Your Team's Unsung Hero

[Rick]

25 minutes ago, Harry said:

I'm kind of thinking we should let go one of Hendo or Milner tbh. Great servants of the club but I think to go to the next level we need a more clear cut best 11 and can't keep rotating equal playing time through any 3 of Gini, naby, faby, Hendo, Lallana, ox and Milner.

 

Henderson has been massive in the last few games and Milner chips in with assists and scored our pen yesterday. Ridiculous to let either go. Keita, Gini & Fabinho all do a job, but it's not the one those two can do. 

[Inverted]

Ajer. 

A lot of the more yer da type fans can't stand him because he's slow, and also because despite being a giant he seemed kinda timid in the challenge (being a midfielder naturally) when he arrived but this season he's really matured into quite a complete CB. 

He's got much more comfortable in the air and is using his height well, he's a strong one-on-one defender, and he's brilliant at bringing the ball out. 

Obviously with Tierney, Brown, McGregor and the likes of Rogic and Ntcham, he is often ignored. But arguably the biggest drop in quality the team has is when he's missing. 

[Harry]

2 hours ago, Rick said:

Henderson has been massive in the last few games and Milner chips in with assists and scored our pen yesterday. Ridiculous to let either go. Keita, Gini & Fabinho all do a job, but it's not the one those two can do. 

I don't disagree. But it would take tough decisions to make some sense of that midfield squad and get it to the point there is a clear best 3 midfielders that you could predict in the starting lineup most games.

[LFCMadLad]

6 minutes ago, Harry said:

I don't disagree. But it would take tough decisions to make some sense of that midfield squad and get it to the point there is a clear best 3 midfielders that you could predict in the starting lineup most games.

Nah, we've needed squad depth for donkeys. Selling our captain now would be mental, especially as he can play to a high level in multiple positions. 

[Stan]

7 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Nah, we've needed squad depth for donkeys. Selling our captain now would be mental, especially as he can play to a high level in multiple positions. 

Yeah you need your hard grafters which Henderson gives you. 

You can upgrade and have a better starting 3 over the next few years but selling Henderson now would be criminal. I've not always been his biggest fan and thought moving to Liverpool would be too much of a step up, and usually just found him to be a moany cunt like Rooney but he's properly upped his game last few weeks.

[Rick]

26 minutes ago, Harry said:

I don't disagree. But it would take tough decisions to make some sense of that midfield squad and get it to the point there is a clear best 3 midfielders that you could predict in the starting lineup most games.

One of our biggest issues is lack of depth. It would be madness to let any of our important players go.

[Chaaay AFC]

Aaron Ramsey has been unsung in his whole time at the club, only since it's been confirmed he is departing he has been getting the credit he deserves. 

[Burning Gold]

58 minutes ago, Harry said:

I don't disagree. But it would take tough decisions to make some sense of that midfield squad and get it to the point there is a clear best 3 midfielders that you could predict in the starting lineup most games.

Why on earth would you want that?

[Cicero]

Jorginho

Get's too much stick. Some deserved, but a large portion just unjustified. Valuable asset in our build up and the way we operate. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 hours ago, Harry said:

I'm kind of thinking we should let go one of Hendo or Milner tbh. Great servants of the club but I think to go to the next level we need a more clear cut best 11 and can't keep rotating equal playing time through any 3 of Gini, naby, faby, Hendo, Lallana, ox and Milner.

 

Lol what? You want us to get rid of 2 of our best midfielders, who are captain and vice captain, and say we can’t keep rotating the midfield, even though we’ve been rotating the midfield all season long to largely great effect? That’s mental. Are you one of those people that don’t rate Henderson? If so: lol, you should stop that, he’s been great for us for years in multiple midfield roles. If not: errr... why do you want us to lose depth and leadership? We need both.

The only midfielder of ours I’d let go is Lallana. Not because I don’t rate him, because I do, but with the Ox being healthy soon he’s going to get even less of a look in our midfield. He’s good enough to be getting more minutes somewhere else.

I wouldn’t let anyone who isn’t set to leave this summer on a free transfer go, unless we had a clear upgrade on the departing player, though. And a warm body coming in from the academy will be a clear upgrade on 2 of those leaving on free transfers, as Moreno and Markovic are barely football players.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

Yeah you need your hard grafters which Henderson gives you. 

You can upgrade and have a better starting 3 over the next few years but selling Henderson now would be criminal. I've not always been his biggest fan and thought moving to Liverpool would be too much of a step up, and usually just found him to be a moany cunt like Rooney but he's properly upped his game last few weeks.

He’s been great for us for years now. Gets a lot of stick when he plays as our deepest midfielder because he plays it safe (although he’s developed beautiful long passes to his game that open up defenses from this #6 role, but people keep that whole “sideways passing stereotype” - and that’s where he’s played in the last 18 months until recently. And now he’s playing in a box to box role he hasn’t played in recently and featured in most prominently under the Rodgers-Suarez title challenge. And he’s fucking great there.

He gets much more credit in the box to box role, probably because he’s more obviously making contributions going forward. But he’s been great for us for years now, I think it’s strange he still generally doesn’t get much credit for how much he’s grown since joining us from Sunderland. And we’re lucky Rodgers failed in trying to swap him for Clint fucking Dempsey 

[LFCMike]

Klopp's always going to rotate the midfielders. With the way we play, it's the one area of the team that needs freshening up game to game. Just look at this time last year when we were down to the bare bones in midfield, it showed and we struggled over the line for fourth. This year we have so many more options, why would you want to lose that?

[Rick]

49 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Klopp's always going to rotate the midfielders. With the way we play, it's the one area of the team that needs freshening up game to game. Just look at this time last year when we were down to the bare bones in midfield, it showed and we struggled over the line for fourth. This year we have so many more options, why would you want to lose that?

Harry is an odd one haha

[Dr. Gonzo]

56 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Klopp's always going to rotate the midfielders. With the way we play, it's the one area of the team that needs freshening up game to game. Just look at this time last year when we were down to the bare bones in midfield, it showed and we struggled over the line for fourth. This year we have so many more options, why would you want to lose that?

Yeah, taking away our midfield depth essentially takes away our tactical flexibility. Sure, we might be more fun to watch for a neutral then because we have to resort to the all out attack all of the time - but we'd certainly be worse off for it, it's much better being able to control games.

[Harry]

6 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Lol what? You want us to get rid of 2 of our best midfielders, who are captain and vice captain, and say we can’t keep rotating the midfield, even though we’ve been rotating the midfield all season long to largely great effect? That’s mental. Are you one of those people that don’t rate Henderson? If so: lol, you should stop that, he’s been great for us for years in multiple midfield roles. If not: errr... why do you want us to lose depth and leadership? We need both.

The only midfielder of ours I’d let go is Lallana. Not because I don’t rate him, because I do, but with the Ox being healthy soon he’s going to get even less of a look in our midfield. He’s good enough to be getting more minutes somewhere else.

I wouldn’t let anyone who isn’t set to leave this summer on a free transfer go, unless we had a clear upgrade on the departing player, though. And a warm body coming in from the academy will be a clear upgrade on 2 of those leaving on free transfers, as Moreno and Markovic are barely football players.

Not both of them, but Milner possibly, and unquestionably lallana. I love every fucking player in our squad, but I think if we want to improve further we need to get to the point there are some midfielders in our squad being spoken about in our player of the season conversations, which hasn’t happened this year. Overall for the squad we need a first 11 midfield that you can go into a CL final not worried about being out of its depth.

I’m not sure one of our midfielders would get into the City lineup, and its sure to be an area we struggle to compete with Barcelona in the upcoming tie. If we want to further build the midfield quality we need to create  some space for growth, and not  be too sentimental about how good a job the players have all done for us. Milner left city because as much as they loved him, they also knew he wasn’t good enough to play as often as he’d like in midfield. If we want to surpass them we need to make tough decisions also.

5 hours ago, LFCMike said:

Klopp's always going to rotate the midfielders. With the way we play, it's the one area of the team that needs freshening up game to game. Just look at this time last year when we were down to the bare bones in midfield, it showed and we struggled over the line for fourth. This year we have so many more options, why would you want to lose that?

Of course you need solid depth in midfield and I’m not advocating not to have that, but if Ericksen play every game, whilst also covering the most distance per match played I’m not sure I accept the premise that we need 7 equally good first choice level midfielders that rotate every game. I’d rather see some wages redirected to quality backups in the attacking positions.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Harry said:

Not both of them, but Milner possibly, and unquestionably lallana. I love every fucking player in our squad, but I think if we want to improve further we need to get to the point there are some midfielders in our squad being spoken about in our player of the season conversations, which hasn’t happened this year. Overall for the squad we need a first 11 midfield that you can go into a CL final not worried about being out of its depth.

I’m not sure one of our midfielders would get into the City lineup, and its sure to be an area we struggle to compete with Barcelona in the upcoming tie. If we want to further build the midfield quality we need to create  some space for growth, and not  be too sentimental about how good a job the players have all done for us. Milner left city because as much as they loved him, they also knew he wasn’t good enough to play as often as he’d like in midfield. If we want to surpass them we need to make tough decisions also.

Of course you need solid depth in midfield and I’m not advocating not to have that, but if Ericksen play every game, whilst also covering the most distance per match played I’m not sure I accept the premise that we need 7 equally good first choice level midfielders that rotate every game. I’d rather see some wages redirected to quality backups in the attacking positions.

I don't agree that a side needs an out and out best XI in order to be a very good side. A midfield with depth gives the manager more tactical options to put out different midfields for different tactical options - we've seen it so much this season, different midfield trios for us bring different strengths and weaknesses, which in turn gives us the ability to change how we're playing based on our oppositions strengths and weaknesses.

Milner left City because he was getting regular first team football on the right wing and he wanted regular first team football in the midfield. Then Klopp came in and said, "right, well Moreno is dogshit you're our left back now"  and then last season Milner got his regular game time in the middle. And now he's somewhere in between a regular starter and a squad player. That is excellent depth and a good way to phase out a hard working and talented veteran.

Agree we need more depth and have some wages redirected to quality backups in the attacking positions. But not at the expense of our depth in the midfield, which was virtually nonexistent last season (and probably led to Milner's aging legs getting overplayed in all honesty). Looking at your Ericksen comparison, that's all well and good that Spurs can rely on him constantly - but how are they doing in the league with their lack of depth and lack of rotation? Meanwhile we're competing with the side that probably has the most depth in the league for the title after having improved our depth.

Freeing our wage budget of Daniel Sturridge, Moreno, and Markovic will go a long way to opening up money to pay better attacking options for our bench. They're all grossly overpaid in terms of what they contribute to our first team (which with Sturridge no longer looking good like he did at the beginning of the season is: fuck all). And that'll be wages freed up without us needing to sell the good players we have in an area where having better depth there this season has played a big part in how we've improved compared to last year.

It's not even a question of sentimentality here. Milner's getting on, but it's not like he's shown us he's massively declining in performances. He's not shown that he's unwilling to be a squad player for us and is still a very good squad player for us. Henderson is our captain who's performed well for years and is now getting credit for playing well in his preferred role after being moved back there for the first time in a few seasons. These are players that are performing in our current system, it's not a tough decision to decide we want to keep them when they're still playing well in the system we play. It's an easy decision to make.

It's a tougher decision with players like Lallana and Ings. Players that work hard, are popular with the manager and squad, and in Lallana's case more than Ings, have actually done well in the manager's system. But with Lallana that was years ago that he performed well and he had awful injury issues to overcome. So there that's a question of what does the player offer us now/what does the player offer going forward v. what have they done for us in the past? And it's different with Lallana than it is with Milner and Henderson, because with those two you can say "well those players are actively contributing now" but with Lallana he hardly ever gets into the side. He's lost too much pace to be an option out wide for us in the system we play and in the centre, nobody knows if he's capable of going a full 90 in that role because it's been such a long time since he's done it.

And it's not like he's Gini or Henderson, where we could ask him to play as the deepest midfielder and expect him to perform reasonably well. Which is a shame, because I love Lallana, but I don't even know how good of an option he is as a squad player for us anymore. Had you floated that name as a midfielder you think we should replace, I would probably have nodded in agreement. But suggesting we sell one of Henderson or Milner is very different, quite frankly I think it's mental. Henderson's in such good form lately that even the media is giving him credit for playing well for once, which is rare because he's been good for years and usually gets a load of stick for it. And Milner's still performing well despite getting older and older, doesn't look like his legs are leaving him, and can certainly still do a job as a squad player with the remaining year left on his contract. Makes far more sense to replace him when his contract expires next year.

[Harry]

Great post @Dr. Gonzo

I didn't mention Lallana because to me it goes without saying that he, Moreno, Sturridge and Markovic should be moved on.

But with ox coming back and looking into next season thinking we'd really want to be playing naby Keita 2000+ mins more than we did this year and fabinho 1000+ mins more along with Ox coming back and with both Gini and Hendo getting solid minutes I just don't see Milner getting any time in midfield next year. If he's content to be backup RB,LB utility then keep him, but if he's going to reduce the opportunities to get Keita a regular run in the side and start fulfilling his potential then as much as I love jimmy I'm not in favour.

I'm not suggesting we put all our eggs in the basket of a first 11 at the expense of all tactical flexibility either, but we currently have 7 experienced, senior players for 2.5 positions (depending on formation)... I value tactical flexibility for sure but would you swap Mane, Salah and Firmino for 6 players each 75% as good but with totally different skills giving you many tactical options...? I'm guessing not because at the end of the day a versatile world class player is better to have in your first team 95% of the time and just have them adapt to your tactics as far as possible. 

[Vegan Kel]

I can't really think of any from the current squad for the reason that virtually every player in our squad is massively overrated and Dalot hasn't really done anything worthy of being a 'hero'. Actually, fuck it, McTominay.

Past players though: Irwin (one of the very best fullbacks of all time imho), Johnsen,  Butt, Fletcher, O'Shea and Park. Also Louis Saha was a boss, proper underrated at United. Loved him