UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[Stan]

Yeah I think you're right @The Palace Fan no one reads my posts  

[RandoEFC+]

25 minutes ago, Stan said:

Yeah I think you're right @The Palace Fan no one reads my posts  

Too many words in the one you posted .

[Burning Gold]

10 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I disagree, remainers were well within their rights to keep saying Brexit was a bad idea and were well within their rights to campaign for a second referendum last year when it became apparent that most of what won the Leave campaign the referendum was built on lies.

The second referendum campaign has had absolutely no impact on whether it's a hard or soft Brexit. The Tories had a majority government and they couldn't get any sort of Brexit anywhere near complete. They still have a majority government now, and they won't be able to pass a soft Brexit through parliament. Why? Because they can't get the nut job ERG wing of the party to get on board with any compromise and the mainstream Tories are terrified of Farage coming out of the woodwork to steal the Rule Britannia vote from them. Why should Remainers take the heat if they can't even get their own party to vote for any sort of Brexit?

At some point, Brexiters are going to have to own Brexit. We all have to compromise and I don't want it to be I told you so because that only leads to more division and is going to actively encourage those who still believe in Brexit to keep denying facts and reality rather than eventually changing their mind.

Continuing to campaign for what you believe in is basic democracy and Remainers should not apologise for fighting for what they believe in. The polls have said for 2-3 years almost uninterrupted that the majority agree with them on this issue.

Pretending that it's partially our fault for fighting against it just enables the Tories not to take responsibility for this insane, damaging policy that they've pursued at all costs, and god knows with this current shower in charge you know they don't need a second invitation to say "it's not my fault, look over there!"

Remainers literally voted down soft Brexit in parliament because they wanted to go all in on a second referendum. We agree that they're within their rights to do that, but you can't just wash your hands of responsibility for the consequences when your plan is a massive hail mary that relies on a Conservative government voluntarily ceding ground and cancelling Brexit.

Of course Boris Johnson's Conservative government aren't going to pass soft Brexit. Last year's election gave them a huge mandate to push Brexit through at a time when the debate had changed to become simply hard Brexit vs Remain, due in no small part to the fact no one was backing soft Brexit. But May's minority government would've jumped at the chance to get a Brexit deal done, any Brexit deal, had parliament approved soft Brexit. The voters would've let them as well; the pro-Brexit mood was a lot less hardline at that time and it could've been sold as a victory of soft Brexit over no Brexit, a possibility that went out of the window somewhere between that vote and Johnson becoming PM and turning the debate into hard Brexit vs no deal.

To reiterate, Brexit is absolutely on the hands of the Conservatives and their assorted conspirators, but the remain strategy left this possibility wide open when it didn't need to

[RandoEFC+]

6 minutes ago, Burning Gold said:

Remainers literally voted down soft Brexit in parliament because they wanted to go all in on a second referendum. We agree that they're within their rights to do that, but you can't just wash your hands of responsibility for the consequences when your plan is a massive hail mary that relies on a Conservative government voluntarily ceding ground and cancelling Brexit.

Of course Boris Johnson's Conservative government aren't going to pass soft Brexit. Last year's election gave them a huge mandate to push Brexit through at a time when the debate had changed to become simply hard Brexit vs Remain, due in no small part to the fact no one was backing soft Brexit. But May's minority government would've jumped at the chance to get a Brexit deal done, any Brexit deal, had parliament approved soft Brexit. The voters would've let them as well; the pro-Brexit mood was a lot less hardline at that time and it could've been sold as a victory of soft Brexit over no Brexit, a possibility that went out of the window somewhere between that vote and Johnson becoming PM and turning the debate into hard Brexit vs no deal.

To reiterate, Brexit is absolutely on the hands of the Conservatives and their assorted conspirators, but the remain strategy left this possibility wide open when it didn't need to

I do get what you're saying but it's not like backing a soft Brexit was good for the UK either. If I was an MP, I couldn't have voted for it in good conscience. As soon as you vote in favour of Brexit, it's not longer a 'remain' strategy really. 

[Bluewolf]

So they have sacked an MP they believe has leaked info.... and they quoted the Ministerial Code.. 

The sooner we get shot of this fat cake eating clown the better... sadly though all the damage has been done already and he won't be held accountable for any of it

Andrew Lewer was fired from his role as a parliamentary private secretary at the Home Office following a "canary trap" sting, led by chief whip Mark Spencer.

An image of the letter found its way onto the Guido Fawkes blog on Thursday.

But Mr Lewer denied being the mole, telling Politico: “In nearly 20 years of elected office I have never leaked to the press.”

The letter was sent out to MPs with minor differences to catch out unsuspecting leakers, allowing Spencer to identify the source.

In the letter, Spencer had warned that the Prime Minister's foreword to the ministerial code "strictly prohibits" leaking, saying: "Please keep this in the forefront of your mind; the position you hold is a privilege and not a right."

He added: "If you violate any aspect of the Ministerial Code you will be removed from your position with immediate effect. No “mitigating circumstances” will be acknowledged or accepted."

[RandoEFC+]

He should have just said that he didn't realise he was leaking to the press when he was leaking to the press, and because he only broke the ministerial code by accident, then it doesn't count. Hasn't he been paying attention?

[Burning Gold]

New measures have been leaked early to the press every single time since we started this in about March. Why are they only doing this now? 

[Stan]

I swear the ministerial code has been broken several times but people didn't get the sack for it? 

[RandoEFC+]

38 minutes ago, Stan said:

I swear the ministerial code has been broken several times but people didn't get the sack for it? 

My understanding was that Patel was the first time since the 70s or something that didn't get sacked for it.

[Stan]

10 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

My understanding was that Patel was the first time since the 70s or something that didn't get sacked for it.

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise. 

[Inverted]

On 19/12/2020 at 17:42, Stan said:

I swear the ministerial code has been broken several times but people didn't get the sack for it? 

Customarily it's expected (which is an almost concrete, but not legally binding, obligation) that a minister will resign when found in breach of the code. 

But that kind of mechanism only works with normal politicians. It doesn't work when your government is run by a clique of media stooges and robber barons who only want power in order to siphon-off public funds to themselves and their mates.

[RandoEFC+]

Starmer's got this one wrong (by a long shot) for me. I get he's trying to stop Johnson from having the opportunity to paint him as a traitorous unpatriotic Remainer but you have to show the country that the national interest comes above politics because that's one of the ways he needs to distinguish himself from Johnson. 

Starmer has called the second lockdown right and now the shambles of Christmas week while Johnson laughed him off like the class clown he is only to be proven to be a complete witless moron within a matter of days. Labour need to do a better job of rubbing this in and making sure this cuts through so that the wider public see it. I know they're scared of being accused of politicising the pandemic but at some point you have to stop being scared and oppose the government. It's in the national interest to expose Johnson's utter stupidity and incompetence to the public at times like this. It might even cause him to think twice before promising the world to the public only to be proven stupid again. (Or we might see pigs fly).

It's not just the right thing for the country but it's also politically wise to call for an extension to the transition period now. If Johnson disagrees which he probably will, then it's another example of Starmer having better foresight and general intelligence than Johnson when we have utter chaos in 11 days time.

[Stan]

Boris to make announcement at 5pm...

[Burning Gold]

3 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Starmer's got this one wrong (by a long shot) for me. I get he's trying to stop Johnson from having the opportunity to paint him as a traitorous unpatriotic Remainer but you have to show the country that the national interest comes above politics because that's one of the ways he needs to distinguish himself from Johnson. 

Starmer has called the second lockdown right and now the shambles of Christmas week while Johnson laughed him off like the class clown he is only to be proven to be a complete witless moron within a matter of days. Labour need to do a better job of rubbing this in and making sure this cuts through so that the wider public see it. I know they're scared of being accused of politicising the pandemic but at some point you have to stop being scared and oppose the government. It's in the national interest to expose Johnson's utter stupidity and incompetence to the public at times like this. It might even cause him to think twice before promising the world to the public only to be proven stupid again. (Or we might see pigs fly).

It's not just the right thing for the country but it's also politically wise to call for an extension to the transition period now. If Johnson disagrees which he probably will, then it's another example of Starmer having better foresight and general intelligence than Johnson when we have utter chaos in 11 days time.

The only thing I can think is that he's decided to start trying to run the country by reverse psychology, because otherwise you're spot on

[Stan]

I hate our government. 

 

 

 

[SchalkeUK]

Stan hates the government!

Try this:

The same clever intelligent British Public who voted in Johnson and determined that we leave Europe declared on Saturday that Bill Bailey won 'Strictly Come Dancing'.

'nuff said!

[Inverted]

24 minutes ago, SchalkeUK said:

Stan hates the government!

Try this:

The same clever intelligent British Public who voted in Johnson and determined that we leave Europe declared on Saturday that Bill Bailey won 'Strictly Come Dancing'.

'nuff said!

Luv me Brexit.

Luv me Strictly.

'ate Lockdown.

'ate Remoaners.

Simple as.

[SchalkeUK]

10 minutes ago, Inverted said:

Luv me Brexit.

Luv me Strictly.

'ate Lockdown.

'ate Remoaners.

Simple as.

Tell that to your local voters - I know which of us will suffer most!

[God is Haaland]

21 hours ago, Inverted said:

Luv me Brexit.

Luv me Strictly.

'ate Lockdown.

'ate Remoaners.

Simple as.

Carnt weet t' gerr'ar fish back from fook'n Pierre like, 'longs t'us dunnit? Simple as like, gorra luv bulldog bozza sennin' are navy lads in, sort vose bloodeh shirteh continennuls owt, put 'em in veir place like gerrum t' pipe down, 'e dunt bloodeh muck around! Luv me captain bullseye fishfingurs me, an'now wiv ate Brexit get 'em cheeper at Iceland like, propa pukka tha', carnt weet t' sit on sofa wotchin' t' norf la's giv' vem soufers good fook'n bel'in' on Sky Sports on t' noo tele wiv me fish finger barm, fook'n 'appeh dehs

Fumin'

[RandoEFC+]

 

[RandoEFC+]

It's obviously great that we've got a deal. I don't know the detail but any deal is better than no deal. Hopefully things won't be too bad after all.

Whilst watching Ursula von der Leyen's professional and dignified speech on Sky News I then opened Twitter and the first thing I see is this cringeworthy photo op on the PM's official account. Some contrast...

 

[Stan]

Hope this includes the £350m/week for NHS... 

 

 

[RandoEFC+]

Between the government's propaganda and the right wing press calling for Boris Johnson statues to line the coast from Cornwall to Hadrian's Wall it's probably going to take a fair amount of time to find out the actual detail of the detail and how it's going to affect our lives.

No amount of specticism can stop us from acknowledging though that whether it's a bare minimum deal or actually a decent deal, it can't be worse than the no deal scenario. Today is a day to be relieved, or at least try to.

[Bluewolf]

1 minute ago, RandoEFC said:

It's obviously great that we've got a deal. I don't know the detail but any deal is better than no deal. Hopefully things won't be too bad after all.

Whilst watching Ursula von der Leyen's professional and dignified speech on Sky News I then opened Twitter and the first thing I see is this cringeworthy photo op on the PM's official account. Some contrast...

 

As you say, good that we have one ( whatever it may be ) Now watch him spend the next few weeks beating his chest like King Kong and hoping it will distract everyone for a while from the Covid situation we are all in... 

[RandoEFC+]

Just now, Bluewolf said:

beating his chest like King Kong