Euro 2020 Qualifiers - Group A - Matchday 6

[Machado]

[Dan+]

15 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

Couple of fist pumps maybe? Pats on the back? You’d have thought they’d won the Euros.

Czech Republic aren’t minnows mate. They’re obviously not what they used to be, but let’s not pretend they’re a poor footballing nation.

That result has basically put them through in a group where it was in the balance. Kosovo now need to beat England and win in Czech Republic for Czech Republic to not qualify.

Yeah it's not the biggest moment in their history by any stretch but that's a big win for them.

[Michael]

2 minutes ago, Machado said:

Machado is it past the watershed where you are? It had better be, lol.

[Dan+]

25 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I definitely think we have improved under Southgate. But I still think we will loose against the first big nation we play in the euros unless we don't get a good team until the semis. Think we would have a good chance at Wembley though

We've gone a bit backwards recently though I think. I just can't escape the idea that our improvement is because of the players coming through at club level rather than anything Southgate's done. Kane's emerged into a top striker at club level, Sancho's emerged out of nowhere really after having the balls to leave England, Sterling's stepped up massively under Guardiola. That's a front three that'll likely see us beat most of the dross without any tactical masterplan anyway. He's inherited an excellent attack.

The things that you can put more on him and the coaching, organisation, how well the team plays together, are all things that are lacking. Defensively we're all over the place. The midfield doesn't really seem to offer anything.

The Kosovo game last month was a good example of what I mean - a shambles of a performance where the front three bailed us out.

To simplify I think most of the positives are because of our personnel and most of our negatives are because of the management. Southgate did well in the World Cup but he's beginning to get a bit shown up, and I think the majority will have turned after Euro 2020.

 

21 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

That defending for the Czech's second was fucking appalling. Pickford, Rose, Maguire... what the fuck was that?

It was absolutely horrendous. They managed to mark basically everywhere that they didn't need to.

[Machado]

7 minutes ago, Michael said:

Machado is it past the watershed where you are? It had better be, lol.

It did not look like a fun moment for at least one of them.

[RandoEFC+]

Keane getting slated and maybe rightly so but I really dont see what Maguire has done so much better than him in the last 2-3 England internationals yet you barely hear a word about it.

Fact is the pair of them should be competing over one slot. You can't play two central defenders that lack pace and also try and play progressive football. You need someone like Gomez to partner either Maguire or Keane. I agree that Rose has never been anything more than solid and while Chilwell may not be the finished article I'd definitely prefer to see him in at left back.

It wasnt just the defence tonight though. We had no control of the midfield and there was no creativity from that area of the pitch either. Henderson was poor by his standards and I'm yet to see what Rice has to offer in an England shirt.

[Stan]

1 hour ago, shut up said:

Rob holding and callum chambers are both better than michael Keane.  Hope emery gives them chances to prove it

You are joking right? 

If this is who England are going to rely on to make it as a successful nation with a solid defence, I despair. 

[Smiley Culture]

Keane is wank but Maguire has been poor too, though he’s a media/fan favourite so gets off lighter. We’re very short in that area of the pitch at the minute. Would like to see Gomez start Monday. 

[Dan+]

Maguire's always gotten away with it because he's a popular character. It's why I knew we'd get a shit load more than he's worth for him.

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Keane getting slated and maybe rightly so but I really dont see what Maguire has done so much better than him in the last 2-3 England internationals yet you barely hear a word about it.

Fact is the pair of them should be competing over one slot. You can't play two central defenders that lack pace and also try and play progressive football. You need someone like Gomez to partner either Maguire or Keane. I agree that Rose has never been anything more than solid and while Chilwell may not be the finished article I'd definitely prefer to see him in at left back.

It wasnt just the defence tonight though. We had no control of the midfield and there was no creativity from that area of the pitch either. Henderson was poor by his standards and I'm yet to see what Rice has to offer in an England shirt.

I agree with this. Keane's getting slated, but Maguire's definitely culpable for the goal that gave the Czechs the winner (granted so are Pickford and Rose... that was just abysmal). The Keane-Maguire partnership just doesn't work; I think Maguire's probably got to keep his place considering his world cup heroics but... that partnership just needs to end. Rose has been crap for a while now, Chilwell's not the finished article but it makes sense to give him a shot and see if he can be less crap for England than Rose.

The midfield was dogshit. Like you, I don't see the point in playing Rice for England - he's not ready imo. Also there's no point in playing both Henderson and Rice. At least not in the group stages. But overall that midfield was just crap. And if the midfield's crap, the front 3 will suffer for it as well.

On the one hand, I commend Southgate's loyalty to the players he's picked.  On the other hand, it seems strange he's persisted with some things that seem like they obviously aren't working. Having said that, it's our first qualifier loss in 10 years so it's clearly not been all that bad for us (granted, we play against a lot of shite in qualifiers).

[Machado]

I like Henderson but that's poor.

 

[Dan+]

66% in a midfield three is horrendous. Henderson's always had has limitations but Klopp's done a fantastic job of covering them up with his set up.

It doesn't help having both him and Rice. Looking more like Dier and Henderson every game.

Problem with Henderson is I don't feel like he's really a holding midfielder. If you could trust him a bit more defensively I'd go him Maddison and Mount as a three but I think Rice probably comes in for him by default.

Maddison can play in a three. He's been at his best for Leicester in a midfield trio of Ndidi, him and Tielemans. I'd like to see England try a hybrid of that because it's a genuinely good midfeld that works well.

[Michael]

3 minutes ago, Dan said:

We've gone a bit backwards recently though I think. I just can't escape the idea that our improvement is because of the players coming through at club level rather than anything Southgate's done. Kane's emerged into a top striker at club level, Sancho's emerged out of nowhere really after having the balls to leave England, Sterling's stepped up massively under Guardiola. That's a front three that'll likely see us beat most of the dross without any tactical masterplan anyway. He's inherited an excellent attack.

The things that you can put more on him and the coaching, organisation, how well the team plays together, are all things that are lacking. Defensively we're all over the place. The midfield doesn't really seem to offer anything.

The Kosovo game last month was a good example of what I mean - a shambles of a performance where the front three bailed us out.

To simplify I think most of the positives are because of our personnel and most of our negatives are because of the management. Southgate did well in the World Cup but he's beginning to get a big shown up, and I think the majority will have turned after Euro 2020.

 

It was absolutely horrendous. They managed to mark basically everywhere that they didn't need to.

Yes, as I said earlier that front 3 are world class and like you suggested, have gotten England wins against lesser opposition when the team as a whole haven't played too well. But I wouldn't get too worried right now as an England fan. Like a lot of the other national teams, Southgate has experimented a bit in a group that England were always favorites to win or at least qualify from. 

England were very good at the World Cup, they haven't suddenly become crap. I am sure Southgate will get the formula of the team right come the Euros. Two players for example who didn't play tonight, but who have really impressed me are Trent Alexander-Arnold and Loftus Cheek. They, along with Sancho, have really emerged over the last year and a half as class players. I'd expect them to play a significant role for England at the World Cup. 

Despite Declan Rice's poor performance tonight, I also expect him to hopefully improve. He's looked good at club level and hopefully with a few more appearances for England, he can show his club form.

In conclusion, we all know that England are going to qualify. Southgate has time to figure out his best team and I am sure he will line up a good side in an effective formation come the Euros.

 

[Fairy In Boots]

But Southgate took us to the semis, how can this happen he’s the best manager in the world. 

Or he’s naff and we’re only good at beating shite

[Michael]

5 minutes ago, Machado said:

I like Henderson but that's poor.

 

Maybe he's having 2nd thoughts about representing England, maybe his heart is still with the Emerald Isle, lol.

Jokes aside, Rice was very poor tonight which surprised me, because he has been doing well at club level. The whole midfield was poor and were overrun for most of the game. Hopefully it was just an off day and that Rice starts performing like we have seen he can for West Ham. I've never been a big fan of Henderson to be honest. He's good, but he's never been outstanding. I feel that he's been fortunate to play alongside so many classy players at Liverpool.  

[Guest]

Not sure I agree with you @Dan  I think the England team are much more utd under him. Man management is more important at international level I think. I don't think he's a tactical genius by any means but I think the problem we have with defending is because we don't have good enough defenders. That's my opinion anyway 

[Michael]

Interesting stat is that England's starting midfield and attack had an average age of 23 years old, while the Czechs midfield and attack had an average of 24.3 years old. So there were two young teams out there on the field tonight. Southgate seems to be trying to blood young players like Mount and Rice, to give them more experience of playing for England.

 

[Dan+]

1 hour ago, Michael said:

Yes, as I said earlier that front 3 are world class and like you suggested, have gotten England wins against lesser opposition when the team as a whole haven't played too well. But I wouldn't get too worried right now as an England fan. Like a lot of the other national teams, Southgate has experimented a bit in a group that England were always favorites to win or at least qualify from. 

England were very good at the World Cup, they haven't suddenly become crap. I am sure Southgate will get the formula of the team right come the Euros. Two players for example who didn't play tonight, but who have really impressed me are Trent Alexander-Arnold and Loftus Cheek. They, along with Sancho, have really emerged over the last year and a half as class players. I'd expect them to play a significant role for England at the World Cup. 

Despite Declan Rice's poor performance tonight, I also expect him to hopefully improve. He's looked good at club level and hopefully with a few more appearances for England, he can show his club form.

In conclusion, we all know that England are going to qualify. Southgate has time to figure out his best team and I am sure he will line up a good side in an effective formation come the Euros.

Were England that good at the World Cup? Don't get me wrong it was a significant improvement on the toss served up under Hodgson and Capello but I thought we were OK - pretty well organised and didn't slip up against anyone we were favourites against, but ultimately came up short when met with a significant challenge. I think the draw was hugely favourable. We were good, but I wouldn't go loads above that.

In some ways losing tonight might be the wake up call we need.

In fairness as well to Southgate, it wasn't until the build up to the World Cup that I started picking up any optimism in him or the team, so it's not too late to change it. Right now though I think we're sleepwalking to a poor tournament.

[Michael]

3 minutes ago, Dan said:

Were England that good at the World Cup? Don't get me wrong it was a significant improvement on the toss served up under Hodgson and Capello but I thought we were OK - pretty well organised and didn't slip up against anyone we were favourites against, but ultimately came up short when met with a significant challenge. I think the draw was hugely favourable. We were good, but I wouldn't go loads above that.

In some ways losing tonight might be the wake up call we need.

In fairness as well to Southgate, it wasn't until the build up to the World Cup that I started picking up any optimism in him or the team, so it's not too late to change it. Right now though I think we're sleepwalking to a poor tournament.

Teams like France, Germany and Brazil are much better than England right now in my opinion, as their squads have so much depth. I'd even probably put the Netherlands and Spain above England right now and maybe a few other teams as well. But I do think that England can come up with a very strong starting 11, maybe not the best, but a very strong one nonetheless. I think that Southgate just has to find the right players and play them to their strengths in the right formation.

I agree that England were good at the World Cup, but not amazing or anything. But they have now added an extra world class player to their squad in Sancho. How many other national teams can boast a world class front line like Sancho, Kane and Sterling? Only a few and those teams are like the very elite national teams. I believe that the players that Southgate now has at his disposal, make the current England team potentially better than the squad that went to the World Cup. As several new young players have emerged to stake their claim in the England national team.

It's way too early to predict that England will have a poor Euros in my opinion. There's still so much time left for Southgate to find the right formula for England. Tonight was a poor performance, but it was away in Central/Eastern Europe against a tricky team. These results happen to even the best national teams now and then. Southgate would of taken note of a lot of things and I believe it's all part of his homework in preparation for the Euros. I am sure that England will play as good or even potentially better than they did at the last World Cup, when the Euros come round. 

 

[Dan+]

29 minutes ago, Michael said:

Teams like France, Germany and Brazil are much better than England right now in my opinion, as their squads have so much depth. I'd even probably put the Netherlands and Spain above England right now and maybe a few other teams as well. But I do think that England can come up with a very strong starting 11, maybe not the best, but a very strong one nonetheless. I think that Southgate just has to find the right players and play them to their strengths in the right formation.

I agree that England were good at the World Cup, but not amazing or anything. But they have now added an extra world class player to their squad in Sancho. How many other national teams can boast a world class front line like Sancho, Kane and Sterling? Only a few and those teams are like the very elite national teams. I believe that the players that Southgate now has at his disposal, make the current England team potentially better than the squad that went to the World Cup. As several new young players have emerged to stake their claim in the England national team.

It's way too early to predict that England will have a poor Euros in my opinion. There's still so much time left for Southgate to find the right formula for England. Tonight was a poor performance, but it was away in Central/Eastern Europe against a tricky team. These results happen to even the best national teams now and then. Southgate would of taken note of a lot of things and I believe it's all part of his homework in preparation for the Euros. I am sure that England will play as good or even potentially better than they did at the last World Cup, when the Euros come round.

The attack is what gives us any hope, but quite frankly beyond it we're awful, the midfield and defence both leave a lot to be desired. The difference with someone like Portugal or Holland is that they'll likely be well organised at the back to go with their attacking threat. England could get ripped to bits if they aren't careful. Some of the goals conceded this calendar year have been amateurish at best. That second tonight was schoolboy stuff.

It's too early to say we'll have a bad tournament, fair enough, but that's the way it will go if we don't rectify our issues. He's got to stop picking players like Rose and Keane as well. We've also got a lot of work on making this midfield work. I don't really 'get' Declan Rice. Not in an England shirt anyway.

[LFCMike]

9 hours ago, DeadLinesman said:

Imagine bringing Ross Barkley and Rashford on to try and win a game 

I've just seen the highlights and in fairness, Barkley plays a very good ball to Kane and Kane should do much better with the opportunity

[The Artful Dodger]

At least this England are involved in interesting games. Better to be good at top and shite at the back than the other way round, which is what England always were. 

[6666]

22 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said:

He's really not. Out of all the managers we have had he has made those difficult decisions more than most. He was the one who cut Rooney. 

Cutting Rooney at the time wasn't a difficult choice. He was done and Southgate didn't owe him any loyalty. Southgate is overly loyal to the players that play under him a couple of times.

[Dan+]

Rooney should've been cut before Southgate was even here to be honest. He was well past his best.

[Guest]

20 hours ago, 6666 said:

Cutting Rooney at the time wasn't a difficult choice. He was done and Southgate didn't owe him any loyalty. Southgate is overly loyal to the players that play under him a couple of times.

Like @Dan said he should have been cut before and he wasn't . Southgate was the man who cut him. I don't think its that he is being loyal or to cowardly I think he is doing what he thinks his best. Dont think any manager would have picked holding and chambers they hardly  even played this season.