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Scotland and Independence

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In the light of a possible UK exit from the European Union (known as Brexit), the shout for a new Scottish Independence from the UK vote gets stronger and louder. Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon is leading the movement in a very strong and voiciferous manner and has warned on many occasions that she wants her nation heard seeing as they overwhelmingly voted to remain in the EU. They would be being dragged out by England and that seems to have swayed sentiments that were once in the balance with unionism a while back.

I'll start this new thread for updates and debates on this subject with Sturgeon's latest Tweet...

 

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FREEEEEEEE SCOOOOOTTLLLAAAANNDD !

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR6ruDTJL5AI0X4HJeHhw-

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Plaid Cymru pretty much want to do the same thing for Wales if they get into power, basically wanting independence from the UK and then join the EU. 

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What's the relative economic flows between Scotland and England compared to Scotland and Europe?

I'd imagine it would be a pretty damaging economic blow to the UK to lose them if it did happen. Similar to Australia losing one of the mining states  to independence which put a lot of coin into the government coffers that enable vital services elsewhere... This is assuming Scotland are still generating some good exports via oil and gas supplies.

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I don't think it makes much sense economically, and I think nationalism is stupid in principle, but I sincerely can't guarantee that the English won't drag us into proper Hungary or Turkey-style authoritarianism in my lifetime, so I'd say separating us from them is the safe option. 

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8 minutes ago, Inverted said:

I don't think it makes much sense economically, and I think nationalism is stupid in principle, but I sincerely can't guarantee that the English won't drag us into proper Hungary or Turkey-style authoritarianism in my lifetime, so I'd say separating us from them is the safe option. 

Will it trigger Wales and N Ireland to do the same ?

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5 minutes ago, Stick With Azeem said:

Will it trigger Wales and N Ireland to do the same ?

What we're guaranteed with Nothern Irleand is a hell of alot of unrest and hopefully not to the extent the problem once was. I would say in the end yes with Northern Ireland. Wales will take longer until those in the valleys come to the realisation that it wasn't the EU that failed them (quite the opposite), it was successive British Governments.

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8 minutes ago, Stick With Azeem said:

Will it trigger Wales and N Ireland to do the same ?

Northern Ireland clings to Britain out of a misplaced sense of loyalty to a crown that doesn't care; well, half the population do. Although Irish unificiation is the romantic idea, I'm not sure it would be a good idea now and bloodshed would surely ensure. Northern Ireland becoming an independent state of its own is more likely but the Unionist cause is strongest there than anywhere else.

I don't think Wales have the desire for independence, it is smaller than Scotland and though it's identity is fiercely different from the English, they do overlap in many areas. It's nationalist parties don't have the same popularity as the SNP.

As for Scotland. It's a great place, would be very sad to see it go and I do have reservations about the SNP but you can't really begrudge them getting off from the madness that Little England is bestowing on the United Kingdom.

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Presumably an independent Scotland would rejoin the EU?

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7 hours ago, Harry said:

Presumably an independent Scotland would rejoin the EU?

Well they did vote to stay and they're making a pretty big fuss about being dragged out by England. Let's all not forget the Gibralterians in all of this... They're in dire straits over the whole issue having voted 90%+ to stay in and they're stuck to Spain with Spain consistently searching to attach them back to the peninsula.

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8 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Let the English vote on it, we’ll soon fuck the sponging cunts off. 

xDxDxD

Tell us how you really feel

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9 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Let the English vote on it, we’ll soon fuck the sponging cunts off. 

Would you also vote to cut off your nose to spite your face?

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10 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Let the English vote on it, we’ll soon fuck the sponging cunts off. 

Rich from a fucking Brummy where the unemployed rate is almost double Scotland's.

You've not got anything more fun to do in that cesspit than show everyone online how thick you are? 

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22 hours ago, Harry said:

Would you also vote to cut off your nose to spite your face?

Lol mate in Australia it may be perceived that Scotland is important, in reality it’s really not. 

 

21 hours ago, Inverted said:

Rich from a fucking Brummy where the unemployed rate is almost double Scotland's.

You've not got anything more fun to do in that cesspit than show everyone online how thick you are? 

Lol I was fishing tbh I don’t mind the Scots, although you do get too good a deal from England. Anyway as you’ve bitten let’s have at it. 

Given Birmingham has been staunch labour for 30 years and the Tories are the death of the country why haven’t 30 years of lefty politics solved it? 

Edited by Fairy In Boots

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3 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Lol mate in Australia it may be perceived that Scotland is important, in reality it’s really not. 

Was it significant for the USSR when these unimportant offshoot states opted out?

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7 hours ago, Harry said:

Was it significant for the USSR when these unimportant offshoot states opted out?

Different circumstances though it was imploding from within anyway, if it was stable would somewhere as important as say Georgia have toppled it? Nah. 

 

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6 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Different circumstances though it was imploding from within anyway, if it was stable would somewhere as important as say Georgia have toppled it? Nah. 

That's not what will be happening in the UK in 5-10 years time? 

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20 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Wait the UK is stable?

Indeed, the UK is a stable mate. But in it instead of horses, there’s snake oil salesmen evading their fiscal duties amongst other things.

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4 hours ago, Harry said:

That's not what will be happening in the UK in 5-10 years time? 

Of course not, we’ll be laughing at Scotland 

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Wait the UK is stable?

Grows more quickly than the EU and record low unemployment. It doesn’t fit with the Brexit is chaos narrative though 

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5 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

 

Of course not, we’ll be laughing at Scotland 

Grows more quickly than the EU and record low unemployment. It doesn’t fit with the Brexit is chaos narrative though 

We haven’t had a normally operating government in years because of incompetent leaders. Not exactly a stable government.

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12 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Different circumstances though it was imploding from within anyway, if it was stable would somewhere as important as say Georgia have toppled it? Nah. 

 

USSR is not really comparable since the core state made up only half of its union's population, whereas England makes up like 90% of Britain's. Still, even if we're not exactly the size of a Ukraine, no major country can shrug off 10% of its population and its 2nd/3rd richest region buggering off, particularly one with the ambition of global relevance that Britain has.

But yeah I'm sure everyone in those post-industrial slagheaps north of the M25 will be laughing their heads off whilst they drift further into irrelevance to London's benefit.

 

vt1t28wizr211.jpg

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West Wales is very generic in that pic and I'm sure that the surrounding valleys are worse off as well. 

I always had Cornwall as the opposite as well. 

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20 minutes ago, Bluebird Hewitt said:

West Wales is very generic in that pic and I'm sure that the surrounding valleys are worse off as well. 

I always had Cornwall as the opposite as well. 

Oddly enough I thought the same about Cornwall for ages. 

I think it's the fact it's in the South and quite popular for holidays makes you think it's just like a Devon or a Dorset. 

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Your instincts might not be wrong. Quality of life is probably better in Cornwall than inner London which came 1st. It's an old defunct chart that keeps resurfacing in social media circles. It makes for good propoganda, first surfacing in Labour circles and now PV. Here's a fact check article on why it is flawed.

https://fullfact.org/economy/does-uk-have-poorest-regions-northern-europe/

 

On 20/06/2019 at 10:59, Inverted said:

I don't think it makes much sense economically, and I think nationalism is stupid in principle, but I sincerely can't guarantee that the English won't drag us into proper Hungary or Turkey-style authoritarianism in my lifetime, so I'd say separating us from them is the safe option. 

If you like the idea of seeing Scotland as a separate and unified entity responsible only for its own actions in UK decision making, we can use that thinking to state that the reason Corbyn isn't Prime Minister right now is the swing towards the Conservatives in Scotland :ph34r:

Tell us again about how Scotland overwhelmingly voted remain and then delivered a Tory Brexit at the GE :ph34r:

The "English" People's Vote fans hijacking indyref2 on their social media accounts could do with a lesson in how tactically the SNP's indy shouting is a disease upon their cause by driving people to the Tory party in Scotland :ph34r:

 

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15 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

We haven’t had a normally operating government in years because of incompetent leaders. Not exactly a stable government.

The Tories have actually done a ok job but have been atrocious at PR and entirely unrelatable.

Brexit negotiations have been a fiasco but that because you’ve got a room full of Sir Balon’s trying to secure an exit from a trading block that they mistakenly believe is the be all and end all. Remainers are fairly ignorant of how much they’ve weakened our hand in negotiations  with their constant hissy fits. 

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35 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

The Tories have actually done a ok job but have been atrocious at PR and entirely unrelatable.

Brexit negotiations have been a fiasco but that because you’ve got a room full of Sir Balon’s trying to secure an exit from a trading block that they mistakenly believe is the be all and end all. Remainers are fairly ignorant of how much they’ve weakened our hand in negotiations  with their constant hissy fits. 

Hahaha...

Go on, have a go.

How could negotiations have gone better with the red lines drawn?

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