Harry Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 I'm on a train. Laggy 4g connection with everyone watching Netflix etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Today we've had the Tory MP deselected for fraud, the Tory MP who put a protestor in a chokehold, and police getting called to a domestic disturbance between Johnson and his partner. The ridiculous thing is that I still feel like I've probably missed something. Our media has done an absolutely tremendous job to maintain the illusion that there's an argument for keeping this party in power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 I'm not a barrister... But I do have an opinion. Maybe he meant he's a barrista! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber CaaC (John)+ Posted June 22, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted June 22, 2019 Bloody media make me piss myself laughing, big headlines with this Police called to Boris Johnson's home after a row, so what, just because he could be the next PM, imagine if Michael Gove was still in the running and he became the PM then the world would piss themselves laughing knowing we in the UK had a former cocaine crack head as a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 The mental thing is the dozens of Tory journalists, including many women, criticising the neighbours for listening to the argument and calling the police. If neighbours didn't call the police when they heard shouting and banging, and couldn't get an answer at the door, then domestic violence would be almost impossible to discover. They're essentially saying that investigating potential domestic violence is a breach of privacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 I really don’t want Boris’ chances of becoming PM damaged in any way. He HAS to win this leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted June 22, 2019 Administrator Share Posted June 22, 2019 7 hours ago, CaaC (John) said: Bloody media make me piss myself laughing, big headlines with this Police called to Boris Johnson's home after a row, so what, just because he could be the next PM, imagine if Michael Gove was still in the running and he became the PM then the world would piss themselves laughing knowing we in the UK had a former cocaine crack head as a PM. It's potential domestic violence. Neighbours did nothing wrong. Police have to investigate. I don't get what the media have done wrong here either? It's our potential PM being investigated for an alleged incident at his home involving his partner. What's the issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber CaaC (John)+ Posted June 22, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted June 22, 2019 1 2 hours ago, Stan said: It's potential domestic violence. Neighbours did nothing wrong. Police have to investigate. I don't get what the media have done wrong here either? It's our potential PM being investigated for an alleged incident at his home involving his partner. What's the issue? We lived in an area here in Scotland that you could hear all that all the time, especially on a Friday/Saturday night and the majority of the time the wife had kicked the shite out of her hubby because he did something she did not like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 19 hours ago, Inverted said: The mental thing is the dozens of Tory journalists, including many women, criticising the neighbours for listening to the argument and calling the police. If neighbours didn't call the police when they heard shouting and banging, and couldn't get an answer at the door, then domestic violence would be almost impossible to discover. They're essentially saying that investigating potential domestic violence is a breach of privacy. I've not see any journalists criticising the neighbours for calling the Police. Interested to know who they are? I have seen a number of journalists criticising the neighbours for running off to the Guardian with the recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairy In Boots Posted June 23, 2019 Author Share Posted June 23, 2019 Lol my Mrs screams at me all the fucking time, she knows I don’t want the neighbours to hear so when she’s losing an argument she resorts to “whaaaa” it works I compromise even though I’m not in the wrong, such is life. It’s not domestic abuse. Domestic abuse would be violence by either of us, in fairness when she’s hormonal she’s chucked shit at me and in the first couple of years after children when your sleep deprived tempers flare a bit, it happens. Viceversa ive heard pretty much all my neighbours have a flare up at some point, it’s part of living with someone. People labelling it domestic abuse need to get out more and live with people, she’s bawling at him anyway by the sound of it, plus she’s hot and the scale rings true the hotter the look the more fucking crazy they are it’s pretty accurate. 16 hours ago, Stan said: It's potential domestic violence. Neighbours did nothing wrong. Police have to investigate. I don't get what the media have done wrong here either? It's our potential PM being investigated for an alleged incident at his home involving his partner. What's the issue? look at these Stan now assuming they’re true, are you telling me you don’t smell a rat? It’s as dodgy as Labours vote rigging in Peterborough . Literally the day it was confirmed that Boris (Leave) was up against Hunt (Remain) the Guardian the most pro remain paper get a recording? The smear campaign will be full on for a month now but the Tory electorate have had 2 years of this kind of bs from the media, they no longer trust them and see the bias, Boris is almost like Trump now In so much as not much will stick, he’ll carry on. None Tory remainers will screech & grow more incredulous at every claim where as Boris supporters will double down and the fractures in society will grow. “Make Britain Great Again” hats might be worth investing in tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 It's curious how now potential dodgy dealings in an election are getting that lot whinging. Moaning! You lost, get over it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted June 23, 2019 Administrator Share Posted June 23, 2019 41 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said: Lol my Mrs screams at me all the fucking time, she knows I don’t want the neighbours to hear so when she’s losing an argument she resorts to “whaaaa” it works I compromise even though I’m not in the wrong, such is life. It’s not domestic abuse. Domestic abuse would be violence by either of us, in fairness when she’s hormonal she’s chucked shit at me and in the first couple of years after children when your sleep deprived tempers flare a bit, it happens. Viceversa ive heard pretty much all my neighbours have a flare up at some point, it’s part of living with someone. People labelling it domestic abuse need to get out more and live with people, she’s bawling at him anyway by the sound of it, plus she’s hot and the scale rings true the hotter the look the more fucking crazy they are it’s pretty accurate. look at these Stan now assuming they’re true, are you telling me you don’t smell a rat? It’s as dodgy as Labours vote rigging in Peterborough . Literally the day it was confirmed that Boris (Leave) was up against Hunt (Remain) the Guardian the most pro remain paper get a recording? The smear campaign will be full on for a month now but the Tory electorate have had 2 years of this kind of bs from the media, they no longer trust them and see the bias, Boris is almost like Trump now In so much as not much will stick, he’ll carry on. None Tory remainers will screech & grow more incredulous at every claim where as Boris supporters will double down and the fractures in society will grow. “Make Britain Great Again” hats might be worth investing in tbh That's the point though. The media are no better than they have been over the past few years. They'll report shite for either side. Let's not act like there's spins on the other side of the argument to smear non-Tory's/Labour. My main point was calling out a potential DV case which should be irrespective of whether it's the potential PM or not. I get people have arguments (weird if you don't) but what's the harm in erring on the side of caution, especially if you start to hear things being smashed? Maybe everyone has different standards on what's acceptable/tolerable to hear your neighbours do during an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Harvsky said: I've not see any journalists criticising the neighbours for calling the Police. Interested to know who they are? I have seen a number of journalists criticising the neighbours for running off to the Guardian with the recording. The Telegraph and Mail have each run pieces (the Telegraph more than one) on the couple, detailing their lives explictly. The Spectator ran a piece suggesting that Boris should move somewhere with neighbours who don't call the police. Allison Pearson called it Stasi-esque on twitter. James Cleverly said that the neighbours choosing to call the police was a bigger story than the row itself. As for the recording distinction, I don't see what's wrong with sitting in my own property and pressing "record" on my phone. Recordings from neighbours have been used in court before. Plus, if there was no recording available, do you think all of these people would have went easy on the couple? Everyone defending Johnson would have criticised the couple for phoning with no good cause. If they record and make it public record, they're over instrusive. If they have no recording, they'd be crazy Remainer neighbours who called the police with no reason to. Focusing on the recording issue is just a way of credibly making life hell for the couple, because by calling the police, they created a negative story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Fairy In Boots said: Lol my Mrs screams at me all the fucking time, she knows I don’t want the neighbours to hear so when she’s losing an argument she resorts to “whaaaa” it works I compromise even though I’m not in the wrong, such is life. It’s not domestic abuse. Domestic abuse would be violence by either of us, in fairness when she’s hormonal she’s chucked shit at me and in the first couple of years after children when your sleep deprived tempers flare a bit, it happens. Viceversa ive heard pretty much all my neighbours have a flare up at some point, it’s part of living with someone. People labelling it domestic abuse need to get out more and live with people, she’s bawling at him anyway by the sound of it, plus she’s hot and the scale rings true the hotter the look the more fucking crazy they are it’s pretty accurate. look at these Stan now assuming they’re true, are you telling me you don’t smell a rat? It’s as dodgy as Labours vote rigging in Peterborough . Literally the day it was confirmed that Boris (Leave) was up against Hunt (Remain) the Guardian the most pro remain paper get a recording? The smear campaign will be full on for a month now but the Tory electorate have had 2 years of this kind of bs from the media, they no longer trust them and see the bias, Boris is almost like Trump now In so much as not much will stick, he’ll carry on. None Tory remainers will screech & grow more incredulous at every claim where as Boris supporters will double down and the fractures in society will grow. “Make Britain Great Again” hats might be worth investing in tbh Good thing the daily Mail were there to identify and point out that bias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Lol it’s not surprising they recorded it at all. I hate my neighbor and if I saw/heard him doing something that could send him to jail, you bet your fucking arse I’m going to make sure I have evidence to send that fucker away. And it’d be his own fault for committing a crime, not mine for reporting him - even if I hate him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Inverted said: The Telegraph and Mail have each run pieces (the Telegraph more than one) on the couple, detailing their lives explictly. The Spectator ran a piece suggesting that Boris should move somewhere with neighbours who don't call the police. Allison Pearson called it Stasi-esque on twitter. James Cleverly said that the neighbours choosing to call the police was a bigger story than the row itself. As for the recording distinction, I don't see what's wrong with sitting in my own property and pressing "record" on my phone. Recordings from neighbours have been used in court before. Plus, if there was no recording available, do you think all of these people would have went easy on the couple? Everyone defending Johnson would have criticised the couple for phoning with no good cause. If they record and make it public record, they're over instrusive. If they have no recording, they'd be crazy Remainer neighbours who called the police with no reason to. Focusing on the recording issue is just a way of credibly making life hell for the couple, because by calling the police, they created a negative story. Probably Cleverley's point and certainly the articles into the background of the couple are about the motive behind calling the police and contacting the Guardian. Not that people shouldn't call the police. It's not by calling the Police that the couple made it a negative story. It's by going to the Guardian when the Police told them nothing was wrong. That is when it moves into the category of character assassination. If you're going to play that game then expect it back. It's got little to do with whether they did it to a Tory or what the Tory press came back with. It would happen with anyone you went down that route within politics with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, Harvsky said: Probably Cleverley's point and certainly the articles into the background of the couple are about the motive behind calling the police and contacting the Guardian. Not that people shouldn't call the police. It's not by calling the Police that the couple made it a negative story. It's by going to the Guardian when the Police told them nothing was wrong. That is when it moves into the category of character defamation. If you're going to play that game then expect it back. It's got little to do with whether they did it to a Tory or what the Tory press came back with. It would happen with anyone you went down the defamation route within politics. Questioning the motive behind the call is exactly what is so wrong. If you can hear shouting and smashing, and can't get an answer at the door, the police recommend that you call. Shaming a couple for following best practice undermines the entire system by which doemstic violence is reported and investigated. And it doesn't move into defamation. In any sense. Defamation is the spreading of false or unfounded statements to harm the reputation of another. Sending a recording could never be defamation. It's a record of an objectively verifiable event, which was obtainable through legal means in the comfort of their own home. They have done nothing wrong, legally or morally. Edit: I also don't remember any major newspaper being so mad when Margaret Hodge secretly recorded a private conversation with Corbyn and sent it out to the media - which is objectively more legally and ethically shady than what this couple have done. Not to mention phone hacking, and the constant prying into the private lives of opposition MPs. Nobody in the British media - nobody - has any right to raise any moral quandary with anything this couple has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 29 minutes ago, Inverted said: Questioning the motive behind the call is exactly what is so wrong. If you can hear shouting and smashing, and can't get an answer at the door, the police recommend that you call. Shaming a couple for following best practice undermines the entire system by which doemstic violence is reported and investigated. And it doesn't move into defamation. In any sense. Defamation is the spreading of false or unfounded statements to harm the reputation of another. Sending a recording could never be defamation. It's a record of an objectively verifiable event, which was obtainable through legal means in the comfort of their own home. They have done nothing wrong, legally or morally. Edit: I also don't remember any major newspaper being so mad when Margaret Hodge secretly recorded a private conversation with Corbyn and sent it out to the media - which is objectively more legally and ethically shady than what this couple have done. Not to mention phone hacking, and the constant prying into the private lives of opposition MPs. Nobody in the British media - nobody - has any right to raise any moral quandary with anything this couple has done. You've cut my sentence and paragraph short for your own bidding. I already mentioned in the full text why the cases you put forward weren't about just calling the police. You've prematurely reacted to the first part of a sentence before taking the whole in. I also changed the word defamation to assassination before your post went live. Defamation was the wrong initial choice of word due to it's legal connotations rather than its dictionary definition. In the last part of your post you went on to deligitimise anyone in the media by association of being in the media, which is exactly what is happening to the couple, legitimacy questioned by association. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 21 minutes ago, Harvsky said: You've cut my sentence and paragraph short for your own bidding. I already mentioned in the full text why the cases you put forward weren't about just calling the police. You've prematurely reacted to the first part of a sentence before taking the whole in. I also changed the word defamation to assassination before your post went live. Defamation was the wrong initial choice of word due to it's legal connotations rather than its dictionary definition. In the last part of your post you went on to deligitimise anyone in the media by association of being in the media, which is exactly what is happening to the couple, legitimacy questioned by association. I don't see how I have. If people follow the guidelines about reporting a domestic disturbance, they've done the right thing, even if it does turn out to be just a drunken argument. There's no scope for questioning the motive. Questioning the propriety of following the best course action in any case, regardless of the identity of the people involved and the people reporting it, weakens the system for preventing domestic violence. As for character assassination, I again don't see how it is. Johnson is a known adulterer, chuckled out by his estranged wife, who then got into a screaming match with his former mistress-turned-partner in her flat, which was clearly audible and was thus available to the public. I don't see how it's worse or than photographing a politician in a public place or camping outside a politician's home. In terms of methods, it's all quite straightforward and honest by usual media standards, but because it's to do with Boris the right-wing press has went into a frenzy over it, and by sheer weight of suggestion, some well-meaning neutrals have been duped into thinking there must be something wrong about it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted June 23, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted June 23, 2019 Surely it's a case of you can never be too careful. You'd rather call the police and be told there isn't a problem than ignore it and later potentially find out somebody got seriously hurt or abused and you could have done something to prevent it. Maybe the fact that it was Boris did make it more likely that people would call, but I'm sure there are false alarms all the time when it comes to domestic abuse and ordinary couples having arguments in their homes that don't make national headlines because it's not a celebrity or politician. Not that it will matter anyway, Boris is still going to make it to number ten regardless of this. It's just more white noise that seems to bounce off his image like all the other nonsense that has gone on around him throughout his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, Inverted said: I don't see how I have. If people follow the guidelines about reporting a domestic disturbance, they've done the right thing, even if it does turn out to be just a drunken argument. There's no scope for questioning the motive. Questioning the propriety of following the best course action in any case, regardless of the identity of the people involved and the people reporting it, weakens the system for preventing domestic violence. Once they went to the Guardian after nothing was found there was scope for questioning because that's not in the remit of "best course action" on domestic abuse. Henceforth the reporting that you raised which we are talking about has a very different context to that which you are trying to box it into to defeat. 13 minutes ago, Inverted said: As for character assassination, I again don't see how it is. Johnson is a known adulterer, chuckled out by his estranged wife, who then got into a screaming match with his former mistress-turned-partner in her flat, which was clearly audible and was thus available to the public. It plants enough doubt to have a polling implication regardless of past character. Timing is everything. The decision to go to the Guardian and the Guardian to print it is purely political. It's there in the leakers argument as to why he did it. 13 minutes ago, Inverted said: In terms of methods, it's all quite straightforward and honest by usual media standards, but because it's to do with Boris the right-wing press has went into a frenzy over it, and by sheer weight of suggestion, some well-meaning neutrals have been duped into thinking there must be something wrong about it as well. It's perfectly legitimate to question someone who goes running off to the press to leak something about someone famous. The debate that should be had and which I've seen a bit of happening elsewhere is whether this is something we should know about in this circumstance. The leakers claim is that it is due to him running for PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 23 minutes ago, Harvsky said: Once they went to the Guardian after nothing was found there was scope for questioning because that's not in the remit of "best course action" on domestic abuse. Henceforth the reporting that you raised which we are talking about has a very different context to that which you are trying to box it into to defeat. It plants enough doubt to have a polling implication regardless of past character. Timing is everything. The decision to go to the Guardian and the Guardian to print it is purely political. It's there in the leakers argument as to why he did it. It's perfectly legitimate to question someone who goes running off to the press to leak something about someone famous. The debate that should be had and which I've seen a bit of happening elsewhere is whether this is something we should know about in this circumstance. The leakers claim is that it is due to him running for PM. Calling the police, and sending out the recording are two separate incidents. Can you please just agree that if you hear a man and a woman shouting next door, banging, and you can't get an answer at the door, you should call the police? Nothing about what happens after, or is revealed about the figures involved, alters that fact, and it stands alone as completely blameless conduct by the neighbours. As for the later action of sending the recording, I really do not see what argument there is for condemning a citizen, possessing a recording, legally made, which is of potential public interest, sharing that with a journalist who is then free to use their discretion to report on it or not. Citizens do have a right to raise concerns with journalists, and journalists do have the right to report on stories brought to them about major public figures. It's not a leak in any sense. The only "leak" was Johnson and his partner shouting so loud that it could be heard beyond their own flat. You can keep mis-labelling it as defamation or a leak or whatever you like but it doesn't change the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, Inverted said: Calling the police, and sending out the recording are two separate incidents. Can you please just agree that if you hear a man and a woman shouting next door, banging, and you can't get an answer at the door, you should call the police? Nothing about what happens after, or is revealed about the figures involved, alters that fact, and it stands alone as completely blameless conduct by the neighbours. As for the later action of sending the recording, I really do not see what argument there is for condemning a citizen, possessing a recording, legally made, which is of potential public interest, sharing that with a journalist who is then free to use their discretion to report on it or not. Citizens do have a right to raise concerns with journalists, and journalists do have the right to report on stories brought to them about major public figures. It's not a leak in any sense. The only "leak" was Johnson and his partner shouting so loud that it could be heard beyond their own flat. You can keep mis-labelling it as defamation or a leak or whatever you like but it doesn't change the argument. When I engaged in this conversation it was to question the claim that journalists were going bazurk at the idea of calling the police. I'm not interested in discussing what I personally think is right or wrong for the couple to do. On things like this opinions are for arseholes, everyone has one. I entered on the grounds of exploring whether your view of others is an accurate representation of them and whether the space for legitimate takes to exist is there, rather than the do everything as I say talking shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 I agree on one thing... Whatever Boris did or didn’t do in his own home (it’s for his girlfriend to decide what actions to take and she can look at his previous for info on that) and not for people to judge even though he is a public figure going for the maximum office in the land. Boris already has enough proven bullshit from his professional track record to judge him on. The amount of lies and deception in his professional history is a catalogue of varying choice. Hence why he NEEDS to win this race! They’re both crap and both will eventually bring the same outcome, only that with Boris it’ll be more entertaining, enjoyable, chaotic and 100% assured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted June 23, 2019 Administrator Share Posted June 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, SirBalon said: I agree on one thing... Whatever Boris did or didn’t do in his own home (it’s for his girlfriend to decide what actions to take and she can look at his previous for info on that) and not for people to judge even though he is a public figure going for the maximum office in the land. Boris already has enough proven bullshit from his professional track record to judge him on. The amount of lies and deception in his professional history is a catalogue of varying choice. Hence why he NEEDS to win this race! They’re both crap and both will eventually bring the same outcome, only that with Boris it’ll be more entertaining, enjoyable, chaotic and 100% assured. Assured? Really? And how can it be chaotic and assured at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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