AFC World Cup Qualifiers

[Mel81x+]

Happy with the Iraq - Iran score but a bit disappointed we couldn't win our game on the day. 1 - 1 is not something we should be looking at thinking is a good score considering we've got good talent coming up now.

[Azeem]

Carlos Querioz lost only three times to Asian opposition in his stint with Iran

Willmott has now lost twice in first six games 

[Michael]

21 hours ago, Stick With Azeem said:

Vietnam won 1-0 vs UAE

Iraq 2-1 Iran

Uzbekistan 2-3 Saudi Arabia 

Lebanon 0-0 South Korea 

Syria 2-1 China

Iraq played a super game and they deserved to beat the Iranians given the chances that Iraq had. Iraq have usually gotten the better of Iran in recent years when they have met competitively. The last minute winning header was well deserved by Iraq, you could tell something dramatic was going to happen when the corner was being taken.

Saudi Arabia also did very well to beat a tough Uzbekistan team away from home. Salim Al-Dosari was the player that really stood out, he had a great game. He topped off his performance with a brilliant dribble and chip for the winning goal, he looks a great player.

Syria did well to beat China and one wonders when will China meet their potential. They have a strong league relative to most other Asian leagues and some decent players, but they always seem to struggle against the better Asian sides.

Vietnam will be elated with their win over the UAE. The Vietnamese look a good side and they are punching above their weight, so good luck to them.

[Michael]

6 hours ago, Mel81x said:

Happy with the Iraq - Iran score but a bit disappointed we couldn't win our game on the day. 1 - 1 is not something we should be looking at thinking is a good score considering we've got good talent coming up now.

India are a much improved team than they used to be, but they still have a very long way to go before they can seriously compete with Asia's best teams. Their domestic league which has had a lot of money pumped into it, has definitely helped to improve many of the Indian players though.

[Mel81x+]

1 minute ago, Michael said:

India are a much improved team than they used to be, but they still have a very long way to go before they can seriously compete with Asia's best teams. Their domestic league which has had a lot of money pumped into it, has definitely helped to improve many of the Indian players though.

I concur. I don't think we can compete at the higher levels with teams that consistently qualify for the World Cup or do well in the Asian cup but we're getting better and the team has improved immensely over the past decade too. Used to be a time where we'd go to games like the one we just played and lose by more than a goal. We were down and came back which is a plus but we're far from being competitive imo.

[Michael]

5 hours ago, Stick With Azeem said:

Carlos Querioz lost only three times to Asian opposition in his stint with Iran

Willmott has now lost twice in first six games 

Carlos Querioz used to focus on making Iran's defence very strong. He has always liked very defensive tactics. With Iran he used rely on a very strong defence and hope that he would catch teams out on the counter attack with the pacy forwards he played. It was very effective against the other Asian teams and even at the World Cup. However, his Iranian team would never take the game to the teams at the World Cup or even the better Asian sides.

Wilmots on the other hand, likes his teams to play more offensive football compared to Querioz's defensive tactics. So that in turn makes Iran more open to conceding goals, even though in theory they are more likely to create more chances. I think though for a team like Iran, Querioz's defensive tactics are probably more suited to them and probably more effective.

[Michael]

6 minutes ago, Mel81x said:

I concur. I don't think we can compete at the higher levels with teams that consistently qualify for the World Cup or do well in the Asian cup but we're getting better and the team has improved immensely over the past decade too. Used to be a time where we'd go to games like the one we just played and lose by more than a goal. We were down and came back which is a plus but we're far from being competitive imo.

Well to be fair Afghanistan are a much improved team as well, although India are probably still better right now. But there was a time not so long ago that both these teams would be beaten by a score of something like 6-0 or 7-0 when they played the West Asian and the East Asian sides. But these days they would probably lose by a much less heavy scoreline.

India is probably the best team in South Asia right now and they could probably get the better of some of the South East Asian sides. But the West Asian teams and the big East Asian teams as well as Uzbekistan are still much better right now. But nonetheless, the Indians should be pleased with the progress that they have made.

[Mel81x+]

26 minutes ago, Michael said:

Well to be fair Afghanistan are a much improved team as well, although India are probably still better right now. But there was a time not so long ago that both these teams would be beaten by a score of something like 6-0 or 7-0 when they played the West Asian and the East Asian sides. But these days they would probably lose by a much less heavy scoreline.

India is probably the best team in South Asia right now and they could probably get the better of some of the South East Asian sides. But the West Asian teams and the big East Asian teams as well as Uzbekistan are still much better right now. But nonetheless, the Indians should be pleased with the progress that they have made.

I think as a defensive unit we're so much better than we used to be. Where the real problem lies is in the front of the attack. Having to rely on someone like Sunil Chhetri comes at a cost of watching someone be on fire one day and then totally cold the next (this happens more than being on fire). The other problem with the comment about the ISL and the money pumped into it lies in the fact that if you look at the last few editions you rarely see any domestic talent feature in the assist block at the top of the arc or even in the goal-scoring department. This year we've got players like Brandon Fernandes and Mandar Rao Desai along with so many others who are getting better but it needs to be emphasized a lot more to improve that part of our game. The current top-scorer hasn't been touched in two seasons and to be fair to him he is very good but as I said before this is an area of the entire team that needs severe improvement if we want to compete better. 

I don't think we'll be touching East-Asia any time soon because their development system is unrivaled across Asia (specifically Japan) but we're getting to a point where I think I might see us compete in a World Cup in my lifetime. 

 

[Mel81x+]

That might be curtains on our WCQ campaign unless we can somehow come back and win this game now. Oman up at the 33rd minute.

[Stan]

This is like something from South America! Impressive... 

 

[Azeem]

Iraq drew Bahrain 0-0, top of the group 

[Dr. Gonzo]

I think Iran need to sack Wilmots ASAP

[Michael]

On 21/11/2019 at 23:45, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think Iran need to sack Wilmots ASAP

Why do they need to sack Wilmots?  He was only hired in May. Iran beat Syria 5-0, they beat Hong Kong 2-0 and they destroyed Cambodia 14-0 under Wilmots! They also drew 1-1 in Seoul to Asian powerhouses South Korea. So they lost their last two recent matches away from home to Bahrain and Iraq respectively. Both these teams have historically beaten Iran relatively regularly, when they have played in their own patch, so there is nothing dramatically new there. These two teams are arguably Iran's biggest rivals and Iran has always found them tough when Iran has played away from home against them.

Trust me, if Iran bring in someone else to replace Wilmots, nothing drastic will change. Wilmots is a good manager, given more time, he can achieve big things with Iran. Sure Queiroz set the bar high with Iran for a long time, but even under him, their performances started to be not so impressive towards the end of his tenure as manager. Iran's 3-0 loss to Japan at this year's Asian Cup in January was the last straw. Wilmots is an experienced manager, he just needs more time at the helm.

[Dr. Gonzo]

12 minutes ago, Michael said:

Why do they need to sack Wilmots?  He was only hired in May. Iran beat Syria 5-0, they beat Hong Kong 2-0 and they destroyed Cambodia 14-0 under Wilmots! They also drew 1-1 in Seoul to Asian powerhouses South Korea. So they lost their last two recent matches away from home to Bahrain and Iraq respectively. Both these teams have historically beaten Iran  when they played in their own patch, so there is nothing dramatically new there. These two teams are arguably Iran's biggest rivals and Iran has always found them tough when Iran has played away from home against them.

Trust me, if Iran bring in someone else to replace Wilmots, nothing drastic will change. Wilmots is a good manager, given more time, he can achieve big things with Iran. Sure Queiroz set the bar high with Iran for a long time, but even under him, their performances started to be not so impressive towards the end of his tenure as manager. Iran's 3-0 loss to Japan at this year's Asian Cup in January was the last straw for the board. Wilmots is an experienced manager, he just needs more time at the helm.

Queiroz was on his way out before the Asian Cup - he wanted to leave after the World Cup and it took a lot of persuading by IRF to get him to stay for the Asia cup.

Iran have one of the better Asian squads, so them beating Syria, Hong Kong and Cambodia comfortably isn't really all that impressive to me. Instead the abysmal performances where the players looked lost against Bahrain and Iraq are what make me think "this isn't going to work out" - Iran sitting in 3rd in their group is poor for them.

Iran can't just be flat track bullies. I understand that football is really not a priority to most Iranians right now - the economy is in absolute tatters, they've only just started having the internet trickle back to them, and the petrol rationing is making a significant impact on their day to day lives. But at the end of the day Iran are still one of the better Asian footballing nations and those abject performances have loads of Iranian football fans fuming.

I don't really know much about Wilmots other than him taking a decent looking Belgium side and then having it look pretty shit in the Euros before he lost his job. I think that's a far cry from someone like Quieroz who took a pretty limited Iran side and set up an organised defense that also used the individual attacking talents of the good attackers he had available at his disposal.

Wilmots looks like he'll have Iran as flat track bullies, where we'll play attacking football against the sides weaker than us (I'm saying us because I'm half Iranian) - but against anyone decent, I think the early days of his Iran indicate he'll have us looking lost. That's fine in the World Cup when we're up against the likes of Spain or Portugal (but again, I don't think Quieroz had us looking lost in those matches, but you could tell they were waaaaaaaay more shite than those European giants). That's not fine when it's your closest regional rivals.

As someone said on the Team Melli subreddit - I've never seen so many Iran fans so united in wanting a manager out. Apparently there's contractual disputes too between IRF and Wilmots and his staff - so it looks like his reign as the Iran manager may be over. I think it's important to get him out before the next batch of qualifiers tbh.

[Michael]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Queiroz was on his way out before the Asian Cup - he wanted to leave after the World Cup and it took a lot of persuading by IRF to get him to stay for the Asia cup.

Iran have one of the better Asian squads, so them beating Syria, Hong Kong and Cambodia comfortably isn't really all that impressive to me. Instead the abysmal performances where the players looked lost against Bahrain and Iraq are what make me think "this isn't going to work out" - Iran sitting in 3rd in their group is poor for them.

Iran can't just be flat track bullies. I understand that football is really not a priority to most Iranians right now - the economy is in absolute tatters, they've only just started having the internet trickle back to them, and the petrol rationing is making a significant impact on their day to day lives. But at the end of the day Iran are still one of the better Asian footballing nations and those abject performances have loads of Iranian football fans fuming.

I don't really know much about Wilmots other than him taking a decent looking Belgium side and then having it look pretty shit in the Euros before he lost his job. I think that's a far cry from someone like Quieroz who took a pretty limited Iran side and set up an organised defense that also used the individual attacking talents of the good attackers he had available at his disposal.

Wilmots looks like he'll have Iran as flat track bullies, where we'll play attacking football against the sides weaker than us (I'm saying us because I'm half Iranian) - but against anyone decent, I think the early days of his Iran indicate he'll have us looking lost. That's fine in the World Cup when we're up against the likes of Spain or Portugal (but again, I don't think Quieroz had us looking lost in those matches, but you could tell they were waaaaaaaay more shite than those European giants). That's not fine when it's your closest regional rivals.

That's true about Queiroz. Iran do have one of the better Asian squads, but so do Iraq, while Bahrain are no pushovers either at the Asian level. If you are familiar with Asian football, then you will also be aware that in that region of the world, home advantage is a bigger advantage than in most places in the world. So Iran losing to Iraq and Bahrain away from home is not a huge surprise, dissapointing from your perspective as a fan of them yes, but not that surprising. I agree wins at home over Syria and Cambodia are to be expected, but still to win 5-0 and 14-0 is a decent feat. Drawing away to South Korea as well was decent, even if it was just a friendly. 

Wilmots is one of the better international managers out there, I'm not saying he is the best, but he is good. If he gets sacked, not many other top managers are going to want to manage an Asian national team, at least it will be difficult to draw them in. 

I agree with you, that his attacking style is probably less affective than Querioz's more defensive approach. There is more chance of losing against the better Asian sides if he always adopts an attacking approach, but it does make for more exciting football. I think it's too early to sack Wilmots after only 6 months as manager, everything has to be taken into perspective and I think he should be given more time.

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 hours ago, Michael said:

That's true about Queiroz. Iran do have one of the better Asian squads, but so do Iraq, while Bahrain are no pushovers either at the Asian level. If you are familiar with Asian football, then you will also be aware that in that region of the world, home advantage is a bigger advantage than in most places in the world. So Iran losing to Iraq and Bahrain away from home is not a huge surprise, dissapointing from your perspective as a fan of them yes, but not that surprising. I agree wins at home over Syria and Cambodia are to be expected, but still to win 5-0 and 14-0 is a decent feat. Drawing away to South Korea as well was decent, even if it was just a friendly. 

Wilmots is one of the better international managers out there, I'm not saying he is the best, but he is good. If he gets sacked, not many other top managers are going to want to manage an Asian national team, at least it will be difficult to draw them in. 

I agree with you, that his attacking style is probably less affective than Querioz's more defensive approach. There is more chance of losing against the better Asian sides if he always adopts an attacking approach, but it does make for more exciting football. I think it's too early to sack Wilmots after only 6 months as manager, everything has to be taken into perspective and I think he should be given more time.

I would normally agree with everything you’ve said, but Iran should be qualifying out of this group and 4 games in looking this poor is just not good. It’s not worth “more exciting football” if you just look shite the second you’re up against anyone halfway decent.

I don’t think he knows Iran’s strengths and weaknesses. I also am not convinced he’s a good international manager, his record really isn’t that great tbh

[Azeem]

Wilmot made an excellent Belgian side look average, couldn't qualify for the World Cup with a talented Ivorian team that were African Champions so his late performance don't make him look like one of the better managers out there in the international circuit.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Apparently it's unclear as to whether or not Wilmots still has his job - which is pretty strange. But the president of FFIRI (the Iranian FA) just resigned - although it's because he's had 2 heart attacks recently.

[Dr. Gonzo]

A bunch of Chinese news sources say Iran sacked Wilmots on December 5th? But I'm not finding anything in Farsi or English about it. Weird.

[nudge]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

A bunch of Chinese news sources say Iran sacked Wilmots on December 5th? But I'm not finding anything in Farsi or English about it. Weird.

https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/442677/Iran-football-federation-cancels-contract-with-Marc-Wilmots

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-iran/wilmots-leaves-role-as-iran-coach-idUKKBN1Y90A8

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2019/12/05/soccer/marc-wilmots-steps-iran-coach/

https://www.dpa-international.com/topic/marc-wilmots-disputes-details-left-post-iran-coach-urn%3Anewsml%3Adpa.com%3A20090101%3A191205-99-11731

 

 

You're welcome  

[Dr. Gonzo]

Cheers for confirming the good news for me  

[Mpache]

On 27/11/2019 at 08:49, Azeem said:

Wilmot made an excellent Belgian side look average, couldn't qualify for the World Cup with a talented Ivorian team that were African Champions so his late performance don't make him look like one of the better managers out there in the international circuit.

Old debate, but I want in. Sorry @Michael but I disagree entirely. Azeem summed up my thoughts perfectly.

[Azeem]

1 hour ago, Vader said:

Old debate, but I want in. Sorry @Michael but I disagree entirely. Azeem summed up my thoughts perfectly.

Welcome back 

[Azeem]

A lot of matches if not the whole round might be postponed due to corona, Iran China and South Korea all had home games this March

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just seen that 2 Iranians were among the top scorers in Russia and Portugal. It’s been a long long long time since I’ve seen Iran play with 2 up top, but maybe that’s a good idea now that we’ve got 2 strikers doing well in leagues outside the Middle East. Jahanbaksh needs to move back to the Netherlands quick and that’s maybe a decent attack.