Devil-Dick Willie Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 15 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: At least Werner didn’t score At this point, he could score every other game remaining and still would have flopped his first season, he's been below even my expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 Seeing half naked men groping each other around and Werner missing chances are the two things that complete @Devil-Dick Willie’s life. Bless him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 Can't believe we've gone from 3 years undefeated at home to losing 5 straight home games got the first time in our history. Unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted March 5, 2021 Author Administrator Share Posted March 5, 2021 9 minutes ago, Harry said: Can't believe we've gone from 3 years undefeated at home to losing 5 straight home games got the first time in our history. Unbelievable. Anfield was made such a difficult a place to win, even Liverpool are struggling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted March 5, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted March 5, 2021 9 hours ago, Scouse_Mouse said: You say this a lot, I don't mention Everton on here any more than you mention us Rando. Anyway I'll try and not mention Everton so much if it's upsetting, I just couldn't resist replying when you said we were making excuses, jeez you lot are still moaning about a decision Collina made 16 years ago ffs. Again without wanting to upset anyone, our injuries are a valid reason why we haven't reached last seasons highs, if your lot had had as many I think you would be blaming them too Rando. I replied to this last night but my phone spazzed out and deleted my reply so I'll try again. I can't remember the last time I started talking about Liverpool in an Everton-related thread but you've brought up Everton in a Liverpool match thread here, I am mostly being playful but you know I'm going to feed you the obsessed line again whenever you do that so you can hardly blame me . Also, I don't think you want to start playing the game of trying to make a point on someone by referring to silly behaviour of irrelevant other people who support the same club. We all have our whoppers but you lot don't half have quite the gallery to choose from! As to the injury thing, nobody has ever denied that it's a colossal factor in disrupting Liverpool's season. It's just my opinion that the domino effect of losing players in central defence, while it clearly extends significantly to the midfield area too due to Fabinho and Henderson dropping back, it shouldn't be having the impact it's having on the team's attacking output. I've seen most of Liverpool's games recently, for long spells you still dominate games, and all of your creative players that usually tear opposition defences to shreds are still on the pitch - the full backs and the front three. The inability they've shown to kill off games with their attacking play simply shouldn't be affected this much by Van Dijk, Henderson and Fabinho being absent or out of position. Again, there is an element of the injury crisis biting here, e.g. Richarlison putting Everton ahead, a goal which those three players may have snuffed out, giving Everton more opportunity to focus on their defensive work at 1-0 up, but if Salah, Mane, Firmino were on form, Liverpool should still have been able to get back into it. That's just me as an outsider looking in. I think Klopp and his team have more work to do than simply getting Van Dijk and Henderson back into the team to get the engine started again. And to be honest I can't fully put my finger on it, some of it can be explained by the points on hunger and mental fatigue that I've already raised but something else just seems not quite right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted March 5, 2021 Author Administrator Share Posted March 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: That's just me as an outsider looking in. I think Klopp and his team have more work to do than simply getting Van Dijk and Henderson back into the team to get the engine started again. And to be honest I can't fully put my finger on it, some of it can be explained by the points on hunger and mental fatigue that I've already raised but something else just seems not quite right. Again, as an outsider so I'm hoping they don't take offence, but it seems to me the mentality in general is lacking after winning everything. Some ex-professionals talk about it - once you've won something (after 30 years at that), do the players have the will to carry on winning and dominate or are they satisfied with having won the league and then CL? I'm probably not articulating it as well as I can. The injuries are the main point. As you say it's a huge factor and shouldn't be ignored. But sometimes players go through moments of being satisfied of winning and then dropping off because they feel they've achieved what they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 11 hours ago, DNA said: Tired of the pointing arms to indicate where you want the ball being ‘offsides’, surely it has to get revised for next season, surely. Agreed. That's probably one of the main positives you won't miss next season if you go down, I'd have thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 I keep seeing a lot of stuff on twtter and TV about Klopp needing to change the shape which I think is not the main point. Within the possibilities of the players he picks, he actually does seem to be tweaking stuff a lot - having Mane play more central, Salah hanging wide, Robertson playing higher and wider than TAA. That kind of thing. The main issue is the personnel itself. When it comes to pressing, ball retention, making chances, finishing, defending their box, and all the things a top team are expected to do regardless of shape, the players just look shot mentally. And rather than drop people, Klopp is more inclined to stick by them and try to show confidence in them. Which has maybe done well for him in the past, but doesn't seem likely to work when it's most of the team which is misfiring - if almost everyone is having a nightmare, there's no platform to build confidence, unless everyone suddenly snaps out of it at once. Most other managers would probably have brought Davies, Keita, Shaqiri, Minamino and the like into the team much more over the last few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted March 5, 2021 Author Administrator Share Posted March 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, Inverted said: And rather than drop people, Klopp is more inclined to stick by them and try to show confidence in them. Which has maybe done well for him in the past, but doesn't seem likely to work when it's most of the team which is misfiring. Most other managers would probably have brought Davies, Keita, Shaqiri, Minamino and the like into the team much more over the last few months. Would that have been such a bad thing in some games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Stan said: Would that have been such a bad thing in some games? No, that's what I'm saying. It's one thing to keep a single struggling player in a team which is otherwise playing well, and giving him a show of confidence. That's often a good idea. But at the moment it's like Klopp is trying to do the same thing with 5 or 6 players at the same time. When things have gotten that bad, it seems pretty obvious that drastic changes are needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 7 hours ago, Cicero said: Seeing half naked men groping each other around and Werner missing chances are the two things that complete @Devil-Dick Willie’s life. Bless him. Bloke on blokes and little german jokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouse_Mouse Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 3 hours ago, RandoEFC said: As to the injury thing, nobody has ever denied that it's a colossal factor in disrupting Liverpool's season. Actually I was very surprised that when I first brought up injuries there were quite a few on here that argued Liverpool's injuries were nothing unusual and that just about "every club has had the same"', you would hope though that most people would admit that injuries are huge factor and while other clubs have certainly suffered too, what we have witnessed at Liverpool this season is anything but ordinary. But you do make a good point that it might be more than injuries going on. Yes we have seen a drop in form from some players but even then part of the reason comes down to the same injury problems, even if some are only indirectly linked. TAA and Robbo's "form"? neither have reached the heights of previous season assist totals, not necessarily because of form but imho because out CB decimation has meant they just can't get as forward as often. Other players haven't looked the same this season as last, Fab's been injury hit too and when he's been fit he's had to play a completely different role. Henderson likewise, even when he's been in the team his role has been changed due to injuries elsewhere. I could go on and on, yes you see a change in body language but even that is natural, our much maligned forwards look frustrated , it's not like they are missing sitters week after week, we just aren't creating chances anywhere close to last season. I felt for Mo yesterday, they subbed him and he didn't like it, I neither did I or most of the fans, we were a goal down and he is our best striker ffs. As many others have said I'll be glad when this nightmare of a season is over. We don't need a major rebuild we just need healthy bodies back. 3 hours ago, Stan said: Again, as an outsider so I'm hoping they don't take offence, but it seems to me the mentality in general is lacking after winning everything. Some ex-professionals talk about it - once you've won something (after 30 years at that), do the players have the will to carry on winning and dominate or are they satisfied with having won the league and then CL? I'm probably not articulating it as well as I can. The injuries are the main point. As you say it's a huge factor and shouldn't be ignored. But sometimes players go through moments of being satisfied of winning and then dropping off because they feel they've achieved what they can. I've seen that with other teams Stan, ours included. I don't think that's the case with ours right now though. We have too many key players still in their prime or still to reach their prime, we have had that taste of success with the League and in Europe. I just can't see anyone (with the possible exception of Milner) even begin to think about resting on their laurels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storts Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Scouse_Mouse said: Actually I was very surprised that when I first brought up injuries there were quite a few on here that argued Liverpool's injuries were nothing unusual and that just about "every club has had the same"', you would hope though that most people would admit that injuries are huge factor and while other clubs have certainly suffered too, what we have witnessed at Liverpool this season is anything but ordinary. But you do make a good point that it might be more than injuries going on. Yes we have seen a drop in form from some players but even then part of the reason comes down to the same injury problems, even if some are only indirectly linked. TAA and Robbo's "form"? neither have reached the heights of previous season assist totals, not necessarily because of form but imho because out CB decimation has meant they just can't get as forward as often. Other players haven't looked the same this season as last, Fab's been injury hit too and when he's been fit he's had to play a completely different role. Henderson likewise, even when he's been in the team his role has been changed due to injuries elsewhere. I could go on and on, yes you see a change in body language but even that is natural, our much maligned forwards look frustrated , it's not like they are missing sitters week after week, we just aren't creating chances anywhere close to last season. I felt for Mo yesterday, they subbed him and he didn't like it, I neither did I or most of the fans, we were a goal down and he is our best striker ffs. As many others have said I'll be glad when this nightmare of a season is over. We don't need a major rebuild we just need healthy bodies back. I've seen that with other teams Stan, ours included. I don't think that's the case with ours right now though. We have too many key players still in their prime or still to reach their prime, we have had that taste of success with the League and in Europe. I just can't see anyone (with the possible exception of Milner) even begin to think about resting on their laurels? Liverpool barely got an injury for 2 years and the players were completely run into the ground. It’s not really a surprise it’s finally caught up with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouse_Mouse Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, Storts said: Liverpool barely got an injury for 2 years and the players were completely run into the ground. It’s not really a surprise it’s finally caught up with them It must be true, coz Storts read it on Twitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMike Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 27 minutes ago, Storts said: Liverpool barely got an injury for 2 years and the players were completely run into the ground. It’s not really a surprise it’s finally caught up with them Completely untrue regarding injuries though isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 34 minutes ago, LFCMike said: Completely untrue regarding injuries though isn't it? Maybe in terms of how he worded it but I kinda agree with what @Storts is essentially saying. It was good luck to avoid anything too bad, it's just this year, you've had it all swing the other way. I'll tell you why I agree as well. My mate is a big Liverpool fan going on about injuries and I said to him, be fair mate, you got lucky to avoid a few last year. Looking into it as well, this is the appearances from last years first team in the league. Alisson 29 (He had that injury at the start granted) Trent 38 Robertson 36 VVD 38 Gomez 28 Henderson 39 (He had that injury after the restart if I remember?) Fabinho 28 Wijnaldum 37 Mane 35 Firmino 38 Salah 34 That's bloody good going really. And you had the support of the others filling in where possible, won't go into too many there as this isn't about them but just to give you an idea... Matip 9 (He's just a perennial sicknote) Lovren 10 Milner 22 Keita 18 Oxlade Chamberlain 30 So i do see what Storts means. You can't say he doesn't have a fair point there. It's massively unfortunate how it has happened this season because you've not had the back up's to really help either, let alone losing valuable first team members. I really do sympathise but we've all been there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 8 hours ago, Stan said: Anfield was made such a difficult a place to win, even Liverpool are struggling... There’s no fucking fans. I don’t think there’s any real home advantage right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 He made Jorignho look like Xavi last night... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted March 5, 2021 Author Administrator Share Posted March 5, 2021 16 minutes ago, Lucas said: Maybe in terms of how he worded it but I kinda agree with what @Storts is essentially saying. It was good luck to avoid anything too bad, it's just this year, you've had it all swing the other way. I'll tell you why I agree as well. My mate is a big Liverpool fan going on about injuries and I said to him, be fair mate, you got lucky to avoid a few last year. Looking into it as well, this is the appearances from last years first team in the league. Alisson 29 (He had that injury at the start granted) Trent 38 Robertson 36 VVD 38 Gomez 28 Henderson 39 (He had that injury after the restart if I remember?) Fabinho 28 Wijnaldum 37 Mane 35 Firmino 38 Salah 34 That's bloody good going really. And you had the support of the others filling in where possible, won't go into too many there as this isn't about them but just to give you an idea... Matip 9 (He's just a perennial sicknote) Lovren 10 Milner 22 Keita 18 Oxlade Chamberlain 30 So i do see what Storts means. You can't say he doesn't have a fair point there. It's massively unfortunate how it has happened this season because you've not had the back up's to really help either, let alone losing valuable first team members. I really do sympathise but we've all been there. I don't get how Matip can be seen as a 'top CB' as well when he's barely played/playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storts Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 41 minutes ago, LFCMike said: Completely untrue regarding injuries though isn't it? Lucas has done it for me but not really - you’d largely avoided major injuries to all your key players for a couple of years. They had played the vast majority of games. They were ridden to a CL and a league title. For me no surprise many of them have broken down this year - although that front three continues to avoid the injury bug- although they just look burnt out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouse_Mouse Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 17 minutes ago, Lucas said: So i do see what Storts means. You can't say he doesn't have a fair point there. So last season we only had two CB's who missed big parts of the season instead of three? I haven't looked at other clubs but I imagine injuries were less across the board in a season that was stretched over a year? Wasn't Kane injured before play was halted and then fit when play resumed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, Stan said: I don't get how Matip can be seen as a 'top CB' as well when he's barely played/playing. I think Liverpool would be best to sack him off personally. When someone has such a debatable fitness record as he does, can he really be relied on? For all his ego, I bet if offered, Liverpool would rather have Lovren back than the two new one's they recently added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 9 minutes ago, Cicero said: He made Jorignho look like Xavi last night... I legitimately hate watching Thiago play for us. He’s not good at anything. Worst signing we’ve made since Joe Cole or Cristian Poulson. Made all the more worse because he people said he was world class. Rubbish player tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Lucas said: I think Liverpool would be best to sack him off personally. When someone has such a debatable fitness record as he does, can he really be relied on? For all his ego, I bet if offered, Liverpool would rather have Lovren back than the two new one's they recently added. I’d trade Lovren for everyone we’ve signed this season except Jota in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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