Coronavirus & The Premier League

[LFCMike]

Looks like they're starting with the two postponed games in hand first before the full round of weekend fixtures

[Honey Honey]

The FA Cup back as well 

[LFCMike]

 

[Stan]

Didn't expect this 

 

[LFCMike]

31 minutes ago, Stan said:

Didn't expect this 

 

Sky are showing 25 free to air games too, including the Merseyside derby apparently

[tlr]

Suppose that even though everyone uses dodgy online streams these days, there's a danger of people congregating at someone's place to watch matches if they don't have Sky or BT. Makes sense to try and keep some offering to avoid this.

[Toinho]

So... is the real reason the EPL is back is because of money? Why isn’t the women’s league back? Not too sure, but hopefully someone over in your land can answer that one. 

[LFCMadLad]

From the Deeney quote..

"and raised concerns over the increased risk to black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) players".

 

why? 

 

This is what I said a while ago. Why do they always bring race etc into it? Moan about being treated differently, then bring it up at every opportunity.

 

fuck off.

[RandoEFC+]

16 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

From the Deeney quote..

"and raised concerns over the increased risk to black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) players".

 

why? 

 

This is what I said a while ago. Why do they always bring race etc into it? Moan about being treated differently, then bring it up at every opportunity.

 

fuck off.

This is a bizarre take mate. There's absolute piles of evidence showing that on average, BAME patients are up to four times more likely to die from the virus than white people. That's just science, not people bringing race into it.

I have to say I've come round now to being supportive of getting this going again. It appears that testing where it actually matters in the community is heading in the right direction so I have less reservations about tests going to the Premier League when they weren't going to key workers. I've also had to get over the behind closed doors part because it's going to be forever before crowds can return to football.

Some people still think it's unsafe as long as there are 3 or 4 positive tests. As far as I've heard, all of these have been symptomless so far. If you want to wait until there are 0 positive cases before continuing it's going to take forever. And then what happens when you start, get a couple of games done then some guys test positive again? Stop for another month?

It's going to be absolutely shite compared to normal football but if they've decided the season must finish then it's the right time to get on with it.

[Toinho]

7 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

This is a bizarre take mate. There's absolute piles of evidence showing that on average, BAME patients are up to four times more likely to die from the virus than white people. That's just science, not people bringing race into it.

I have to say I've come round now to being supportive of getting this going again. It appears that testing where it actually matters in the community is heading in the right direction so I have less reservations about tests going to the Premier League when they weren't going to key workers. I've also had to get over the behind closed doors part because it's going to be forever before crowds can return to football.

Some people still think it's unsafe as long as there are 3 or 4 positive tests. As far as I've heard, all of these have been symptomless so far. If you want to wait until there are 0 positive cases before continuing it's going to take forever. And then what happens when you start, get a couple of games done then some guys test positive again? Stop for another month?

It's going to be absolutely shite compared to normal football but if they've decided the season must finish then it's the right time to get on with it.

Why can’t the women’s league finish?

[Toinho]

29 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

From the Deeney quote..

"and raised concerns over the increased risk to black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) players".

 

why? 

 

This is what I said a while ago. Why do they always bring race etc into it? Moan about being treated differently, then bring it up at every opportunity.

 

fuck off.

It’s science. See Rando’s post. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

28 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

This is a bizarre take mate. There's absolute piles of evidence showing that on average, BAME patients are up to four times more likely to die from the virus than white people. That's just science, not people bringing race into it.

I think it's not so simple as if you're a BAME patient you're automatically more likely to die. There's actually a lot of factors that lead to the statistical difference, more than just race by itself. Some of those factors are the percentage of the BAME population have more "at risk" health conditions. BAME households statistically have more people living in the same house, which leads for more opportunities for people to bring the disease home to those members of those households. There's socioeconomic factors as well (which if you believe in systemic racism existing in the UK... which everyone should tbh... you'll note more minorities are in lower socioeconomic brackets), because regardless of race or ethnicity - the death rate of Britain's poor is around twice what rich people who test positive die at.

This article does a pretty good reason at explaining it https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52219070

I think it's a bit lazy to say it's purely down to race that people are dying more - there's other factors at play as to why Blacks, Asians, and other minority groups are being hit more. And tbh, with Deeney being a professional athlete in a league that's got more money than pretty much every other league in football... I think many of his concerns about COVID aren't quite the same as your average BAME resident in the UK. For example, I know one thing he's mentioned in the past is his mum's his hero because she worked 3 jobs as a kid to keep her family supported... so once he made it to the big time, he bought her a house. I think back then, when he was living with his mum working 3 jobs... then you could say he's got the same covid concerns as the rest of the BAME community. But by being able to buy his mum a house, he's showing that he's not got that same household density issue that others in the BAME community might have.

I fully think he's got a legitimate reason to be fearful of playing and training because of his young kid with a health problem. But I think his concern would be the same if he were white - because I think anyone with an at risk family member would be reasonably apprehensive about.

I fully understand why he'd want to talk about it and make it an issue the media covers though. He's a big voice in advocating for the BAME community, so while it might not necessarily affect him... I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing for him to be talking about. It's him caring about the community he's a part of. Even though I think his particular situation is a bit removed from the rest of the BAME community.

I've got a mixed mind about it, because at the end of the day... I think while he might not be in the same boat as the rest of the BAME community, and to many it might seem irritating a millionaire is trying to act like he's still "one of the normal guys", he's still doing a good thing by making it a public issue. And as far as top flight players go, he really is more of a normal guy than most people. And I think he's got fully legitimate reasons for not wanting to train or play during a pandemic... his son's only a few months old and he doesn't want to lose his son while he's got his whole life ahead of him. 

 

 

tl;dr - I can understand why people get annoyed with Deeney for acting like he's got the same COVID concerns as most of the BAME community; he's not really in the same boat as them. But at the same time... I don't think he's doing anything wrong by bringing attention to how the BAME community is more affected because he's an advocate for that community. And he's a good advocate for BAME Brits, who need as many good advocates as possible.

And regardless of whether Deeney's in the same boat as the vast majority of his community or not... his reasons against wanting to participate until the pandemic is over are completely legitimate.

[Danny]

I think a valid issue raised by Deeney is that whilst there are a variety of social and economic reasons as to why "BAME" people are more likely to catch the disease, there is little in the way of proof to suggest that they're (obviously specific to ethnicity) also not more likely to suffer with it than white people (as far as I'm aware). So until it is widely disproved that the disease doesn't effect any race more than another in terms of genetics their fear of the high numbers of "BAME" patients and how that can effect them is fairly valid imo. Yes they're well paid footballers and at their peak physical fitness, but they're still at risk of getting the disease (even if it effects them very little) and spreading that disease on, and for a lot of "BAME" people they'll suffer an unfair amount of systemic discrimination compared to their white counterparts so you can hardly blame them for seeing those numbers and worrying.

[LFCMadLad]

The world is going mad, it really is. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Danny said:

I think a valid issue raised by Deeney is that whilst there are a variety of social and economic reasons as to why "BAME" people are more likely to catch the disease, there is little in the way of proof to suggest that they're (obviously specific to ethnicity) also not more likely to suffer with it than white people (as far as I'm aware). So until it is widely disproved that the disease doesn't effect any race more than another in terms of genetics their fear of the high numbers of "BAME" patients and how that can effect them is fairly valid imo. Yes they're well paid footballers and at their peak physical fitness, but they're still at risk of getting the disease (even if it effects them very little) and spreading that disease on, and for a lot of "BAME" people they'll suffer an unfair amount of systemic discrimination compared to their white counterparts so you can hardly blame them for seeing those numbers and worrying.

I still think it’s very much a socioeconomic issue. I’m going to use Iran as an example because: 1) I’m half Iranian, 2) Iran was hit very hard by the virus. Was Iran’s high death toll due to race/ethnicity, or was it due to socioeconomic circumstances?

Most countries have a massive gap between the rich and the not rich, Iran is probably a country where that divide is most stark. With a economy in tatters and sanctions preventing medicine and PPE from entering the country easily, it’s understandable that the virus hit them very hard. Yet even if you look at Iran’s very doctored statistics, it’s clear poor people die at a much higher rate than the middle class and wealthy (and there’s a big divide between those 2 groups in Iran).

I think that’s the same problem in Europe, it just looks more racially biased because systemic racism means more BAME people are in lower socioeconomic brackets.

There’s also cultural differences, I think Middle Eastern, Indians, and Pakistani’s tend to have very strong familial ties which lead to higher numbers of peoples living in the same household. I can speak from personal experience when I say immigrant family homes from middle eastern countries may have a shitload more people than you’d expect in one household.

To me it seems more likely to be spreading more and killing more in these communities for reasons like that than purely on race. It’s still early days of this virus, and maybe certain races are more prone to covid-19. But like diabetes among black communities, I think the explanation is more rooted in socioeconomics than race. Meaning I think systemic racism is the real reason than being genetically prone to it.

Which again, I’m not sure is the same problem Deeney faces... but I don’t think he’s doing anything wrong bringing the issue to the media for us to be talking about. He’s sort of done his job there as a voice for his community there

[LFCMike]

8 hours ago, Toinho said:

So... is the real reason the EPL is back is because of money? Why isn’t the women’s league back? Not too sure, but hopefully someone over in your land can answer that one. 

I listened to something the other day, whoever was speaking from the women's game mentioned the cost of testing was the main issue. She said most of the clubs are already running at a loss. But there's also the fact that the TV deals are very different in terms of money.

[LFCMike]

6 hours ago, LFCMadLad said:

The world is going mad, it really is. 

Why? Three people have made perfectly valid posts following your post as to why players like Deeney might have concerns

[Stan]

7 hours ago, LFCMadLad said:

The world is going mad, it really is. 

Is that because you have no response to the posts made? 

You made a very bizarre post, they came back with some very valid reasons and you have nothing to respond with? All you've done is accuse them (Deeney/footballers) of playing the race card for mentioning BAME .

You've seen 'BAME' and seem to ignored the specific reasons why, just those 4 letters. And made your own conclusions. I think the points made by @Danny @Dr. Gonzoand @RandoEFC have all been valid and sensible.

But apparently the world is going mad. 

[Danny]

4 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I still think it’s very much a socioeconomic issue. I’m going to use Iran as an example because: 1) I’m half Iranian, 2) Iran was hit very hard by the virus. Was Iran’s high death toll due to race/ethnicity, or was it due to socioeconomic circumstances?

Most countries have a massive gap between the rich and the not rich, Iran is probably a country where that divide is most stark. With a economy in tatters and sanctions preventing medicine and PPE from entering the country easily, it’s understandable that the virus hit them very hard. Yet even if you look at Iran’s very doctored statistics, it’s clear poor people die at a much higher rate than the middle class and wealthy (and there’s a big divide between those 2 groups in Iran).

I think that’s the same problem in Europe, it just looks more racially biased because systemic racism means more BAME people are in lower socioeconomic brackets.

There’s also cultural differences, I think Middle Eastern, Indians, and Pakistani’s tend to have very strong familial ties which lead to higher numbers of peoples living in the same household. I can speak from personal experience when I say immigrant family homes from middle eastern countries may have a shitload more people than you’d expect in one household.

To me it seems more likely to be spreading more and killing more in these communities for reasons like that than purely on race. It’s still early days of this virus, and maybe certain races are more prone to covid-19. But like diabetes among black communities, I think the explanation is more rooted in socioeconomics than race. Meaning I think systemic racism is the real reason than being genetically prone to it.

Which again, I’m not sure is the same problem Deeney faces... but I don’t think he’s doing anything wrong bringing the issue to the media for us to be talking about. He’s sort of done his job there as a voice for his community there

And tbh mate I think it’s largely socioeconomic too, especially when you consider that the NHS is propped up by immigration. But I think concerns that there maybe something genetic at play too are valid at this point until they are disproved, just a case of investigating exactly why “BAME” people are more at risk. Be safe than sorry.

[Honey Honey]

Whilst social deprivation and underlying health conditions aren't likely going to be an issue for a BAME footballer, if the increased hospitalization rate has any other reason playing a part it may be a risk factor for players.

We just don't know yet but research is on going regarding Vitamin D deficiencies in the BAME community. The NHS advice is that all black people who live in Britain must take Vitamin D supplements through winter, but the importance level of this information is really only a few years old.

At the same time as far as I am aware the data is that there is an increased hospitalization risk if you are BAME but once in hospital ethnicity plays no role, recovery, ICU and death rates are the same. The issue is disproportionate hospitalization.

Auto correct to blame for that American English 

[Honey Honey]

Some games could be played at neutral grounds because of police fears fans turn up outside the stadium 

 

[LFCMike]

4 minutes ago, Harvsky said:

Some games could be played at neutral grounds because of police fears fans turn up outside the stadium 

 

I don't really get this. People aren't going to stand outside a football ground when the only place they can watch the match is at home. 

The discussion mainly seems to be about games where Liverpool can confirm the title. Moving Liverpool to a neutral ground makes no sense as you're just as likely to get people in other parts of the country trying to turn up, if at all. And Anfield must be one of the easiest grounds in the country to block off routes to if they're concerned about it.

[RandoEFC+]

Hard to see how that fits with their integrity of the competition line. Liverpool have already got the league sewn up anyway but as an example they'll no longer have to play Everton or Man City away. Surely there's a better solution, I really think they're overstating the likelihood of masses of fans being stupid enough to gather outside of stadia. That said I get that if that does happen and they didn't try to do anything to mitigate that risk then they'll be culpable for it.

[Stan]

17 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

I don't really get this. People aren't going to stand outside a football ground when the only place they can watch the match is at home. 

The discussion mainly seems to be about games where Liverpool can confirm the title. Moving Liverpool to a neutral ground makes no sense as you're just as likely to get people in other parts of the country trying to turn up, if at all. And Anfield must be one of the easiest grounds in the country to block off routes to if they're concerned about it.

I think it's to avoid the potential of crowds gathering given that Liverpool could win the title in those games. It's quite a realistic possibility to be honest. Although they can watch the match at home, they're probably just considering the likelihood of crowds gathering to celebrate when it is confirmed you'll win the league, and it is a 'when' scenario, not an 'if'. The routes can be blocked off but then the the crowds may still gather in front of those roadblocks.

It goes for any ground, to be honest. Block wherever you want but crowds still could gather.

It's what is at stake though - Liverpool about to win their first league in 30 years regardless of circumstance, people still want to celebrate.  

[RandoEFC+]

If you want to hold their title winning fixture as far away from as many Liverpol fans as possible then they should relocate all of their remaining fixtures to Anfield including away games.