tlr Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 33 minutes ago, Stan said: I'm actually planning to for a mini honeymoon next summer as going abroad is too risky Although at the moment I'm not in a covid hot-spot so should be okay... It was the last place I went before it all kicked off in March. Lovely part of the world in fairness, Cardiff is very underrated city and Snowdonia and North West Wales are as scenic as anywhere else in the UK. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted October 14, 2020 Administrator Share Posted October 14, 2020 33 minutes ago, tlr said: It was the last place I went before it all kicked off in March. Lovely part of the world in fairness, Cardiff is very underrated city and Snowdonia and North West Wales are as scenic as anywhere else in the UK. Yep went to Cardiff last November for a weekend and really enjoyed it. We're looking at mid- to North Wales for a place to just get away and enjoy what the more rural and scenic parts of Wales have to offer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Bluebird Hewitt said: Attention you horrible English cunts in Covid hotspots. You are no longer allowed to enter Wales from Friday as due to the Welsh Government's evidence that had no definitive proof that the English are spreading it further in North Wales when they go on there jollies, as well as most of Wales being in local lockdown that doesn't allow travel out of the areas apart from a list of 'reasonable excuses', you have spread Covid within Wales and should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-54540764 Have a nice day. This another one of the issues with regional lockdowns, you will end up with certain areas getting blamed or ostracised and real division growing because of it. We are a small country, it should be done nationally. If we were to be fussy then I think most of the country could say London should have been locked down right at the start of all this, but that would never happen. Manchester and Lancashire to be added to the tier 3 level tomorrow apparently. This will just go on and on until they finally do a national one again. Edited October 14, 2020 by The Artful Dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlr Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Greater Manchester up to Tier 3, London and Essex up to Tier 2 from this weekend according to the BBC. Question for those of us living under restrictions, does anyone find this more shit than the nationwide lockdown? All of the forbidden stuff without the novelty and 'all in it together' carry on; whilst people literally streets away in some cases can go to the pub with mates, etc. Depressing as fuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Greater Manchester seems to avoided tier 3, just because Burnham moans in the press loads. Either the science is there or it isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted October 15, 2020 Subscriber Share Posted October 15, 2020 The restrictions should work. The problem is that they haven't been followed properly in all of the places that have already been under restriction. I don't know what you do, the horse has bolted. People in those areas are fed up of the government's messaging. Ordered back to work one minute and put back into lockdown the next. A lot of them will feel that they could have just carried on working from home where the majority continued to be productive and then continued to have a social life. It was in the balance until schools and especially universities returned and started to drive the second wave. All of the false promises don't help either. Boris Johnson spouting off "hit and hope" quotes because he wants to be Mr Sunlit Uplands. "We'll see this virus off in 6 weeks", "We'll be back to normal by Christmas". Coming out with this stuff isn't exactly smart in the face of the massive risk of him having to then reintroduce restrictions. I honestly don't know where it ends in England. People listened to the government for months and they just haven't put the protocols in place to manage a phased return to normality. And because of Brexit and the anti-Europe identity politics that this government relied on to get into power, there's no way they're going to look at Germany and Ireland to see what they've done to keep a second wave from really kicking back off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted October 15, 2020 Administrator Share Posted October 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: The restrictions should work. The problem is that they haven't been followed properly in all of the places that have already been under restriction. I don't know what you do, the horse has bolted. People in those areas are fed up of the government's messaging. Ordered back to work one minute and put back into lockdown the next. A lot of them will feel that they could have just carried on working from home where the majority continued to be productive and then continued to have a social life. It was in the balance until schools and especially universities returned and started to drive the second wave. All of the false promises don't help either. Boris Johnson spouting off "hit and hope" quotes because he wants to be Mr Sunlit Uplands. "We'll see this virus off in 6 weeks", "We'll be back to normal by Christmas". Coming out with this stuff isn't exactly smart in the face of the massive risk of him having to then reintroduce restrictions. I honestly don't know where it ends in England. People listened to the government for months and they just haven't put the protocols in place to manage a phased return to normality. And because of Brexit and the anti-Europe identity politics that this government relied on to get into power, there's no way they're going to look at Germany and Ireland to see what they've done to keep a second wave from really kicking back off. 'world-beating Test and Trace system'. Ha. Also, regarding where it ends, I don't think it does. I've got to the point where I think I've accepted that it's just something we have to live with & tolerate (and respect?) until there's a widely-available vaccine around. Even then, who's to say or know how long the vaccine keeps you immune for? How much stock will the government buy? How long will this last and who will they prioritise? Will they even get that right? I have little faith in them managing anything correctly - I had little faith before hand and with how they've managed things since March, they've done nothing to convince me otherwise that they can turn things around any time soon. Starmer was right yesterday or Tuesday when he said that Johnson is 'behind the curve' again and acting too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMike Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird Hewitt Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Stan said: Also, regarding where it ends, I don't think it does. I've got to the point where I think I've accepted that it's just something we have to live with & tolerate (and respect?) until there's a widely-available vaccine around. Even then, who's to say or know how long the vaccine keeps you immune for? How much stock will the government buy? How long will this last and who will they prioritise? Will they even get that right? I have little faith in them managing anything correctly - I had little faith before hand and with how they've managed things since March, they've done nothing to convince me otherwise that they can turn things around any time soon. Pretty much how I feel with our lot as well. Most of Wales is under local lockdown and will likely be for some time, most likely into next year (this is the same Welsh Government that put Conwy into local lockdown on the basis of single figure cases after all). I don't think we've even had the evidence or publication from the Welsh Government to show why areas were put into lockdown, especially in North Wales. To give an idea of what our First Minister Mark Drakeford is like, here's a screenshot of his evidence showing that those in North West England have brought the virus to North Wales. This guy was previously our Health Minister and Finance Minister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted October 15, 2020 Administrator Share Posted October 15, 2020 Just adding to that evidence point - Starmer asked Johnson in last week's PMQs for evidence of why the 10pm curfew was brought in to place and the reasons for implementing it. Where the scientific evidence for it was. Has that been produced or published? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 2 hours ago, RandoEFC said: there's no way they're going to look at Germany and Ireland to see what they've done to keep a second wave from really kicking back off. Risking a commentators curse there. Daily cases are doubling every other week in both those countries right now, same rate of growth as pretty much everywhere in Europe. Ireland have around the same rate of daily cases as most regions of the UK, in some cases more, probably only less than the North West. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird Hewitt Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 (edited) Well there goes the hospitality sector in Wales, despite people saying that a circuit breaker will make little difference. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-54552761 No doubt they'll beg for more money from the UK Government when it all goes tits up and spin it once again if they don't get much, if anything at all. Edited October 15, 2020 by Bluebird Hewitt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 On 14/10/2020 at 16:39, Bluebird Hewitt said: Attention you horrible English cunts in Covid hotspots. You are no longer allowed to enter Wales from Friday as due to the Welsh Government's evidence that had no definitive proof that the English are spreading it further in North Wales when they go on there jollies, as well as most of Wales being in local lockdown that doesn't allow travel out of the areas apart from a list of 'reasonable excuses', you have spread Covid within Wales and should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-54540764 Have a nice day. They are saying it's unenforceable so we will come and go as we see fucking fit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird Hewitt Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Bluewolf said: They are saying it's unenforceable so we will come and go as we see fucking fit... Out of curiosity, who's saying that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, Bluebird Hewitt said: Out of curiosity, who's saying that? Police chiefs have warned Mark Drakeford's plan to impose a travel ban on English visitors to Wales from coronavirus hotspots is 'unenforceable'. The Welsh First Minister announced yesterday he intends to prohibit entry to people from areas with high levels of Covid-19 if Boris Johnson fails to impose UK-wide travel restrictions. But the Police Federation of England and Wales said 'policing in Wales is already over-stretched due to the pandemic' and the new measures would add 'yet another level of complexity to policing'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird Hewitt Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, Bluewolf said: Police chiefs have warned Mark Drakeford's plan to impose a travel ban on English visitors to Wales from coronavirus hotspots is 'unenforceable'. The Welsh First Minister announced yesterday he intends to prohibit entry to people from areas with high levels of Covid-19 if Boris Johnson fails to impose UK-wide travel restrictions. But the Police Federation of England and Wales said 'policing in Wales is already over-stretched due to the pandemic' and the new measures would add 'yet another level of complexity to policing'. Just had a quick Google as well and saw a fair few articles that this was unenforceable. I did mention this to my old man but he was having none of it. That's basically typical of our government really. I mentioned a few months back that the clown made it a legal requirement for all workplaces to have social distancing in place as much as reasonably practical, saying that police could come to workplaces if needed. Police responded saying that they should not be acting as work inspectors and was also unenforceable as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted October 15, 2020 Subscriber Share Posted October 15, 2020 Aren't basically all restrictions unenforceable though if enough people don't obey them? Theres only so many police, it's not like they can man mark a member of the public each. In normal times you can't even enforce speed limits. You can only pick up a minority of the most egregious offenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, Bluebird Hewitt said: Just had a quick Google as well and saw a fair few articles that this was unenforceable. I did mention this to my old man but he was having none of it. That's basically typical of our government really. I mentioned a few months back that the clown made it a legal requirement for all workplaces to have social distancing in place as much as reasonably practical, saying that police could come to workplaces if needed. Police responded saying that they should not be acting as work inspectors and was also unenforceable as well. 4 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: Aren't basically all restrictions unenforceable though if enough people don't obey them? Theres only so many police, it's not like they can man mark a member of the public each. In normal times you can't even enforce speed limits. You can only pick up a minority of the most egregious offenders. It seems like most things these decisions are rushed through with very little thought on how they will actually be implemented or enforced making them effectively worthless! I think because it's all been handled so badly from the beginning which would have been forgivable to a degree they are now all panicking about the second wave that they knew would happen and they feel they need to keep making various announcements to come across as being super pro active all the time but it just ends up being a mess... The amount of time this virus has been with us you might have expected some fairly decent cohesion across the country with a decent track and trace system in place by now as well as decent communication for the public but even after all this time it just seems so chaotic and out of control.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted October 15, 2020 Subscriber Share Posted October 15, 2020 If enough people didn't comply with the first lockdown, that would have been unenforceable as well. Because almost everyone did comply, there was enough law enforcement to pick up the stragglers. People are calling restrictions unenforceable now when just a few months back the entire country shut down. How "enforceable" would that have been if enough people didn't fancy it? That's all I'm saying. The public attitude has now shifted away from "we're all in this together" to "why should we put up with this when that city and that city can still go to the pub?" and "my neighbour had 10 people round for a barbecue last weekend and I didn't snitch on them so I'm going to go to a house party after the pub closes at 10pm tonight". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 It seems the ‘traffic light’ system is already in complete chaos, after what, 1 day? Burnham refusing to back a local lockdown for Manc, London moves up a tier after 1 day and Lancashire still arguing the toss. I agree with much of what Burnham said in his statement but he needs to be careful, he’s essentially saying a lockdown is needed but he won’t do it without everyone doing, which will look terrible if Manchester hospitals start overflowing soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted October 15, 2020 Subscriber Share Posted October 15, 2020 1 hour ago, The Artful Dodger said: It seems the ‘traffic light’ system is already in complete chaos, after what, 1 day? Burnham refusing to back a local lockdown for Manc, London moves up a tier after 1 day and Lancashire still arguing the toss. I agree with much of what Burnham said in his statement but he needs to be careful, he’s essentially saying a lockdown is needed but he won’t do it without everyone doing, which will look terrible if Manchester hospitals start overflowing soon. I thought it was more about getting financial support for the companies that were being forced to close? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 34 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: I thought it was more about getting financial support for the companies that were being forced to close? Think it’s a bit of both, government had time to implement adequate track and trace systems through the last lockdown and bolloxed it up. Feel like his message, alongside financial support, is they can’t keep failing to suppress the virus and then continually localising lockdowns because smaller economies will struggle to come back from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMike Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 So the tiers mean different things in different areas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted October 16, 2020 Administrator Share Posted October 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, LFCMike said: So the tiers mean different things in different areas? I think it was mentioned last week when the Tier level came in that local authorities will have some 'choice' on what happens in Tier 3 but it's still the strictest level so to speak. Having said that, I don't understand how gyms can stay open under Tier 3. Can't mix indoors with your own family but you can go to a place where there's a higher likelihood of transmission with other strangers in an enclosed area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMike Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, Stan said: I think it was mentioned last week when the Tier level came in that local authorities will have some 'choice' on what happens in Tier 3 but it's still the strictest level so to speak. Having said that, I don't understand how gyms can stay open under Tier 3. Can't mix indoors with your own family but you can go to a place where there's a higher likelihood of transmission with other strangers in an enclosed area Must have missed that and so did Joe Anderson by the looks of it. Doesn't surprise me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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