Manchester United Discussion

[DeadLinesman]

10 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Anyone heard about this?

 

Only just. Still rattling people in the responses, years after retiring 

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 17/02/2021 at 06:52, DeadLinesman said:

Only just. Still rattling people in the responses, years after retiring 

Yeah I can’t believe some of the idiots on twitter...

...I hate the man, because he was the villain of my childhood. At the same time I respect the hell out of him because look what he built at United.

He’s undoubtedly one of the best managers EVER. A very personal and in depth documentary is going to be fascinating.

I wish we had similar things for other past greats. Imagine Don Revie, Shankly, Paisley, Clough, etc... going over their great careers. It’d be incredible. I hope it’s good so Wenger does one too.

I’d watch a Fat Sam one though too, so maybe I’m easy to please

[ScoRoss]

On 04/01/2021 at 12:12, Stan said:

Darren Fletcher back at Man Utd as coach

 

Already been promoted to 'Technical Director'.

 

[Devil]

Disgusted at United, this new Director of football is clearly nothing other than a yes man to Woody, a suit who from what I've been reading was basically a dogs body around the place. 

I've just read he greeted Alexis Sanchez at the airport and chaperoned new Youth signing Hannibal on the United youth tour of Sweden. 

Typical United, disgusted. 

[Mpache]

Shocker from Ole.

[Stan]

Steve Bruce would be proud of that one. 

[Redcanuck]

6 hours ago, Devil said:

Disgusted at United, this new Director of football is clearly nothing other than a yes man to Woody, a suit who from what I've been reading was basically a dogs body around the place. 

I've just read he greeted Alexis Sanchez at the airport and chaperoned new Youth signing Hannibal on the United youth tour of Sweden. 

Typical United, disgusted. 

They have just promoted within with the same people who have controlled United's disastrous transfer policy the last decade and have seemed to have split the DOF position into three.

• Football Director who oversees all operations as more of an operational strategy kind of boss
• Technical Director who looks at things from a football perspective
• Director of Negotiations who sits down with other teams' representatives

Unfortunately they all report to Woodward who needed to be removed from football matters and told to concentrate on the financial side of the business.  Its a disappointment with the top names that were being rumored for the DOf job.  But I guess nobody wanted to play second fiddle to Woodward 

 

[Devil]

So we're drawing to the climax of yet another season and given it started late and we've been drowned with football matches since last September what everyone's verdict on United's current direction.

Man United fans

• Still some way to go yet but you feel we are improving as a team or do you think we're treading water and need fresh idea's?
• Also what do you consider makes this season a success, top two and no trophies or do we need a piece of silverwear to make this season a success.

Non United fans

• What's your verdict on the direct United are going and do you think Ole is the right man to take us there?
• What do you think is required to make this season a success for Manchester United, top two or more?

[DeadLinesman]

28 minutes ago, Devil said:

So we're drawing to the climax of yet another season and given it started late and we've been drowned with football matches since last September what everyone's verdict on United's current direction.

Man United fans

• Still some way to go yet but you feel we are improving as a team or do you think we're treading water and need fresh idea's?
• Also what do you consider makes this season a success, top two and no trophies or do we need a piece of silverwear to make this season a success.

I think we’re still 2/3 players off being really competitive. Can’t see Pogba staying, and VDB is not a replacement. And we still need a world class striker. 
 

This season has been a success if we finish second and win the Europa. Anything less is a regression in my opinion.

[Devil]

2 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

I think we’re still 2/3 players off being really competitive. Can’t see Pogba staying, and VDB is not a replacement. And we still need a world class striker. 
 

This season has been a success if we finish second and win the Europa. Anything less is a regression in my opinion.

Interesting mate, I'm in total agreement. I said at the start of the season top four and a minimum of one trophy. Given the level of opposition in the Europa you'd expect us to challenge but I just have an horrible feeling about Thursday night. 

As for Pogba going that has to happen doesn't it, even if it's a play for a better contract I'd like him to go anyway. The guy is just a bad egg and is constantly going to cause issues no matter where he plays. VDB is a strange one, I believed he was a top player but he's clearly so mentally weak he's failed to adapt and looks totally lost and out of his comfort zone whenever he's played or come on. 

His last appearance was a game at Old Trafford and he was brought on to make a difference in the dying minutes and he did nothing but keep it simple and go backwards. Apparently he's been injured since, I'm starting to think that's rubbish though. 

[Stan]

35 minutes ago, Devil said:

Non United fans

• What's your verdict on the direct United are going and do you think Ole is the right man to take us there?
• What do you think is required to make this season a success for Manchester United, top two or more?

Seems to be that Utd have steadied the ship at the minimum, and moved forward when you look at the position in the league. Seem to be doing enough to become the best of the rest and I think you'll finish in 2nd with ease by the time the end of the season comes.

Surely a successful season if you finish 2nd and then win a trophy - be it FA Cup (hope not) or Europa League. I think you're comfortably the strongest team left in the EL, and should win it as the favourite. 

[Cicero]

Non United fans

• What's your verdict on the direct United are going and do you think Ole is the right man to take us there?
• What do you think is required to make this season a success for Manchester United, top two or more?

 

Personally, I don't fear United under Ole. Be it player quality wise, but their record under Ole in knock out competitions is far from impressive. I feel at United's very peak under Ole, they will still be only 2nd or 3rd best. 

2nd place finish and an FA Cup/Europa League can definitely be something both Ole and United build on. Not winning either will just prove my point above. 

 

[Devil]

Just now, Stan said:

Seems to be that Utd have steadied the ship at the minimum, and moved forward when you look at the position in the league. Seem to be doing enough to become the best of the rest and I think you'll finish in 2nd with ease by the time the end of the season comes.

Surely a successful season if you finish 2nd and then win a trophy - be it FA Cup (hope not) or Europa League. I think you're comfortably the strongest team left in the EL, and should win it as the favourite. 

To be fair Liverpool have beset with injuries so I wouldn't say we are better than them when they are all fully fit. The rest baring Leicester are underachieving to a horrific level so it's hard to actually gauge where we are actually at.

 

[Devil]

Just now, Cicero said:

Non United fans

• What's your verdict on the direct United are going and do you think Ole is the right man to take us there?
• What do you think is required to make this season a success for Manchester United, top two or more?

 

Personally, I don't fear United under Ole. Be it player quality wise, but their record under Ole in knock out competitions is far from impressive. I feel at United's very peak under Ole, they will still be only 2nd or 3rd best. 

2nd place finish and an FA Cup/Europa League can definitely be something both Ole and United build on. Not winning either will just prove my point above. 

 

You think Ole should go if he doesn't win a trophy?

 

[Cicero]

Just now, Devil said:

You think Ole should go if he doesn't win a trophy?

Yes. Would be a crime if United don't win the Europa this season and you would have now gone 4 years without a trophy. 

This is Manchester United. Not a work experience. 

[Stan]

3 minutes ago, Devil said:

To be fair Liverpool have beset with injuries so I wouldn't say we are better than them when they are all fully fit. The rest baring Leicester are underachieving to a horrific level so it's hard to actually gauge where we are actually at.

 

That lends itself to both sides of the debate, to be fair. You're still in 2nd because you've won enough games and garnered enough points where others have failed. 

Goes back to that old adage 'you can only beat what's in front of you'. While in the present it might be hard to gauge your 'true' position, the fact is that you are 2nd and will be in the CL - you won't finish outside top 4 or you'll win EL. So it's a good starting point to build on. 

No team other than Man City is probably as good as Liverpool so it depends who you compare your season to.  

[Devil]

2 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Yes. Would be a crime if United don't win the Europa this season and you would have now gone 4 years without a trophy. 

This is Manchester United. Not a work experience. 

How many years did Klopp get before winning a trophy at Liverpool?

Ole hasn't managed us for four years, only two. 

You've also got to consider he's managing us during a global pandemic and has to manage a game every three days. Add to that a lack of fund in the market. Jose never had that issue during his two years after the trophy wins. 

[Cicero]

Just now, Devil said:

How many years did Klopp get before winning a trophy at Liverpool?

Ole hasn't managed us for four years, only two. 

You've also got to consider he's managing us during a global pandemic and has to manage a game every three days. Add to that a lack of fund in the market. Jose never had that issue during his two years after the trophy wins. 

Really hate the Klopp comparisons when people mentioned Lampard. For one, Klopp had a proven background so was worth the risk. 

I personally believe Ole is the man who will have United, "just get by". I don't think he's the man to have them take the next step, and I reiterate, a lot depends on whether United win a trophy this season. 

[Devil]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

That lends itself to both sides of the debate, to be fair. You're still in 2nd because you've won enough games and garnered enough points where others have failed. 

Goes back to that old adage 'you can only beat what's in front of you'. While in the present it might be hard to gauge your 'true' position, the fact is that you are 2nd and will be in the CL - you won't finish outside top 4 or you'll win EL. So it's a good starting point to build on. 

No team other than Man City is probably as good as Liverpool so it depends who you compare your season to.  

If you call us the big seven for arguments sakes you'd say City and Leicester have had fantastic seasons so far. 

You'd say United are possibly overachieving/expected to finish top two. I'd say we're somewhere in the middle of those two. 

Chelsea are clearly a team in huge transition similar to United

Liverpool have a belting excuse and have been hammered by injuries in key area's. 

Spurs, I don't know what to make of Spurs if I'm honest. They are clearly a group of attacking players being asked to play a system that doesn't suit them. 

Arsenal, well they've been a disaster haven't they. 

[Devil]

2 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Really hate the Klopp comparisons when people mentioned Lampard. For one, Klopp had a proven background so was worth the risk. 

I personally believe Ole is the man who will have United, "just get by". I don't think he's the man to have them take the next step, and I reiterate, a lot depends on whether United win a trophy this season. 

Regardless of the background he was allowed to build and mould his squad, Ole hasn't actually done too badly result wise in the league but I agree he should have done better in the cup competitions.

You could never expect to see him challenging for titles when he took over the job and really there has only been a handful of changes since, the deadwood were deadwood then and they still are now. If he got Sancho a top CB and a striker (a lot for one window) I wouldn't be at all surprised to see us challenging. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

11 hours ago, Devil said:

Non United fans

• What's your verdict on the direct United are going and do you think Ole is the right man to take us there?
• What do you think is required to make this season a success for Manchester United, top two or more?

For the first part - it's really tough to say, imo. This season just really isn't much like an ordinary season (unless we count City running away with the league as the new ordinary of the league) - so many sides, not just us, suffering from injuries or looking really inconsistent. And I think that's a result of the condensed season because of the global pandemic.

And I think United this season have at times looked the same as they did last season, and at other times, looked a much better team than I remember them being last year. So that's a bit of that inconsistency I was talking about.

But as for whether Solksjaer is the right man for the job... I really don't know mate. I don't think he's terrible or woefully out of his depth - I also don't know if I think he's good enough tactically to take United around the corner and back to the glory days. I also don't know that he's not good enough tactically - he's still relatively "new" to being a manager, certainly at a club the size of United. And I do believe that experience as a manager is underrated to an extent - I don't think you can just give a manager who's had a decent start to their career a ton of cash to blow and expect them to do as well as someone that's had the experience building a successful team.

Basically, I think he's probably not the right man for the job right now... but it's not beyond the realm of possibility that he grows into the job. And unlike a lot of fans of other big clubs, I think Manchester United - a club legend who, imo, has demonstrated he has improved on the job - are the kind of fans that can/will afford him some patience to grow on the job.

As for what would make the season a success - finishing in the top 4 (obviously, the higher in the top 4 you finish, the more successful) and winning the FA Cup and/or Europa League.

For me, personally, if I were a United fan... I'd want the club to be focused on finishing in 2nd place (or 1st if City somehow go on a horrific run), then winning the Europa League. Doing well in the Europa League I think would be a big step for the manager - it's just good practice for playing in the CL really.

 

[DeadLinesman]

17 hours ago, Devil said:

Interesting mate, I'm in total agreement. I said at the start of the season top four and a minimum of one trophy. Given the level of opposition in the Europa you'd expect us to challenge but I just have an horrible feeling about Thursday night. 

As for Pogba going that has to happen doesn't it, even if it's a play for a better contract I'd like him to go anyway. The guy is just a bad egg and is constantly going to cause issues no matter where he plays. VDB is a strange one, I believed he was a top player but he's clearly so mentally weak he's failed to adapt and looks totally lost and out of his comfort zone whenever he's played or come on. 

His last appearance was a game at Old Trafford and he was brought on to make a difference in the dying minutes and he did nothing but keep it simple and go backwards. Apparently he's been injured since, I'm starting to think that's rubbish though. 

Apparently he might be fit for the Milan game. Pogba frustrates me because he could easily be the top player in world football, and I genuinely believe that. Just seems his attitude is utter wank, bit like Martial. They’re good at playing football, but they don’t love the game, thus they’ll never reach their full potential.

[Devil]

1 hour ago, DeadLinesman said:

Apparently he might be fit for the Milan game. Pogba frustrates me because he could easily be the top player in world football, and I genuinely believe that. Just seems his attitude is utter wank, bit like Martial. They’re good at playing football, but they don’t love the game, thus they’ll never reach their full potential.

To be fair I think we grew up in the era of blood and guts football where the players earned more than your average man but not enough to make them have control of a football club. So we expect more out of them than they are willing to give now, money is the route of evil really. 

The likes of Pogba and Martial know they are investments that United need to protect no matter what, we're a business at the end of the day and we can't afford to allow a man that could command a 60 million pound transfer fee to walk away for free. So basically he knows he's either getting his mega pay rise or he gets his transfer. Pogba's attitude is a disgrace though, honestly I hate the fact he plays for United. Sir Alex doesn't get most stuff wrong and he hate Riola and he didn't like what he heard from Pogba, a young man big enough and brave enough to tell the best manager of all time he was leaving because he wasn't getting enough game time at 19 years of age! he was always going to be trouble. 

Martial is a strange one, he certainly raised is performance levels to get his new contract and then strolls around the pitch with the attitude of a man who refuses to follow instructions. Having said that whenever we throw in a big performance and beat the likes City he's outstanding. Unfortunately, he just doesn't seem interested in the likes of Sheffield United away so what do you with him?

I'd sell him myself but speaking to a fair few fans on the subject over the last year or so, most said they don't think their club would touch him with a barge pole because of his attitude to the game. 

[DeadLinesman]

4 minutes ago, Devil said:

Martial is a strange one, he certainly raised is performance levels to get his new contract and then strolls around the pitch with the attitude of a man who refuses to follow instructions. Having said that whenever we throw in a big performance and beat the likes City he's outstanding. Unfortunately, he just doesn't seem interested in the likes of Sheffield United away so what do you with him?

And this is what fucks me off the most. Same with Pogba. You know they’ve got it in the locker, but are just so bloody inconsistent.

[Devil]

7 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

And this is what fucks me off the most. Same with Pogba. You know they’ve got it in the locker, but are just so bloody inconsistent.

I actually think Pogba is on an early career decline now mate. I was the same opinion as you for the last two years and I always believed you needed to get better players around him to take the weight of responsibility off him. 

I watched him for France and thought if we get creative players it will allow him to play his nice two touch football and be the steady world class player we have seen for France and Juve. Fernandes come's in and Pogba returns from injury and plays two games two touch (Burnley & Villa) and he looks outstanding. 

You think that's it, we've now got the Pogba we all wanted and then by the third game the ball hogging greedy enigma was back losing possession in the final third and costing us points.