Will the majority of people be struggling in life

[MUFC]

In the next 15 years? Going from the economy, stores closing galore etc. Surely at this rate a large portion of the population will be struggling to make ends meet?

[Dr. Gonzo]

Yeah probably

[Inverted]

The previous ideal in the Western world of owning your home and being guaranteed pretty decent job stability from middle-age onward will be gone if things carry on as they are. 

Whether people will be struggling or not will depend on whether as a society we adjust to that and protect job-seekers, strengthen employees rights, and enforce rent controls, or whether we keep on with the current model where the people who own all the housing and hold all the employment opportunities keep making all the decisions. 

[Cicero]

There is a built in idea that if you go to college, a £60,000 job will be waiting for you as soon as you graduate. Which couldn't be further from the truth. 

So you get a loan to pay for the ridiculous tuition rates universities charge, you then get a degree in some major you were probably misguided into pursuing, graduate with a tremendous amount in debt, only to find out no one wants to hire you because either A. Your major has no demand or B. you have no experience. Internships in your particular field are hard to come by, and pay very little for those that have to provide for a family.  So you just sit there. Unemployed and £30-80,000 in debt. And the Universities? They don't give a shit about you. As soon as you graduate, you are the world's problem. 

 

 

[Harry]

Life has always been a struggle. In every age of history. Only the 1950's were easy.

 

[nudge+]

1 hour ago, Cicero said:

There is a built in idea that if you go to college, a £60,000 job will be waiting for you as soon as you graduate. Which couldn't be further from the truth. 

So you get a loan to pay for the ridiculous tuition rates universities charge, you then get a degree in some major you were probably misguided into pursuing, graduate with a tremendous amount in debt, only to find out no one wants to hire you because either A. Your major has no demand or B. you have no experience. Internships in your particular field are hard to come by, and pay very little for those that have to provide for a family.  So you just sit there. Unemployed and £30-80,000 in debt. And the Universities? They don't give a shit about you. As soon as you graduate, you are the world's problem. 

That's mostly a US problem (UK too?) and not applicable to many other countries though. Most countries in Europe have low tuition fees for EU nationals - or none at all. Personally, I got my Bachelor's and my Master's in two different countries (Bachelor's was free, Master's cost me 1500€ in total) and don't have any debts whatsoever. Quite on a contrary, I actually saved money while I was studying as I was also working two jobs and got scholarship as well...

 

[nudge+]

As for the original question, I think the aging population and the looming retirement/social security crisis will be the biggest issue in the next 30 years or so. As long as you're young(ish) and healthy, there's always a way to make ends meet. Vulnerable social groups will most likely become further disadvantages and will struggle more in upcoming years.

[CaaC (John)+]

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Life has always been a struggle. In every age of history. Only the 1950s were easy.

 

It was really as there was still rationing around after WWII but our parents and other parents where we lived got the knack of just getting on with life and cope with what we had and it worked, things were tight mind you and we scrapped by but parents never moaned and just thanked God the war was over.

As I have mentioned before in here on various posts our parents had nine of us, me and my brother and 7 girls, I was lucky if I got a Beano or Dandy comic for Christmas and a couple of puzzles and a load of fruit, but we were all happy and just got on with life as I said.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Cicero said:

There is a built in idea that if you go to college, a £60,000 job will be waiting for you as soon as you graduate. Which couldn't be further from the truth. 

So you get a loan to pay for the ridiculous tuition rates universities charge, you then get a degree in some major you were probably misguided into pursuing, graduate with a tremendous amount in debt, only to find out no one wants to hire you because either A. Your major has no demand or B. you have no experience. Internships in your particular field are hard to come by, and pay very little for those that have to provide for a family.  So you just sit there. Unemployed and £30-80,000 in debt. And the Universities? They don't give a shit about you. As soon as you graduate, you are the world's problem. 

 

 

Tbf if a student got a degree in something that’s not going to get you a job in this economy, that’s that own student’s fault for not researching what the economy was like and what’s in demand. Far too many students go to uni because “that’s what you do,” study something “they want to study” - even though it’s not going to help them get a career, and then wonder why the fuck they only can get a job at the places they could have worked had they not gone to uni.

Source: my bitter arse friends.

At least our student loans are nowhere near as bad as America’s.

[Cicero]

10 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Tbf if a student got a degree in something that’s not going to get you a job in this economy, that’s that own student’s fault for not researching what the economy was like and what’s in demand. Far too many students go to uni because “that’s what you do,” study something “they want to study” - even though it’s not going to help them get a career, and then wonder why the fuck they only can get a job at the places they could have worked had they not gone to uni.

Source: my bitter arse friends.

At least our student loans are nowhere near as bad as America’s.

But that is part of the issue. There is an ideology built that as soon as you graduate, a career is waiting for you. 

A. Why is a student so misguided, that they are pursuing a degree that either doesn't have a demand or is completely useless, like Lesbian dance theory? This goes back to primary education or just poor upbringing. 

B. Why are Universities offering these useless degrees and at the same time charging ridiculous tuition rates? 

The student debt crises is the main reason why so many young adults can't get ahead in life. I have a few mates who got their bachelors in business, but can't land a job because they lack experience. They can't get an internship either because they don't pay well to make a living. So they are stuck in regular sales jobs earning peanuts, whilst at the same time paying off their ridiculous student loan debt. 

If Universities actually gave a shit about you, they would either co-sign your student loan and/or get rid of these useless majors whilst at the same time making it a requirement to have internship/apprentice credit's before you graduate. As the only way to really make it is to have experience alongside your diploma. 

[nudge+]

14 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Tbf if a student got a degree in something that’s not going to get you a job in this economy, that’s that own student’s fault for not researching what the economy was like and what’s in demand. Far too many students go to uni because “that’s what you do,” study something “they want to study” - even though it’s not going to help them get a career, and then wonder why the fuck they only can get a job at the places they could have worked had they not gone to uni.

Source: my bitter arse friends.

At least our student loans are nowhere near as bad as America’s.

I agree but I'd say that part of responsibility also goes to parents and high schools who should provide better guidance to 18-19 year olds with a lack of life experience.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Cicero said:

But that is part of the issue. There is an ideology built that as soon as you graduate, a career is waiting for you. 

A. Why is a student so misguided, that they are pursuing a degree that either doesn't have a demand or is completely useless, like Lesbian dance theory? This goes back to primary education or just poor upbringing. 

B. Why are Universities offering these useless degrees and at the same time charging ridiculous tuition rates? 

The student debt crises is the main reason why so many young adults can't get ahead in life. I have a few mates who got their bachelors in business, but can't land a job because they lack experience. They can't get an internship either because they don't pay well to make a living. So they are stuck in regular sales jobs earning peanuts, whilst at the same time paying off their ridiculous student loan debt. 

If Universities actually gave a shit about you, they would either co-sign your student loan and/or get rid of these useless majors whilst at the same time making it a requirement to have internship/apprentice credit's before you graduate. As the only way to really make it is to have experience alongside your diploma. 

In America, the government and the universities are to blame with saddling young people with debt and making them wage slaves barely able to survive paycheck to paycheck.

Almost every student takes out student loans each year to pay for tuition. Tuition rises at a yearly rate of higher than inflation. The government issues out loans to cover the costs each year though. So each year until they graduate, American students take on more and more debt.

A big part of the issue is that the US and UK deliberately shifted to abandon manufacturing industries to make these countries service economies. This pushed more people into universities - it devalues a university education when everyone is going to school and an increasing amount of graduates don’t have job prospects when they’re done with school.

In a more ideal world, less kids would be going to uni and more would be going to get trade schools or apprenticeships (like my dad offers to young people who want to be bakers). But less people are inclined to do that sort of work, for whatever reason. They see it as beneath them because they believe the lie that they just need to go to uni and they’ll get a “good job.”

8 minutes ago, nudge said:

I agree but I'd say that part of responsibility also goes to parents and high schools who should provide better guidance to 18-19 year olds with a lack of life experience.

I agree with that as well, but even 18-19 year olds with a lack of life experience have access to google and can figure out whether what they study is going to be useful or not.

There’s many people to blame

[Azeem]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

 

I agree with that as well, but even 18-19 year olds with a lack of life experience have access to google and can figure out whether what they study is going to be useful or not.

There’s many people to blame

No matter how much guidance you get but professional life is always very different than what you learn in university.

[Cicero]

19 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

In America, the government and the universities are to blame with saddling young people with debt and making them wage slaves barely able to survive paycheck to paycheck.

Almost every student takes out student loans each year to pay for tuition. Tuition rises at a yearly rate of higher than inflation. The government issues out loans to cover the costs each year though. So each year until they graduate, American students take on more and more debt.

A big part of the issue is that the US and UK deliberately shifted to abandon manufacturing industries to make these countries service economies. This pushed more people into universities - it devalues a university education when everyone is going to school and an increasing amount of graduates don’t have job prospects when they’re done with school.

In a more ideal world, less kids would be going to uni and more would be going to get trade schools or apprenticeships (like my dad offers to young people who want to be bakers). But less people are inclined to do that sort of work, for whatever reason. They see it as beneath them because they believe the lie that they just need to go to uni and they’ll get a “good job.”

I agree with that as well, but even 18-19 year olds with a lack of life experience have access to google and can figure out whether what they study is going to be useful or not.

There’s many people to blame

Universities know that the government will provide these loans. To anyone. Hence why Universities charge such ridiculous rates and school administrators are earning the same salary as fucking doctors. 

Take for example why business degrees are becoming redundant. 

- You don't want to learn a trade, like an electrician, because you were taught that you will only have a good life if you go to Uni. 

- You get a loan to pay off the ridiculous student loan fee. 

- You graduate with a degree in marketing, and £40,000 in debt. 

- You apply for marketing jobs, but get declined every time because you don't have marketing experience. Making your marketing degree practically worthless on it's own. 

- Do you get a marketing internship that pays less than minimum wage, or nothing at all? Or do you get a regular sales job that doesn't help you move forward at all? 

- Life passing you away, with nothing but your student loan debt with ever increasing interest rates, waiting for you. 

It's so fucked. 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

23 minutes ago, Stick With Azeem said:

No matter how much guidance you get but professional life is always very different than what you learn in university.

Yeah but we’re talking about guidance given to young people when before they’ve gone to uni and even taken the first steps toward their professional life. Enough people clearly aren’t given guidance on what to study so that they can ensure they’re working towards a career rather than working towards doing a job they didn’t need to go to uni for.

 

23 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Universities know that the government will provide these loans. To anyone. Hence why Universities charge such ridiculous rates and school administrators are earning the same salary as fucking doctors. 

Take for example why business degrees are becoming redundant. 

- You don't want to learn a trade, like an electrician, because you were taught that you will only have a good life if you go to Uni. 

- You get a loan to pay off the ridiculous student loan fee. 

- You graduate with a degree in marketing, and £40,000 in debt. 

- You apply for marketing jobs, but get declined every time because you don't have marketing experience. Making your marketing degree practically worthless on it's own. 

- Do you get a marketing internship that pays less than minimum wage, or nothing at all? Or do you get a regular sales job that doesn't help you move forward at all? 

- Life passing you away, with nothing but your student loan debt with ever increasing interest rates, waiting for you. 

It's so fucked. 

 

That’s what happens when you go into a saturated field.

It is fucked, but it’s part of a larger problem when we’ve got too many uni grads in fields that don’t have enough entry level jobs for graduates. You can’t protect against it unless uni’s start drastically lowering their admission rates for particular subjects. There’s too many uni grads in a lot of fields for how many jobs there are.

And part of the problem in the US is that there are so many fucking schools, some of them should probably be closed down permanently tbh. Again, because there’s people going to uni when there aren’t going to be jobs for them when they graduate.

But because we’ve substantially reduced the number of manufacturing jobs in the US and UK, that’s basically telling large numbers of the population “you don’t get the life that was promised to you by previous generations.” Granted, it’s more honest than telling them they’ll get the life that was promised to them and then they graduate with a mountain of debt and the same career prospects before they graduated.

I’ll say this again though, because thank god it’s true, but at least we don’t have anywhere near as much student loan debt as Americans.

[Inverted]

I think there is a problem with student expectations, but there is also a problem of societal expectation. 

For most older people I know, it's odd to them if people don't immediately have a job relevant to their degree after graduating. If you have to work a more menial job for a few years before a relevant job appears, you will be judged very heavily. And with the way the job market is, that's very unfair. 

For example my class at uni was a law class at the best law faculty in Scotland. In terms of employability, we had it about as good as you can get. Most of us picked law because we didn't want to do something artsy with bad job prospects 

But only 2/3rds of my year had a job lined up at graduation. I'm lucky enough to a have role lined up with a good firm, and even that's delayed a year, because places are so limited. 

I don't know if students have unrealistic expectations, or if they're just desperate to fulfil the unrealistic expectations put on them by people around them. 

[Toinho]

I’d argue the majority of the world is already struggling. 

[Berserker]

As i see it there are only 2 possibilities by 2040 or so with the way technology is replacing so many workers. 

Middle Class will cease to exist, there will be a small amount of rich people, less than 10% and then the vast majority will be very poor, i'm talking African, Venezuelan, NK, old China level of poor.

Or, there will be the rich, and then the vast majority will live off benefits.

[Toinho]

11 hours ago, Berserker said:

As i see it there are only 2 possibilities by 2040 or so with the way technology is replacing so many workers. 

Middle Class will cease to exist, there will be a small amount of rich people, less than 10% and then the vast majority will be very poor, i'm talking African, Venezuelan, NK, old China level of poor.

Or, there will be the rich, and then the vast majority will live off benefits.

Think you’ve described USA in 2019. 

[MUFC]

On 23/06/2019 at 21:03, MUFC said:

In the next 15 years? Going from the economy, stores closing galore etc. Surely at this rate a large portion of the population will be struggling to make ends meet?

Didn't want my prophecy to fucking come true.