Other PL Round 36 Matches - 7-11th May, 2022

[patoriku66]

Without a doubt. Pickford kept Everton in the match. As an ex goalkeeper I enjoy it even more. I think Everton played well enough to deserver the win but Pickford amde sure it stuck

[Dave]

1 hour ago, patoriku66 said:

 

I think they'll stay in The Championship this time round. They are a team of individuals with no leaders. The core that made them strong previously is all gone (Deeney, Capoue, Doucoure etc). It's OK to have a rotating managerial model if you have that core that care but apart from a 39 year old Goalkeeper Watford don't have that any more.

I have never seen a player less bothered about being sent off than Hassane Kamara was.

[Inverted]

I didn't realise the Roma goal was a set piece, as well as one of the goals at the weekend. 

I don't think things were even as bad with set pieces when he was up here. Not only can he not fix a simple long-term problem like that, it's getting worse.

My opinion of Brodge has always been roughly the same. Although he’s a massive egotist and hugely off-putting personally, he is a basically good manager with some rough edges to sort out. 

But it may actually be that he’s so arrogant that he’s completely incapable of becoming any better as a manager.

[Stan]

36 minutes ago, Inverted said:

I didn't realise the Roma goal was a set piece, as well as one of the goals at the weekend. 

I don't think things were even as bad with set pieces when he was up here. Not only can he not fix a simple long-term problem like that, it's getting worse.

My opinion of Brodge has always been roughly the same. Although he’s a massive egotist and hugely off-putting personally, he is a basically good manager with some rough edges to sort out. 

But it may actually be that he’s so arrogant that he’s completely incapable of becoming any better as a manager.

Given how stubborn he's been with our style of football and being so restrictive and cautious, despite not yielding enough satisfactory results or consistency, I think you're right on the final point. 

The ECL run was saving him but the credit in the bank over the last 2 seasons is fast running out. 

[Dave]

@Stan @Dan do you think it's a case of a manager naturally coming to the end of his cycle at a club?  As a neutral I think @Inverted has nailed it with the stubborness preventing Rodgers being a top manager. I know the squad has had to heavily rotate due to frequent injuries and other priorities but for Leicester to still be conceding so many set piece goals given the rate they were conceding them at the start of the season is ludicrous.

It feels like you're heading towards a big transition period. Tielemans has allegedly said he's not signing an extension, Jamie Vardy is naturally not going to be as prolific as previous seasons, Johnny Evans is still carrying a lot of responsibility for a player his age too. The only player from 'the old guard' that's bought so much success we may see next season is Kasper Schmeichel. 

It's hard to tell what you're going to get with Leicester's recruitment. One summer you'll uncover players like Fofana and Castagne who you can see being an integral part of the club for as long as theyre fit. Then the next summer you'll bring in names like Soumare and Vestergaard who tick all the boxes but don't seem to make any sort of impact.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

I might cop shit for this one, but I think Rodgers should be allowed to have a crack next season, even if just for 'the devil you know' reasons. Let him know in the break that the team needs to hit the ground running, but if he's not doing a decent job and the team aren't around the top 10 by mid season, sack him the way Villa did to Smith. 

[MUFC]

Just now, Devil-Dick Willie said:

I might cop shit for this one, but I think Rodgers should be allowed to have a crack next season, even if just for 'the devil you know' reasons. Let him know in the break that the team needs to hit the ground running, but if he's not doing a decent job and the team aren't around the top 10 by mid season, sack him the way Villa did to Smith. 

 

[Stan]

1 minute ago, The Palace Fan said:

@Stan @Dan do you think it's a case of a manager naturally coming to the end of his cycle at a club?  As a neutral I think @Inverted has nailed it with the stubborness preventing Rodgers being a top manager. I know the squad has had to heavily rotate due to frequent injuries and other priorities but for Leicester to still be conceding so many set piece goals given the rate they were conceding them at the start of the season is ludicrous.

It feels like you're heading towards a big transition period. Tielemans has allegedly said he's not signing an extension, Jamie Vardy is naturally not going to be as prolific as previous seasons, Johnny Evans is still carrying a lot of responsibility for a player his age too. The only player from 'the old guard' that's bought so much success we may see next season is Kasper Schmeichel. 

It's hard to tell what you're going to get with Leicester's recruitment. One summer you'll uncover players like Fofana and Castagne who you can see being an integral part of the club for as long as theyre fit. Then the next summer you'll bring in names like Soumare and Vestergaard who tick all the boxes but don't seem to make any sort of impact.

Yep.

Someone on our Leicester forum posted that he was at Liverpool and Celtic for a very similar amount of games (approx 160-170) before he left. He's at the same point now.

There's a group of players that will naturally leave due to age or end of career - Vardy, Evans, Schmeichel, Albrighton.

Rodgers mentioned a while back that the squad needs a 'rebuild'. At the time I wasn't so fussed and brushed it off as something a manager just says in the media. But thinking about it more, it's not the squad, it's the style. We have a decent squad to build around. And should be doing so around the likes of Fofana, Maddison, Dewsbury-Hall, Daka, Iheanacho, Ndidi, Barnes, Castagne, Justin etc...

I accepted a while ago that Tielemans was gone. Partly because of the contract situation but also because he's genuinely been one of the worst performers in the squad since around Nov/Dec. You can just tell with some players his head isn't in it and he's one of them right now. 

The set-piece thing is bordering on bizarre too - you can advocate for a small patch/spell in a season where a side will concede similar types of goals. But for a whole season, even through last season too? It's just a sign of ignorance really - if you have a problem you address it. And that's not what has appeared to happened. 

You can also advocate that a lot of the season was hampered by injuries but even when we've had key players back, because Rodgers sticks with the same style which is far too defensive, slow, tepid, laborious, it means the players who can be game-changers then lose that ability. The first 12 months of his stint here was brilliant - all the players that could make a difference were having the freedom to do so and it showed in our results, consistency, momentum etc. We've totally lost that because Rodgers style of play eliminates it, sucks out the fluidity of how we know we can play.

You're right, too. recruitment this season is big - but I don't think we need a refresh as suggested by Rodgers. There's enough of a squad there to build around. 

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

I might cop shit for this one, but I think Rodgers should be allowed to have a crack next season, even if just for 'the devil you know' reasons. Let him know in the break that the team needs to hit the ground running, but if he's not doing a decent job and the team aren't around the top 10 by mid season, sack him the way Villa did to Smith. 

Genuinely, I was in agreement with this stance until yesterday. After the exit on Thursday, yesterday was a great time to just release the handbrake, so to speak, and play without pressure. But it didn't happen.

Having looked into how Rodgers recruits - both here and other clubs - it's not always been the best. Bertrand and Vestegaard being signed last summer have been horrendous. The question is should Rodgers be trusted for a summer like this one to 'rebuild'? It worries me that generally decent players will be let go and we'll get players in that fit the style of play for Rodgers but is totally energy-sapping for any watching crowd.

It's like he wants to be like how Pep/Man City play, but without any of the attacking intent. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

17 minutes ago, Stan said:

Genuinely, I was in agreement with this stance until yesterday. After the exit on Thursday, yesterday was a great time to just release the handbrake, so to speak, and play without pressure. But it didn't happen.

Having looked into how Rodgers recruits - both here and other clubs - it's not always been the best. Bertrand and Vestegaard being signed last summer have been horrendous. The question is should Rodgers be trusted for a summer like this one to 'rebuild'? It worries me that generally decent players will be let go and we'll get players in that fit the style of play for Rodgers but is totally energy-sapping for any watching crowd.

It's like he wants to be like how Pep/Man City play, but without any of the attacking intent. 

Who do you bring in the summer and trust with the job of replacing the aged squad players, Vardy, and Tielemans? 

[Stan]

3 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

Who do you bring in the summer and trust with the job of replacing the aged squad players, Vardy, and Tielemans? 

That's the million dollar question  

Thankfully it's not my job to decide if Rodgers is given the boot. 

Some fans have touted the likes of Rudi Garcia or Arne Slot, and others have gone closer to home i.e. Graham Potter.

[Danny]

I think Rodgers has the ability to turn this side around, but I think to do that they need to shift a few players on and bring in some fresh minds. As much as I think Rodgers can do it long term at Leicester it’s starting to get to a point now where he might get the sack 

[LFCMike]

13 minutes ago, Stan said:

That's the million dollar question  

Thankfully it's not my job to decide if Rodgers is given the boot. 

Some fans have touted the likes of Rudi Garcia or Arne Slot, and others have gone closer to home i.e. Graham Potter.

How much influence does Rodgers have on recruitment? If it's a DoF type model then I can see the argument for giving him a chance to turn it around. If he's heavily involved in the recruitment process then I'm not sure Leicester should trust him with whatever budget they may have in the summer.

[RandoEFC+]

Admittedly, I didn't realise until this weekend quite how far down the table Leicester have fallen but at the same time, they're one win away from the top half. The mid-table pack are very close this season and Leicester have played a lot of extra games with a run to a European semi-final. In another season that might put you 10th instead of 8th but this season, it's dropped them into the depths of the bottom half. Still, Leicester fans are entitled to have ambitions above solid mid-table after the last few years they've had.

I'm not sure the squad is that great. Jamie Vardy finally appears to have reached the wrong side of his peak years which has cost them a fair few points. The rest of the squad appears to have a lot of solid players but they seem to be missing those real standouts. Maddison seems to have become unreliable, Tielemans starting to look like he's achieved what he came to Leicester to do and waiting for the next move. You have to hand it to the youth model though with Justin, Dewsbury-Hall, the other full back whose name I forget (Thomas?) coming in and adding quality and depth to the first team squad. Overall, though, it all looks quite disjointed compared to where they were a couple of years ago. Whether that's because of Rodgers or the way they've had to adapt the team so it isn't built around trying to feed Jamie Vardy, a combination of those factors and other things, I don't know.

I'd still argue that Leicester have trended upwards under Rodgers and that the league form this season should be forgiven to some extent for a good run in Europe but the clubs' fans always know better than those looking in from the outside. It's really hard to recruit managers though. When Rodgers came in, he was a safe and obvious choice after his success at Celtic. I don't know who's currently available for Leicester. Bringing managers in from overseas is always a risk and goes badly more often than it goes well unless you can bring in a known success story like Guardiola or Klopp but Leicester aren't shopping in that market. I think they're best off giving him the chance to bounce back next season personally.

[RandoEFC+]

Also a bit mad how we've gone full circle from "If Everton can't beat Leicester, we should shut down the club" to "If Leicester can't beat Everton, that's a sackable offence in and of itself" .

[Stan]

25 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

How much influence does Rodgers have on recruitment? If it's a DoF type model then I can see the argument for giving him a chance to turn it around. If he's heavily involved in the recruitment process then I'm not sure Leicester should trust him with whatever budget they may have in the summer.

I think he pulls a lot of weight in it. His choice to sign Bertrand and Vestegaard. It's signings like that which negate a lot of other decent signings (Daka, Fofana, Castagne). 

8 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Admittedly, I didn't realise until this weekend quite how far down the table Leicester have fallen but at the same time, they're one win away from the top half. The mid-table pack are very close this season and Leicester have played a lot of extra games with a run to a European semi-final. In another season that might put you 10th instead of 8th but this season, it's dropped them into the depths of the bottom half. Still, Leicester fans are entitled to have ambitions above solid mid-table after the last few years they've had.

I'm not sure the squad is that great. Jamie Vardy finally appears to have reached the wrong side of his peak years which has cost them a fair few points. The rest of the squad appears to have a lot of solid players but they seem to be missing those real standouts. Maddison seems to have become unreliable, Tielemans starting to look like he's achieved what he came to Leicester to do and waiting for the next move. You have to hand it to the youth model though with Justin, Dewsbury-Hall, the other full back whose name I forget (Thomas?) coming in and adding quality and depth to the first team squad. Overall, though, it all looks quite disjointed compared to where they were a couple of years ago. Whether that's because of Rodgers or the way they've had to adapt the team so it isn't built around trying to feed Jamie Vardy, a combination of those factors and other things, I don't know.

I'd still argue that Leicester have trended upwards under Rodgers and that the league form this season should be forgiven to some extent for a good run in Europe but the clubs' fans always know better than those looking in from the outside. It's really hard to recruit managers though. When Rodgers came in, he was a safe and obvious choice after his success at Celtic. I don't know who's currently available for Leicester. Bringing managers in from overseas is always a risk and goes badly more often than it goes well unless you can bring in a known success story like Guardiola or Klopp but Leicester aren't shopping in that market. I think they're best off giving him the chance to bounce back next season personally.

Whole post is fine but what is this bit in bold .

Arguably having his best season with us in terms of influence, and has the goals/assists to back it up. He was heavily missed yesterday. 

14 goals and 9 assists all comps this season

11 and 10 in 2020/21

9 and 3 in 2019/20

7 and 7 in 2018/19

The only unreliability (not shown this season so far) was his injury record - he'd hit good form and then pick up an injury, then lose that form because he'd be out for a lengthy amount of time. 

 Also, Fofana is a real standout. He'll most definitely go on to bigger and better things. 

 

[RandoEFC+]

35 minutes ago, Stan said:

Whole post is fine but what is this bit in bold .

This is what happens when fans of other teams comment based on half a dozen times they've seen another side play.

Unlike many, instead of doubling down, I'll hold my hands up and accept I'm wrong if that's the case.

[Inverted]

I feel like there was a story or a period of time in the news when the vibe was that Maddison was out of favour and not really a staple in the team, because I kinda had that impression too.

The thing is, it's quite easy for those kinds of stories to just tail off without any real follow-up in the headlines. The memory remains and your impression isn't contradicted unless you are actually paying close attention week-in week-out.

[Dan+]

10 hours ago, The Palace Fan said:

@Stan @Dan do you think it's a case of a manager naturally coming to the end of his cycle at a club?  As a neutral I think @Inverted has nailed it with the stubborness preventing Rodgers being a top manager. I know the squad has had to heavily rotate due to frequent injuries and other priorities but for Leicester to still be conceding so many set piece goals given the rate they were conceding them at the start of the season is ludicrous.

It feels like you're heading towards a big transition period. Tielemans has allegedly said he's not signing an extension, Jamie Vardy is naturally not going to be as prolific as previous seasons, Johnny Evans is still carrying a lot of responsibility for a player his age too. The only player from 'the old guard' that's bought so much success we may see next season is Kasper Schmeichel. 

It's hard to tell what you're going to get with Leicester's recruitment. One summer you'll uncover players like Fofana and Castagne who you can see being an integral part of the club for as long as theyre fit. Then the next summer you'll bring in names like Soumare and Vestergaard who tick all the boxes but don't seem to make any sort of impact.

I think it's that but I'm really beginning to dislike the way he's going about it now. I'm not even talking about just the underperformance on the pitch which undoubtedly exists, but the way he's gone about it, particularly yesterday has really annoyed me. If we were what he described us as, he would've never even come to us in the first place.

This transition period is interesting. I agree we're heading for one. I think part of it is natural and I think part of it is Rodgers over-egging it to take heat off himself. It's another discrete way of blaming the players and club rather than himself. After yesterdays comments, it's hard to not perceive anything he says as self preservation anymore.

We've just appointed a new head of recruitment to replace the outgoing Lee Congerton, Martyn Glover once of Everton, Southampton, Sunderland. Really don't know what to make of him but the key for me is that the club goes back to some sort of pre 2019 recruitment model and doesn't allow the manager too heavy a say. It's doing that that's resulted in Rodgers wasting money. He is just simply bad at recruitment. He'd be a better manager to stay out of it.

 

10 hours ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

I might cop shit for this one, but I think Rodgers should be allowed to have a crack next season, even if just for 'the devil you know' reasons. Let him know in the break that the team needs to hit the ground running, but if he's not doing a decent job and the team aren't around the top 10 by mid season, sack him the way Villa did to Smith. 

No it's a fair enough opinion. I can see why people think it. I just think things are even worse than the table makes them look (maybe not now we're down in 14th albeit with kind games in hand). The performances have been poor for a good 15 months now. We're poor defensively and any slight improvement we make there seems to come at the expense of anything going forward. We've been particularly dire going forward for the last couple of months. I understand the argument of credit in the bank but I'd make this decision based on plenty of evidence this season. The set piece problem stretches back two years. This is a fundamental coaching issue and he's either not bothered about addressing it, or simply isn't capable. He said a year ago we need more aggression, more physicality. A year on and he's still saying it. Well who's fault is that then?

For me he plays a style of football about 10 years out of date.

[RandoEFC+]

3 hours ago, Dan said:

Martyn Glover once of Everton

Uh oh.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I think Leicester should have sacked Rodgers in January, but the next best time is when the season's over. Once rotting sets in, I've got no faith in his ability to stop that rot. It'll get worse before it gets better, and it only really gets better once he's sacked (from our experience).

[Dan+]

15 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Uh oh.

Don't do this.

His CV doesn't fill me with much excitement, heard mixed things about him so far though. I think the crucial thing is he oversees a recruitment model like we had prior to around 2019. No more signings like Perez, Vestergaard or Bertrand. More signings like Justin, Daka and Fofana. I feel like we've had a bit of a phase where certain people are making some signings and some are making others.

We need another summer 2018. Ricardo, Evans, Soyuncu and Maddison all in one window. Unreal.

 

15 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think Leicester should have sacked Rodgers in January, but the next best time is when the season's over. Once rotting sets in, I've got no faith in his ability to stop that rot. It'll get worse before it gets better, and it only really gets better once he's sacked (from our experience).

To be fair to him, he did pick things up in the summer of 2020 after an end of season where I remember us having plenty of concerns about his lack of previous in picking a team up from a downer.

But to me the problem is we've been poor for ages. I don't think this last month or so is anything out of the ordinary. I think it's been coming. I never totally bought our mini revival around two months ago and I've been proven right sadly. No wins in 7 in all comps, terrible going forward, haven't scored more than 2 in a league game since boxing day (a game we lost 6-3) and still seemingly haven't sorted out a problem that virtually every neutral is aware of, that's costing us a goal in what feels like half of our games.

The time is now for me. If we do it now he will go down as doing well here, but the malaise has kicked in. I think by giving him the first 10/15 of next year you're prolonging the inevitable. I'm only in favour of giving him any time early next season if he isn't allowed to make any signing without approval from the scouts, which I can't guarantee will happen.

I just don't see how it comes good again. Surely the players cannot hear those sorts of comments and feel more motivated to do well for him, or us. He always gives off the impression that he thinks he's too good for us. I don't buy it.

[RandoEFC+]

2 minutes ago, Dan said:

Don't do this.

His CV doesn't fill me with much excitement, heard mixed things about him so far though. I think the crucial thing is he oversees a recruitment model like we had prior to around 2019.

I've genuinely never heard of him to be honest, which means he probably wasn't involved in the Steve Walsh or Marcel Brands recruitment teams when I started paying attention to that stuff.

If he was involved with recruitment for us during the David Moyes era then you might be onto a winner. We didn't drop too many clangers during that era.

But yeah, I meant to say earlier, the signings of Vestergaard and Bertrand were a bit odd and not in keeping with what's made Leicester a success story over the past few years.

4 minutes ago, Dan said:

He always gives off the impression that he thinks he's too good for us.

I do see what you're saying with this. Always had a bit of that vibe about him, even when he was at Liverpool.

[Dan+]

8 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I've genuinely never heard of him to be honest, which means he probably wasn't involved in the Steve Walsh or Marcel Brands recruitment teams when I started paying attention to that stuff.

If he was involved with recruitment for us during the David Moyes era then you might be onto a winner. We didn't drop too many clangers during that era.

But yeah, I meant to say earlier, the signings of Vestergaard and Bertrand were a bit odd and not in keeping with what's made Leicester a success story over the past few years.

I do see what you're saying with this. Always had a bit of that vibe about him, even when he was at Liverpool.

He's worked a lot with Allardyce as much as anybody, which I quite like because I've always thought Allardyce's recruitment for the most part has been OK. Was very ahead of his time at one point. Granted when I think back to Everton Allardyce I just think Walcott and Tosun who are both very meh and not the types I want.

Bertrand would've been fine if he hadn't dropped off so much. I completely understood the idea of signing him on a free, experienced in the league and we had a young left back coming through so it made sense. He's been appalling though and he hasn't played all year. Southampton fans did warn us when we signed him that he was done and they're right. He should be playing for Leyton Orient and I'm deadly serious.

Vestergaard's just bad. I can't believe how dominant he isn't, for his size. Clumsy, weak and slow. Got a nice pass though.

What's worrying is of our 5 signings, 3 have been virtually totally cast aside. If we have a repeat of that we're going to buy ourselves into the bottom half, where Europe would be a genuine miracle. Some of our better players are past it as well now. I think we've definitely had the best of Vardy now. Schmeichel too. Probably Evans as well.

I do think Rodgers sees himself very highly, which in a way is good, he's confident and you need it, but honestly - I don't think he's too big for us, nor do I think we are him. I thought at the time of the appointment it was as good a match as you could get. It's just done now. I'm absolutely sure it is.

[Stan]

10 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I've genuinely never heard of him to be honest, which means he probably wasn't involved in the Steve Walsh or Marcel Brands recruitment teams when I started paying attention to that stuff.

If he was involved with recruitment for us during the David Moyes era then you might be onto a winner. We didn't drop too many clangers during that era.

But yeah, I meant to say earlier, the signings of Vestergaard and Bertrand were a bit odd and not in keeping with what's made Leicester a success story over the past few years.

I do see what you're saying with this. Always had a bit of that vibe about him, even when he was at Liverpool.

Was there at 2016-2019 before Southampton got him.

Given some of Southampton's recruitment in recent seasons it gives me hope.

But to be honest, it's hard to gauge until he starts doing things here. Every single club goes through phases of good recruitment and bad. Some more favourable and consistent (in both aspects) than others. But no one ever gets it perfect.

We just need to go back to our model of finding gems and being shrewd and astute. We've shown we can work that way and shown how it can be successful for the most part. Maybe hiring Glover will allow that for us.