Danny 2,206 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, Spike said: You didn't answer my question. So far you've said he be rotated in, Klopp would make changes to fit in four forwards, and now they'd be selling a player. Make up your mind and stop putting words in for me. When did I say he’d be rotated? Liverpool are not going to sign someone as prominent as Werner and not play him straight away...Klopp was also not going to sign him if he can’t press...yet Liverpool still wanted him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,103 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Danny said: When did I say he’d be rotated? Liverpool are not going to sign someone as prominent as Werner and not play him straight away...Klopp was also not going to sign him if he can’t press...yet Liverpool still wanted him. Maybe someone else said that then. Yeah that is the problem, they'd have to play him straight away at the sake of someone else's minutes. Someone is losing out. Look at Barcelona with Griezmann, Coutinho, Dembele, you can't just shoehorn a player into someone's spot because only eleven players can start, and I imagine Salah, Firmino, and Sane don't want to give up any more minutes than they already do to the other players. Were Liverpool even in contact anyway? I don't believe any newspaper talk till it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael 1,116 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Spike said: Why would he do that to field an extra forward? They aren’t wanting for goals, and Werner doesn’t defend or press. Werner is actually very good at pressing, perhaps you haven't watched too many of the games that he has played in. His former club RB Leipzig are well known for their high pressing game and Werner was excellent at pressing the opposition when he was with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,103 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Just now, Michael said: Werner is actually very good at pressing, perhaps you haven't watched too many of the games that he has played in. His former club RB Leipzig are well known for their high pressing game and Werner was excellent at the pressing game when he was with them. Fair enough, I'm only going off what I've been told by others and I've been told that he is invisible when he isn't scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,186 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, Danny said: When did I say he’d be rotated? Liverpool are not going to sign someone as prominent as Werner and not play him straight away...Klopp was also not going to sign him if he can’t press...yet Liverpool still wanted him. I think it's pretty clear he'd have been rotated. Firmino's not been in great goalscoring form, but he's pretty pivotal to our system. And that system gives us Mane and Salah scoring pretty freely, so it's something that works pretty well and I really can't see Klopp dropping Firmino. I also don't think he'd drop Firmino into the midfield, as some people were saying we would do if we signed Werner. I think Klopp wanted higher quality depth, like Citeh have with Mahrez mostly sitting on the bench when he probably should be a starter at pretty much any other club. We do need a bit more depth if we ever want to compete on 4 fronts all season long... otherwise we're running the risk of players burning out. Otherwise, I suspect Klopp will keep feeling compelled to keep binning off the domestic cups, If you were in Werner's shoes though, the Chelsea move is a no-brainer. At Liverpool he's not a guaranteed starter and we've got a pretty well established attack. At Chelsea he's going to immediately be in ahead of Abraham and Giroud and be the focal point of the attack. Werner also would have been our highest earner if he joined us on those wages, or right up there with our very highest earners. We've got a pretty strict wage budget and tbh until we get rid of Lovren, I wouldn't expect us to bring in another player that's on massive wages like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,206 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Spike said: Maybe someone else said that then. Yeah that is the problem, they'd have to play him straight away at the sake of someone else's minutes. Someone is losing out. Look at Barcelona with Griezmann, Coutinho, Dembele, you can't just shoehorn a player into someone's spot because only eleven players can start, and I imagine Salah, Firmino, and Sane don't want to give up any more minutes than they already do to the other players. Were Liverpool even in contact anyway? I don't believe any newspaper talk till it happens. Formation change, Firminho used to be a midfielder. I’m sure Klopp had a gameplan otherwise Liverpool wouldn’t have been so interested in him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,206 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said: I think it's pretty clear he'd have been rotated. Firmino's not been in great goalscoring form, but he's pretty pivotal to our system. And that system gives us Mane and Salah scoring pretty freely, so it's something that works pretty well and I really can't see Klopp dropping Firmino. I also don't think he'd drop Firmino into the midfield, as some people were saying we would do if we signed Werner. I think Klopp wanted higher quality depth, like Citeh have with Mahrez mostly sitting on the bench when he probably should be a starter at pretty much any other club. We do need a bit more depth if we ever want to compete on 4 fronts all season long... otherwise we're running the risk of players burning out. Otherwise, I suspect Klopp will keep feeling compelled to keep binning off the domestic cups, If you were in Werner's shoes though, the Chelsea move is a no-brainer. At Liverpool he's not a guaranteed starter and we've got a pretty well established attack. At Chelsea he's going to immediately be in ahead of Abraham and Giroud and be the focal point of the attack. Werner also would have been our highest earner if he joined us on those wages, or right up there with our very highest earners. We've got a pretty strict wage budget and tbh until we get rid of Lovren, I wouldn't expect us to bring in another player that's on massive wages like that. Like I said above I I’m sure Klopp would have had a formation in mind to get Werner on the pitch and keep Mane, Salah and Firminho there too. Werner wouldn’t have been so insistent on the move had he not have had reassurances from Liverpool’s end... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMike 3,009 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Danny said: Like I said above I I’m sure Klopp would have had a formation in mind to get Werner on the pitch and keep Mane, Salah and Firminho there too. Werner wouldn’t have been so insistent on the move had he not have had reassurances from Liverpool’s end... He wouldn't have gone straight into the eleven because there was no urgent need for him like there was when we signed Alisson or Van Dijk for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,206 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 13 minutes ago, LFCMike said: He wouldn't have gone straight into the eleven because there was no urgent need for him like there was when we signed Alisson or Van Dijk for example. He's just scored 34 goals and has twice before score 20+ in a season, there is no way he would be dripfed into the team imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad 2,080 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, Danny said: He's just scored 34 goals and has twice before score 20+ in a season, there is no way he would be dripfed into the team imo. Mane and Salah are both better than Werner and Firmino creates the space. No way was Werner walking into our first 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMike 3,009 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, Danny said: He's just scored 34 goals and has twice before score 20+ in a season, there is no way he would be dripfed into the team imo. We'll never know but we can only go off other big money signings who have had to be patient under Klopp. I don't think he's walking into a side that's won the league quicker than anyone has done before (in before anyone says we won it in June) Which midfielder you taking out if you're dropping Firmino back? You need to consider the effect the midfield has on the full backs role in this Liverpool team. Klopp wouldn't just be ripping that up straight away. It might evolve over time but this isn't football manager where you come up with a new formation in the space of five minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panna King 1,012 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 23 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said: Ignore him. He's a toxic fan A toxic fan????????????????????????? No I am not at all! the problem is we have so many fans that just sit there and take it up the ass every season. I want us to be challenging, when I see teams with far less then what we have doing far better. The club is in turmoil at Arsenal, there are no excuses anymore, We played shit yesterday, I never ever want to see that again at home, the only 2 chances we created were handed to us on a plate, what else did we do. We actually have a player that was bought for the same amount as Liverpool most expensive player! look at the difference of the both players, Van Dijk has helped turn Liverpool into European and Premier League champions, what the hell has Pepe done at all this season. Sorry if you are going to say every time a fan is toxic as they criticise the failings of the club and there are a lot of those and rightly I can say things as I have over the years as I saw this coming. We are 9th in the league! with 2 games to go, if I am toxic than what the fuck are you, if you are happy with this?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panna King 1,012 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 16 hours ago, shut up said: It's was a game plan that worked. The best team in europe couldn't bypass it. What on earth are you talking about. Class from Arteta. Under wenger we get beat 6-2 or something, but that's okay cos we 'had a go' A game plan that Liverpool were going to give us the ball in their own box twice?? We did nothing to attack at all, it was piss poor, its not like we defended well as Martinez made several saves. Arteta is supposed to be from the Barcelona school of coaching, do you really want to see us playing like this at home every time we are up against a decent team? Its also not the first time we have done this, we dropped off and tried to hold on to a 0-1 at Brighton, its embarrassing it really is. I would be cancelling my season ticket straight away for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael 1,116 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 hour ago, LFCMadLad said: Mane and Salah are both better than Werner and Firmino creates the space. No way was Werner walking into our first 11. How exactly are you so certain of that? I think that Liverpool would have played Werner regularly had they bought him(In reality, I don't think that Liverpool would have signed him because of his wage demands). His big transfer fee, would have meant that there would have been pressure to play him. Werner is just as good as Mane and Salah to be honest. His goals-scoring record has been impressive and he would have been a real threat upfront for Liverpool. The only thing that would perhaps have been against him had he joined Liverpool, is the fact that Mane, Salah and Firmino all have a great understanding together on the pitch. It might have taken Werner a bit of time to adapt, but quality wise, Werner is just as good as the 3 Liverpool front men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad 2,080 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, Michael said: How exactly are you so certain of that? I think that Liverpool would have played Werner regularly had they bought him(In reality, I don't think that Liverpool would have signed him because of his wage demands). His big transfer fee, would have meant that there would have been pressure to play him. Werner is just as good as Mane and Salah to be honest. His goals-scoring record has been impressive and he would have been a real threat upfront for Liverpool. The only thing that would perhaps have been against him had he joined Liverpool, is the fact that Mane, Salah and Firmino all have a great understanding together on the pitch. It might have taken Werner a bit of time to adapt, but quality wise, Werner is just as good as the 3 Liverpool front men. Only my opinion but I think if Werner was world class he would have had more clubs chasing his signature, especially at £60m. We put Mane or Salah on the market and there would be a frenzy im sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,186 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Michael said: How exactly are you so certain of that? I think that Liverpool would have played Werner regularly had they bought him(In reality, I don't think that Liverpool would have signed him because of his wage demands). His big transfer fee, would have meant that there would have been pressure to play him. Werner is just as good as Mane and Salah to be honest. His goals-scoring record has been impressive and he would have been a real threat upfront for Liverpool. The only thing that would perhaps have been against him had he joined Liverpool, is the fact that Mane, Salah and Firmino all have a great understanding together on the pitch. It might have taken Werner a bit of time to adapt, but quality wise, Werner is just as good as the 3 Liverpool front men. I don’t think it’s a slight on Werner, it’s just we’ve got a very specific system and the two wide forwards we have absolute excel in that role (like you say). Taking that plus Klopp not being afraid to hold very good and expensive players out of the side until they’re used to our system, I think it’s more likely than not that Werner would slowly be bedded into the side. The idea that we might use Firmino as a midfielder seems like a very FIFA/PES move to get 4 very excellent attackers on the pitch (in an alternate reality where we got Werner). But quite frankly, we’ve never seen him play there (at least not with Liverpool). I think Werner is brilliant. Any time I’ve watched him play, I’ve thought “wow I’d love him on our side” and when I saw we were linked with him I really really wanted it to happen. But I also don’t blame him for making the move to be the star man at Chelsea (although, not gonna lie... I am jealous). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machado 1,710 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 3 hours ago, SirBalon 69 said: A toxic fan????????????????????????? No I am not at all! the problem is we have so many fans that just sit there and take it up the ass every season. Laughing my ass off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael 1,116 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 7 hours ago, LFCMadLad said: Only my opinion but I think if Werner was world class he would have had more clubs chasing his signature, especially at £60m. We put Mane or Salah on the market and there would be a frenzy im sure. You are entitled to your opinion, but I think that there are good reasons why not every single big club was after Werner. First of all £60 million is still quite a lot of money in these COVID-19 times, but second of all and more importantly, Werner's wage demands is what would have put a lot of clubs off. How many clubs in the world can afford or would be willing to pay a player £270,000 a week as well as a £10 million signing on fee at the time of a crisis? Maybe Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man City or PSG, I can't think of many more. Werner also made it known a while ago that playing in England(the EPL) was always a dream of his, so in a way, I think it was kind of inevitable that he joined moneybags Chelsea. In general, most clubs have been hit hard by this COVID-19 crisis and that's why we are highly unlikely to see many big transfers this summer, compared to what we have seen in previous seasons. In my opinion, Werner is at a similar level to the likes of Salah and Mane, some might say that he is even better. Anyway, we shall see how well he does at Chelsea next season, but I personally think that he will excel at the West London club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMike 3,009 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 15 minutes ago, shut up said: Just rewatched the game again. Ox has been a bit of a meh signing hasn't he? Been really poor since the return. Other than that he's a good player to have in the squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,383 Posted July 18, 2020 Author Administrator Share Posted July 18, 2020 Is he suffering from his injuries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 On 16/07/2020 at 23:57, SirBalon 69 said: A toxic fan????????????????????????? No I am not at all! the problem is we have so many fans that just sit there and take it up the ass every season. I want us to be challenging, when I see teams with far less then what we have doing far better. The club is in turmoil at Arsenal, there are no excuses anymore, We played shit yesterday, I never ever want to see that again at home, the only 2 chances we created were handed to us on a plate, what else did we do. We actually have a player that was bought for the same amount as Liverpool most expensive player! look at the difference of the both players, Van Dijk has helped turn Liverpool into European and Premier League champions, what the hell has Pepe done at all this season. Sorry if you are going to say every time a fan is toxic as they criticise the failings of the club and there are a lot of those and rightly I can say things as I have over the years as I saw this coming. We are 9th in the league! with 2 games to go, if I am toxic than what the fuck are you, if you are happy with this?? You're the definition of a toxic fan. You wanted Emery gone after one bad game last year against liverpool. Even though we were still in the champions league places at the time. You've moaned about aubameyang even though he has carried us at times. You expect us to match teams like man city even though they spend a lot more than we do. You always look for the negatives. Admitidly we are in a terrible state at the moment but you would still complain whatever happens. Fans like you are the problem with modern football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 What is a toxic fan? Being critical is an essential component of being a fan really. What is more toxic is the culture of blindly praising your club no matter what they do. The slavish puppy lapping up whatever is served. No Arsenal fan should be happy with how they are right now. Pepe was 70 mill wasn’t he? Jesus Christ who authorised that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman 5,938 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 A filthy Taxi Driver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panna King 1,012 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 5 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said: You're the definition of a toxic fan. You wanted Emery gone after one bad game last year against liverpool. Even though we were still in the champions league places at the time. You've moaned about aubameyang even though he has carried us at times. You expect us to match teams like man city even though they spend a lot more than we do. You always look for the negatives. Admitidly we are in a terrible state at the moment but you would still complain whatever happens. Fans like you are the problem with modern football No fans like you that get fucked in ass every game and remain positive. You are embarrassing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 21 minutes ago, SirBalon 69 said: No fans like you that get fucked in ass every game and remain positive. You are embarrassing! You go the game don’t you? None of the other arsenal fans on here do, don’t let them bully you, you’re the lifeblood of the club not stream watchers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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