lacaz) takes the field for the return leg I would be worried! They were all bad, not just Iwobi. I do wonder if they thought it'd be a stroll and thought they could take their foot off the gas. And they probably underestimated BATE as well. Even Chelsea could beat them so goes to show how bad that performance was last night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 31 minutes ago, Inverted said: Yes I'm sure the inmates at Auschwitz were absolutely devastated when they saw the Red Army pull up outside the gates. I wouldn't bother. Hailing from a cultureless void of a 'country' established through murder they have to play the moronic, racist buffoon to justify their own existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegan Kel Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 I think it's sad that on Valentine's Day Arsenal can't even master BATE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 2 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said: Why would Germans be any more of an authority than anyone else? This is a Belarussian team we're talking about. Yes, but the club they are questioning in actually St. Pauli, a German club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 4 hours ago, nudge said: Since we're posting images... that's the screenshot of the official St Pauli merchandise shop. To be honest I know what you mean mate but the confusion arises from the fact that the English have taken a perfectly normal German word which is used every day without any negative connotations and started using it to describe solely the specific Nazi insignia (which is a weird thing to do considering that the symbol in different variations has been used by various nations and groups for ages) and insist that everyone else use it the same way. Why not just call it SS-skull or Nazi Totenkopf or whatever that makes it obvious what you mean?... I obviously haven't seen the alleged BATE fan scarfs with Nazi insignia but it'd be a bit weird for them to use those I think considering that Dinamo Minsk is the right-wing club in the country and they're BATE's main rivals. Wouldn't rule it out either though; there are idiots everywhere. I think you'll find it wasn't the English which ruined the word. I'm pretty sure the people who ruined the word were the ones who called the SS 3rd Panzer Division "Totenkopf" and called the concentration camp force the Totenkopfverbaende. It's perfectly logical that the rest of the world associates the German word Totenkopf with the particular design which accompanies the only uses of the word that 99% of the world is aware. If Germans aren't aware of the associations that the word has then that's not anyone else's problem. If you're in Germany, then ok, it means any skull and crossbones. If you're anywhere else in the world, "Totenkopf" means this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted February 15, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted February 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, Inverted said: I think you'll find it wasn't the English which ruined the word. I'm pretty sure the people who ruined the word were the ones who called the SS 3rd Panzer Division "Totenkopf" and called the concentration camp force the Totenkopfverbaende. It's perfectly logical that the rest of the world associates the German word Totenkopf with the particular design which accompanies the only uses of the word that 99% of the world is aware. If Germans aren't aware of the associations that the word has then that's not anyone else's problem. If you're in Germany, then ok, it means any skull and crossbones. If you're anywhere else in the world, "Totenkopf" means this: And St Pauli aren't in Germany I take it?... shut up claimed that St Pauli aren't using the Totenkopf because his (and "99% of the world" according to you which is a very bold statement considering that the majority of the world's population doesn't associate the word with anything because they don't even have the slightest idea of the existence of the word and would just look at you bemused) understanding of the word is different from what it means originally in the country where the club is based and how it's used by the club itself. As I said before I see where the confusion is coming from but I find it extremely arrogant to insist that everyone should have the same interpretation whenever the word is mentioned regardless of context. "If Germans aren't aware of the associations that the word has then that's not anyone else's problem" - well it works both ways doesn't it?... If you use a German word to describe something in Germany you should probably also be aware of its meaning in German speaking countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted February 15, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted February 15, 2019 8 minutes ago, shut up said: In every English speaking country Totenkopf represents the Nazis. We don't have to say Nazi Totenkopf or SS Totenkopf. It is Totenkopf. According to my French housemate it is the same in France. And like I said, everyone type in Totenkopf into google and see what comes up. ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Batard Posted February 15, 2019 Administrator Share Posted February 15, 2019 Totenkopf is very much associated with the Nazi's in France, but more specifically events such as the Le Paradis massacre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted February 15, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted February 15, 2019 16 minutes ago, shut up said: In every English speaking country Totenkopf represents the Nazis. We don't have to say Nazi Totenkopf or SS Totenkopf. It is simply Totenkopf. According to my French housemate it is the same in France. (maybe @Batard can confirm) And like I said, everyone type in Totenkopf into google and see what comes up. Jesus Christ I'm not debating what the word means in every English speaking country or France or any other country potentially. I know the negative connotation it can carry. I'm talking about what it means in Germany though (which we have established already as you said) and the fact that St Pauli use Totenkopf as their symbol and actually call it that - which you disagree with because it has only one meaning for you but there's a cultural context to it. It's a simple semantic confusion which has turned into a completely silly argument to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted February 15, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted February 15, 2019 13 minutes ago, shut up said: I meant non germans or people using german browser obviously we have established that in germany it is just the skull and cross bones. Also, due to the laws in Germany regarding anything affiliated with the Nazis would be filtered out? , unless you literally typed in 'nazi stuff'. nah a few images actually come up later if I scroll down that google search page but I think we spammed the forum enough with Nazi insignia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, shut up said: Well they still use the swastika in Jainism, but we all know what it means And was used by the Buddhist way before Hitler was born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted February 15, 2019 Author Administrator Share Posted February 15, 2019 Just now, shut up said: I know, but unfortunately the swastika only represents one thing now If you're that way inclined or in that mode of thinking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Just now, shut up said: I know, but unfortunately the swastika only represents one thing now To people not informed. I had to explain it to my Mother when she saw a Buddhist statue at the Temple I used to visit, that had one displayed. While unfortunate, it' still hold meaning in Buddhism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted February 15, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted February 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, shut up said: That was a guess/question btw. i wasn't sure if true or not, but I know that any Nazi insignia in Germany is punishable by prison sentence?? Yes that's correct, the use of certain symbols such as the swastika, S-rune, SS-Totenkopf, Keltenkreuz etc. are punishable by prison sentence but there are also exceptions depending on how it's used (e.g. education, art (now including video games too) or science, research or teaching, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted February 15, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 minute ago, shut up said: Surprised about Keltenkreuz being banned tbh Yeah a certain variation of a stylised Keltenkreuz was a symbol used by VSBD (a banned neo-nazi group). I think only that particular version of it is banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panna King Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 I have a feeling this Ozil and Emery fall out could cost us this season and also Emerys job in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 2 hours ago, Eco said: And was used by the Buddhist way before Hitler was born. Are you suggesting Hitler is the Dali Lama? I knew all religion was dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 2 hours ago, shut up said: Yeah I know, but lets be honest, you try and walking around any country except India with a swastika I saw some kid with a shitload of swastikas on his shirt in China, thought it was weird but also figured he probably doesn't know a thing about the Nazis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 12 hours ago, Inverted said: Yes I'm sure the inmates at Auschwitz were absolutely devastated when they saw the Red Army pull up outside the gates. Midnight raids and death camps were par for the course in the soviet union during WW2. Educate yourself. They saved 8 thousand jews at Auschwitz. They murdered hundreds of thousands of eastern Europeans, Russians, Germans and Chinese. Including jews. Not sure if we still have any Polish or Ukrainian members but fuck me they'd be unhappy at your ignorance here. I suppose next time I wear Hugo Boss I'll be decried in the street as an SS sympathiser as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 How has a Bate vs Arsenal thread now turn into a thread discussing who killed more, Hitler or Stalin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 25 minutes ago, Cicero said: How has a Bate vs Arsenal thread now turn into a thread discussing who killed more, Hitler or Stalin? Stalin. But he had longer at the top. Hitler beats him easily during that 5 -6 year period of WW2. It was an off handed reference that the Russians were also real bad, that inverted has tried to declaim. The real discussion is how racist it is or isn't to have an off centre jolly roger on your merch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 11 hours ago, Devil-Dick Willie said: Midnight raids and death camps were par for the course in the soviet union during WW2. Educate yourself. They saved 8 thousand jews at Auschwitz. They murdered hundreds of thousands of eastern Europeans, Russians, Germans and Chinese. Including jews. Not sure if we still have any Polish or Ukrainian members but fuck me they'd be unhappy at your ignorance here. I suppose next time I wear Hugo Boss I'll be decried in the street as an SS sympathiser as well. Lol I also remember when I first learned "The Soviets were actually worse than the Nazis!" as an edgy 14 year-old. Good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Just now, Inverted said: Lol I also remember when I first learned "The Soviets were actually worse than the Nazis!" as an edgy 14 year-old. Good times. It's not that 'the soviets were worse' Stalin was just directly responsible for more deaths (mostly his own as well). This is a historical fact. So if you wanna measure in corpses I guess then by all means, go ahead. But I'm sure an air headed socialist like you will put all those poor dead unionists down to 'evil cold war capitalist propaganda'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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