UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[Bluewolf]

They did a big breaking news logo this morning just to tell us there is actually no news.. 

Stop wasting our time... 

[Bluewolf]

So the report is being held up then.. 

I have to say this shocks me to the core with these unforeseen turn of events... 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Bluewolf

[Carnivore Chris]

 

 

[Stan]

Coked up and/or drunk. Either way, an embarrassment.

[RandoEFC+]

Seen some "highlights" of Johnson's performance in the Commons earlier. An absolute disgrace. He was already a disgrace before he became Prime Minister and yet he somehow manages to keep digging.

There are still people defending him out there as well, and the pressure from his backbenchers and votes of no confidence doesn't sound like it's at tipping point. It's literally incredible. Labour currently lead in the polls but not by enough. The low esteem in which people still willing to vote for this leader and this party after all of this hold themselves is absolutely depressing.

If he gets re-elected at the next General election then I'm afraid this country deserves what it gets. 

Tragic. Imagine looking at that man, and simultaneously convincing yourself that he's the best the country has to offer and that you love said country.

[Bluewolf]

 

[LFCMike]

Interesting that Johnson brought the Savile thing up with Starmer in parliament given his previous view was that money was being 'spaffed up the wall' on historic abuse cases.

 

[RandoEFC+]

Downing Street continuing to disintegrate tonight.

Usually I roll my eyes at the social media people who still try to bring up Corbyn but this tweet was very apt I thought.

See also David Cameron's "chaos with Ed Miliband" slogan. This was before the further resignations from basically all of the 10 Downing Street staff later this evening too.

I actually can't keep up with the news anymore. It's so hard to see anything else going on besides the skip fire in Westminster, but there was some big change with the Irish Sea border (which BoZo told us never existed once right? Lolz) last night which I don't understand. Another Northern Irish First Minister resigned as well (or just withdrew from Stormont?) which is the third (fourth?) one in the space of 12 months or something. The point is, even if you still somehow like "Boris" or this bunch, it's a case of a scandal a day keeps the actual governance away. Massive fucking issues like the cost of living crisis and Russia are just sideshows to the daily psychodrama of this government and this Prime Minister.

It's insane. I know it's not exactly a fresh perspective but years from now, people will study the 2010s in British politics and try to work out just how the Conservative party managed to serve up three such god-awful, irredeemable Prime Ministers in a row (and counting) over the course of a decade, and how the Labour party were unable to topple them at 3-4 consecutive elections (and counting). The country actually chooses this shit, that's the terrifying thing.

Every scare story that's been dreamt up about Labour or progressive politicians in general has been played out in some shape or form by this string of Conservative governments time and again, they end up self-destructing time and again, more quickly each time as they burn through any vaguely talented individuals at their disposal. And still, there are MILLIONS of people out there who are pathologically terrified of a non-Tory government because they've been so effectively groomed to believe that if a Labour leader sets foot in Downing Street, they'll lose all of their money, their job, their house and all of their clothes overnight.

When people who didn't live through this sit down and have time to comb through all the stuff that's happened over the past few years, it's going to be an absolute mammoth task making sense of any of it because so little of it follows any logic anymore.

[6666]

Not new news, in fact it's extremely old news but stumbled across this video while trying to get to sleep.

I knew Churchill was a disaster bastard but didn't know it was to this extent. A drunk, violent, untrustworthy, clown of a man. The man could probably rival Hitler as the world biggest cunt.

[Stan]

I physically hate her. She's never in her constituency, pretends to speak for us, and just hasn't a clue about being an MP, let alone a minister. 

She's vile, sly, vindictive and just downright pathetic. 

 

[RandoEFC+]

On 05/02/2022 at 09:52, Stan said:

I physically hate her. She's never in her constituency, pretends to speak for us, and just hasn't a clue about being an MP, let alone a minister. 

She's vile, sly, vindictive and just downright pathetic. 

 

I didn't know she was your MP? This interview was embarrassing, as was her interview on C4 a few days earlier. She's so bad all around. No redeeming qualities, just a nasty, confrontational piece of work that will parrot any government line in front of the cameras and on social media because she knows she'll never be as high up again after Johnson falls. At least most of the others have the decency to look uncomfortable when they're asked to defend the indefensible.

[Guest]

I cant believe boris is still prime minister to be honest.  Even most conservatives want him to go. The only ones that back him are the really stubborn ones who cant admit they got him wrong 

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 06/02/2022 at 09:40, Gunnersauraus said:

I cant believe boris is still prime minister to be honest.  Even most conservatives want him to go. The only ones that back him are the really stubborn ones who cant admit they got him wrong 

It's the "fan" mindset brought to politics. Enough Tories admitting Johnson should go would mean an admission that "they got him wrong" ... an admission like that makes them look bad and gives rival "teams" (like Labour and Lib Dem) something to attack them with.

Rather than care about the good of the country, they've picked "their side" and they don't want "their side to lose" ... it's a bad trap for the electorate to fall into. But it's an effective way to get conservatives to go along with anything the party says and does.

And I don't think the media really helps the electorate all too much - because a PM mired in scandal gets them clicks which gets them ad revenue. So it's kind of in their interest to be pushing a narrative of "will he stay or will he go?" so they can keep the story going on for as long as possible and hope that in the meantime Boris does something else that keeps him in the headlines and under pressure. I think the media's less interested in having a good government running the country than they are in having constant chaos to report to us.

[LFCMike]

People stopping calling him 'Boris' as if he's their mate would be a good start. 

[RandoEFC+]

 

Absolute tinpot stuff in the UK yet again. What are we getting for this by the way? The price is the actual Prime Minister making a mockery of democracy and public discourse. What is the payoff? A question that doesn't get asked anymore because we all know there are no answers. All of the past 7 years in British politics have happened because that horrible, scruffy cunt thinks it's all a big game and not enough people that can actually do something about it care enough about right and wrong to do so.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, LFCMike said:

People stopping calling him 'Boris' as if he's their mate would be a good start. 

I just call him cunt 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, RondónEFC said:

 

Absolute tinpot stuff in the UK yet again. What are we getting for this by the way? The price is the actual Prime Minister making a mockery of democracy and public discourse. What is the payoff? A question that doesn't get asked anymore because we all know there are no answers. All of the past 7 years in British politics have happened because that horrible, scruffy cunt thinks it's all a big game and not enough people that can actually do something about it care enough about right and wrong to do so.

What they're getting out of this is getting the people who'll support them no matter what to harass political opponents not based on actual political policies or whether or not they'd be a better leader than the idiot they've foisted into the PM job... but to harass him over made-up bullshit & to spread that made up bullshit to anyone who's listening but hasn't paid close enough attention.

Politicians like Johnson wouldn't try (successfully, I might add) to treat this like a game if they knew the electorate wouldn't also treat it like one. But sadly, that's not where we are as a society.

[RandoEFC+]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

What they're getting out of this is getting the people who'll support them no matter what to harass political opponents not based on actual political policies or whether or not they'd be a better leader than the idiot they've foisted into the PM job... but to harass him over made-up bullshit & to spread that made up bullshit to anyone who's listening but hasn't paid close enough attention.

Politicians like Johnson wouldn't try (successfully, I might add) to treat this like a game if they knew the electorate wouldn't also treat it like one. But sadly, that's not where we are as a society.

This just isn't true anymore though. Boris Johnson's approval ratings are in the gutter now. These idiots screaming about far right conspiracy theories are in a vanishingly small minority while the majority of the country have turned on Johnson and want him to resign. The novelty has worn off, and it's long overdue.

I don't know what the Tory MPs, the only people who can really put a stop to him before he sends us even further down the Trumpian path, are waiting for. Johnson is no longer doing them any good. He hasn't been doing most of us any good for a long time but at least it made sense that they'd prop him up as he was an electoral asset. Now he's long past the point of no return, even to his own party.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, RondónEFC said:

This just isn't true anymore though. Boris Johnson's approval ratings are in the gutter now. These idiots screaming about far right conspiracy theories are in a vanishingly small minority while the majority of the country have turned on Johnson and want him to resign. The novelty has worn off, and it's long overdue.

I don't know what the Tory MPs, the only people who can really put a stop to him before he sends us even further down the Trumpian path, are waiting for. Johnson is no longer doing them any good. He hasn't been doing most of us any good for a long time but at least it made sense that they'd prop him up as he was an electoral asset. Now he's long past the point of no return, even to his own party.

I think those MPs are just acting like it is true and hoping he can ride out the storm. That "vanishingly small minority" are probably larger than we think and have a surprisingly large sway over "moderate voters" who can be pulled one way or another based off emotion rather than based off policy. There are a few politicians that have a gift for making these screeching idiots go rabid as we've seen over the past few years.

I suspect those MPs don't want Johnson loyalists to turn on the rest of the party. Infighting with Labour has been a great way of keeping Labour out of power, I suspect internal conflict within a party that's been pretty good at keeping members at falling in line is probably terrifying for them. You couple that with a media that loves a PM mired in controversy for the clicks and you get a load of Tory MPs that don't give a shit about what the public really thinks if they think they can potentially ride the storm.

Although I think at some point, the Tories may need to wash the stink of Johnson off them before there's a general election.

[Bluewolf]

[RandoEFC+]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

That "vanishingly small minority" are probably larger than we think and have a surprisingly large sway over "moderate voters" who can be pulled one way or another based off emotion rather than based off policy

We're talking about the proper QAnon fringes here. I agree that they're a frighteningly large minority in the US but over here they're rightly seen as mental head-bangers by almost everyone. The people who will still vote Tory anyway will do so because they're middle class, home owning, rural "alright Jack" types who buy into the myth that Labour wants to take all their stuff.

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

, I suspect internal conflict within a party that's been pretty good at keeping members at falling in line is probably terrifying for them

I don't think this really washes either to be honest. They've changed leaders twice since Cameron first got in and won subsequent elections. Tory infighting will never be reported in the media the same as Labour infighting. Although Corbyn's Labour put the fear of God into the moguls that own almost all of the print media. Perhaps Starmer's more moderate Labour won't scare them as much and the motivation will be less, but I doubt it.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, RondónEFC said:

We're talking about the proper QAnon fringes here. I agree that they're a frighteningly large minority in the US but over here they're rightly seen as mental head-bangers by almost everyone. The people who will still vote Tory anyway will do so because they're middle class, home owning, rural "alright Jack" types who buy into the myth that Labour wants to take all their stuff.

I don't think this really washes either to be honest. They've changed leaders twice since Cameron first got in and won subsequent elections. Tory infighting will never be reported in the media the same as Labour infighting. Although Corbyn's Labour put the fear of God into the moguls that own almost all of the print media. Perhaps Starmer's more moderate Labour won't scare them as much and the motivation will be less, but I doubt it.

QAnon's weirdly popular worldwide. They're probably more open about being "q followers" or whatever the fuck they call themselves in the US, because in the US people are now tying their own personal identity to every political movement and fad that comes their way (not everyone - but a scary amount of people; left and right. Seems like it just takes the right person tweeting one thing for people to adopt those own thoughts as their own).

But even with Brexit we saw people buy into emotional arguments (many of which were total bullshit) instead of actually thinking about what the policy implications were. And that was however many years ago - political rhetoric has only been on a rapid race to the bottom now. The right emotive bullshit will stick if you hit the right emotional buttons. And you don't need too many fringe idiots to get bullshit to stick once it's spread enough and hits the right buttons.

And I'm just not convinced it's as small of a group of people as it is. To get a mob that size ready and willing to do that, there's definitely a larger contingent of people out there that readily believe that stuff but just couldn't be arsed to actually go do something. But those people will vote. And if those people can get emotional enough and hit the right buttons on enough people, they'll be able to influence more people than just their small group of idiots.

If I'm a Tory MP (which I'm going to have to take a shower now that I've typed that out because it's a disgusting thought), I'd be worried that the infighting of the party right now would be something that can't be controlled. Partially because of that rabid base of morons they've spent decades cultivating that'll go do what Johnson wanted them to do when he made that comment about Starmer - what happens if the infighting causes these morons to go spread bullshit about them, and what if that bullshit sticks? Then are they in the position they've had Labour in despite the kid gloves the media treats conservatives with?

I don't buy into the idea we've got a well informed electorate that's taking to the polls and I don't have much faith in the electorate at all - even if Johnson is rightly looking dogshit in the polls. They've got short memories who think a guy can't be PM if he eats a sandwich "like a weirdo", etc...

[RandoEFC+]

I never place too much faith in the electorate but the idea that Johnson is a unifying figure for the party either at this point just isn't true. It's been 4-6 weeks now of Tories publicly criticising him. If there was a clear alternative with broad backing, they'd have moved on him by now. Some well informed journalists suggest they're using "wait until the May local elections/Met findings" to make a final judgement on him as a framework. The problem is that they might want to wait that long to get their ducks in a row but the country wants and needs him gone as soon as possible.

[Waylander]

In politics we are all in subsets

Some are regional, for example, Wales, Merseyside, Home Counties etc. These will influence our outlook to a degree.

Then states of life, student, worker, parent, unemployed, retired etc.

Consider retirees normally on fixed incomes so dislike inflation, they are a big voting block so any party wanting to win needs to be seen as a safe pair of hands. The Johnson govt is now on the backfoot over energy bills.

Then idealogies some identify with socialism or freemarkets or nationalism more than anything else.

Some full for the cult of personality, Thatcher, Blair or bizarrely Johnson.

Some political insiders think we need a good relationship with the US others thought Europe though that is probably on the backfoot now.

My point is understanding politics you need to look at the broad picture, this is just a snapshot of some of the factors that may influence voters.

The Johnson government is in a difficult place and he is not appointing the best people if Dorries is anything to go by.

If Johnson is forced to step down by his party they won't give a general election they will appoint a new leader to fight the next election. 

Johnson is not a typical Tory more of a maverick individual and opportunist perhaps he will with hindsight come to be seen to be like Richard Nixon (Watergate).

 

 

[RandoEFC+]

Cressida Dick has resigned/been sacked by Sadiq Khan.

My favourite tweet of the year so far I think.