UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[OrangeKhrush]

I have gone through the labour party manifesto for 2024 and it seems based though I retain scepticism as the labour and Tories are different cheeks of the same arse.  I find it strange that the supposed conservatives act like Biden's brigands and the labour is acting more like conservatives, secured borders, immigration controls and gang and lawlessness breakdowns on to of switching in England's power again and industry are definitely not liberal policy or not liberal policy of the last 10 years but I am happy to be proven wrong on this.

The Tories will be battling with Reform UK at this rate.

[Stan]

Our own Prime Minister has placed a £1000 bet with the absolute beg that is Piers Morgan that there will be people deported to Rwanda before the next general election. 

He's not even pretending to care or even having a shred of humanity in his body any more.

What has this world come to?! 

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 04/02/2024 at 01:07, OrangeKhrush said:

labour is acting more like conservatives, secured borders, immigration controls and gang and lawlessness breakdowns on to of switching in England's power again and industry are definitely not liberal policy

You might wanna look up liberalism then.

[OrangeKhrush]

14 hours ago, Stan said:

Our own Prime Minister has placed a £1000 bet with the absolute beg that is Piers Morgan that there will be people deported to Rwanda before the next general election. 

He's not even pretending to care or even having a shred of humanity in his body any more.

What has this world come to?! 

Rishi Sunak is a disgrace and the Tories with their globalist agenda are going to get utterly spanked.   reform UK may pull closer.   Diversity was not their strength

[Stan]

15 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

Rishi Sunak is a disgrace and the Tories with their globalist agenda are going to get utterly spanked.   reform UK may pull closer.   Diversity was not their strength

Reform UK's voters are just those that struggle to combine two brain cells together. 

They're more right-wing and deluded than Tories, which is some going. 

They won't pull closer at all. 

[Reluctant Striker]

On 04/02/2024 at 09:07, OrangeKhrush said:

I have gone through the labour party manifesto for 2024 and it seems based though I retain scepticism as the labour and Tories are different cheeks of the same arse.  I find it strange that the supposed conservatives act like Biden's brigands and the labour is acting more like conservatives, secured borders, immigration controls and gang and lawlessness breakdowns on to of switching in England's power again and industry are definitely not liberal policy or not liberal policy of the last 10 years but I am happy to be proven wrong on this.

The Tories will be battling with Reform UK at this rate.

For me, the outright opposition view to the Tories, is usually the Lib Dems. Not just now, but for many years. And when you consider Labour were more recently formed, and to represent the working class, the poorest in society, the under-represented, it does start to make some sense.

Social/council housing? Unskilled jobs? It is where many of the least 'Tory' type people end up. But they are also far removed from semi detached home, office working, Lib Dem's. Usually. And today, I imagine many would genuinely find it tough to choose between Rwanda planes or do nothing, because there is nothing to do. 

It is worth keeping in mind, UKIP, BNP, and various other far right parties, never really became more than protest movements. The furthest Farage & company are getting right now is that this boats thing has become a lead topic. It would not have been without them. But I sense it's unlikely to be a vote winner, even to the working class 'right wing' voter.

[RandoEFC+]

I am disappointed in how many properly progressive policies the Labour party seem to have dropped. You have to keep it in context though. Compare that to the Prime Minister betting £1000 that he can deport some helpless refugees to Rwanda and there isn't a comparison between the two still.

I think Starmer has been quite poor at managing his public image and he could be in danger of fumbling the election if the Tories weren't shooting themselves in the foot, the hand and the face on a daily basis. Labour seem to be scared to take a firm position on anything. You can understand it though because they're on track for a landslide and you wouldn't do anything to rock the boat as long as that's the case.

They can still communicate better though. They've copped some criticism this week over watering down their green commitments from £28bn. All they need to do is explain (accurately) that the main reason they have to keep altering their commitments is because the Tories keep causing economic shocks that massively change the face of what a Labour government would be walking into. For example, Liz Truss' and Kwasi Kwarteng's budget apparently caused about £30bn worth of avoidable damage to the public purse. Of course this has an impact on what Labour can credibly propose to do with the Treasury when they get into power. 

I understand there are other reasons why people are disillusioned with Labour and it's not just these pledges but that's one thing where they could easily have better handled the messaging.

[Bluewolf]

"I will bet you a thousand pounds you will never own a house"

[Stan]

 

 

[OrangeKhrush]

18 hours ago, Reluctant Striker said:

For me, the outright opposition view to the Tories, is usually the Lib Dems. Not just now, but for many years. And when you consider Labour were more recently formed, and to represent the working class, the poorest in society, the under-represented, it does start to make some sense.

Social/council housing? Unskilled jobs? It is where many of the least 'Tory' type people end up. But they are also far removed from semi detached home, office working, Lib Dem's. Usually. And today, I imagine many would genuinely find it tough to choose between Rwanda planes or do nothing, because there is nothing to do. 

It is worth keeping in mind, UKIP, BNP, and various other far right parties, never really became more than protest movements. The furthest Farage & company are getting right now is that this boats thing has become a lead topic. It would not have been without them. But I sense it's unlikely to be a vote winner, even to the working class 'right wing' voter.

True, most people vote on their best interests and not the name of the party.  I dont think labour are a silver bullet to the UKs problems but it is a better move opposed to the tories being WEF, WHO and the a War fund party for their handlers, the open borders, welfare to illegals and pushed DEI are hardly right wing policy and that is why the tories are are just charletans.

Labour will however fall a foul of many left wing politica notably climate nutters as labour want to restart the UKs indistrial sector, they want to restrict immigration and arm crime units to fight rampant crime these wont sit well with progressives at all.

The tories are basically Joe Bidens democrats, those policies are losing battles, cultural tear down, forced diversity, punishment for non fielty, forcced complience with government overreach during the plandemic are all globalist autocracy politics which are getting push backs.

The tories and dems are running out of time to force a world war to stay in power, the EU is changing rapidly with the rise of civic nationalism, people are tired of being made to feel ashamed of something and want their countries back.

 

[RandoEFC+]

In the last 48 hours, Rishi Sunak has placed a £1000 bet with Piers Morgan that he can deport a bunch of helpless refugees on a plane, and then made a jibe about trans issues at PMQs today while Brianna Ghey's mother (the trans girl who was murdered last year whose killers' names have just been publicised this week) watched on from the gallery.

Is it still "below the bar of political discourse" to use the phrase Tory Scum? Because if that stuff doesn't make you scum then what does?

He's disgusting. I can't wait to see them have their arses handed to them at the next election and then bury themselves in years of opposition as their "up and comers" like Kemi Badenoch continue to convince themselves that these culture war issues about transgender people, immigrants, "woke" brigade etc. are actually vote winners.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Brexit Britain has 'significantly underperformed' other advanced economies, Goldman Sachs says - shrinking it by 5% https://www.marketwatch.com/story/higher-inflation-much-weaker-growth-brexit-has-hit-the-u-k-economy-hard-says-goldman-sachs-e6d1211e  .....Whoever could have possibly thought separating yourself from your main market without any planning whatsoever would weaken the economy? Why didn't the experts warn us?!

Too bad the electorate is just painfully fucking stupid, because the political ruling class have absolutely let Britain down and are 100% directly responsible for the steady decline of British living standards & quality of life. People that took a 51-49 referendum vote and acted like that was an unfettered mandate for something they couldn't even define other than "Brexit means Brexit" absolutely deserve all the flak in the world for the consequences of their actions. But so many of them will likely be safe in their seats and feel no sting from the electorate they've let down. Pretty sad tbh.

[RandoEFC+]

Two more comfortable by-election wins for Labour in safe Tory seats last night. 

[Spike]

Corbyn

[OrangeKhrush]

They make decisions out of fear, that is the failing of democracy in the UK.   Labour are trying exceptionally hard to drop the ball.

When is the session where they decide to send people to die for Ukraine, that will be a blockbuster.

When Churchill said Brittain would not surrender only to watch it surrendered to a mob some 80 years later.

[Stan]

The vehemently racist Lee Anderson has had the whip suspended after comments made towards how London is and his view on Sadiq Khan.

What is it with Tories stoking division and hatred all the fucking time?

[Spike]

12 minutes ago, Stan said:

The vehemently racist Lee Anderson has had the whip suspended after comments made towards how London is and his view on Sadiq Khan.

What is it with Tories stoking division and hatred all the fucking time?

I have an answer for you but I know deep down you know it too.

[OrangeKhrush]

I think labour have done a wonderful job of carrying out ritualistic seppaku, they are trying so hard to lose a constituency to that anarcho communist Galloway, which would be hilarious if it wasn't tragic.

[Rucksackfranzose]

1 hour ago, OrangeKhrush said:

I think labour have done a wonderful job of carrying out ritualistic seppaku, they are trying so hard to lose a constituency to that anarcho communist Galloway, which would be hilarious if it wasn't tragic.

Honestly, you should read some political theory. Calling someone making propaganda for of The Islamic Republic of Iran an anarcho communist shows you don't really know what that term means.

[OrangeKhrush]

2 hours ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Honestly, you should read some political theory. Calling someone making propaganda for of The Islamic Republic of Iran an anarcho communist shows you don't really know what that term means.

You are right,  he is also a theocrastic fascism supporter and a rabid anti semite on top of being a communist.   However you want to slice it,  his voter base is very specific and vociferous extremists. 

[Spike]

For me, it’s fascisto-libertarian-anarcho-marxist-Reagonomics.

[Rucksackfranzose]

37 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

You are right,  he is also a theocrastic fascism supporter and a rabid anti semite on top of being a communist.   However you want to slice it,  his voter base is very specific and vociferous extremists. 

You're aware both bolded parts exclude each other? Fascism always is ultra-nationalist and contradicts the internationalism that is inherently communist.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

You're aware both bolded parts exclude each other? Fascism always is ultra-nationalist and contradicts the internationalism that is inherently communist.

You'd think someone that acts like they are so interested in this sort of stuff would at least take the time to learn basic political theory - rather than resort to nonsense word salad. It's one thing to point out that certain leftwing and rightwing people have made and done some pretty antisemetic things, or even point out the hypocrisy in left-leaning people lending vocal support to Khamenei or preaching the fucking ideals of Rullah fucking Khomeini... it's completely another thing to just tar them as communist theocratic fascists without any regard for what those terms mean.

Granted, there's a certain terror group out there that's tried to be a Marxist-Islamacist organisation despite that making fundamentally no sense at all  - and weirdly enough they pal around with some of America's most extremist right-wing politicians (Pompeo, Pence, Lindsay Graham, etc.) - but they're more of a cult nowadays than actually having any understanding of basic political theory. And they're opposed to the regime Galloway's alleged to be twerking for, so he can't even claim he's referencing them in an attempt to save face.

But I'm sure that won't stop him from doubling down and complaining about the fascism of communism. For far too many people, they've gone past caring about whether or not words have meaning.

[OrangeKhrush]

21 hours ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

You're aware both bolded parts exclude each other? Fascism always is ultra-nationalist and contradicts the internationalism that is inherently communist.

Yes which is why he is a fraud, he loves his fascist Arab theocrats and he loves his communist dictators.  That being said Russians are very ultra nationalists.  They are nationalist socialists which is what Hitler was, is Russia any less fascist than that Adolf bloke.   

Speaking of fascism I see the German opposition want to ban the AFD, reasons populism, the people are moving that way and democracy means denying the will of the people.   

 

Back to Sadiq Khan, he hasn't got British interested in heart and his questionable links through business and family ties to some rather dubious people that are involved in banned movements all with Islamic jihad as core underlying ideology, calling him out is not islamophia it is just inconvenient truth.  These question mirror the majority of the UK that want conditions attached to immigration such as that Islamophobic requirement that they be aptly screened/vetted before being allowed in to live off the land with the taxpayer covering the tab.

[Rucksackfranzose]

5 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

Yes which is why he is a fraud, he loves his fascist Arab theocrats and he loves his communist dictators.  That being said Russians are very ultra nationalists.  They are nationalist socialists which is what Hitler was, is Russia any less fascist than that Adolf bloke. 

Speaking of fascism I see the German opp osition want to ban the AFD, reasons populism, the people are moving that way and democracy means denying the will of the people.   

 

Back to Sadiq Khan, he hasn't got British interested in heart and his questionable links through business and family ties to some rather dubious people that are involved in banned movements all with Islamic jihad as core underlying ideology, calling him out is not islamophia it is just inconvenient truth.  These question mirror the majority of the UK that want conditions attached to immigration such as that Islamophobic requirement that they be aptly screened/vetted before being allowed in to live off the land with the taxpayer covering the tab.

You know communist dictators is a contradictio in adiecto? Since communism is a state of egalitarian rule without hierarchy, which means there can be either socialist dictators or dictators of communist ideology, but definetively no communist dictators. That's anopther reason, why being fascist and communist exclude each other. Which also makes your term anarcho-communist redundant since communism is a state of anarchy. But hey told you to read some political theory. Also Calling Russia communist, shows you don't only don't know what communism is , you also don't have the slightest idea of socialism, otherwise you'd know Russia is indeed capitalist and has less socialist elements to its economy and society than any Western European country.  

As for the part about Germany: Again you talk about things you don't really comprehend. The only instance that is allowed to ban any party in Germany is the Bundesverfassungsgericht (translates to Federal Constitution Court) so the opposition isn't even capable juridically to ban the AFD, even if they wanted, which most of them don't. Second there's only 1 reason, why the BVG is juridically allowed to ban a party, and that is if the party is proven to be willing to forceably owerthrow the liberal democratic basic order of Germany.  Nothing to do with populism. And no that's no opinion of mine, it's possible to fact check that by reading  Article 12 Paragraph 2 2nd sentence of Grundgesetz (which is the German constitution). Don't know which sources you use for your information about Germany, still would recommand to change them, since any single statement you made about that country has been proven to be factually wrong, so far.

EDIT: Am undecided, whether I should be bemused, amused, or straight out offended you seem to think a German living in Germany for over 50 years like me would not know, the first 20 articles of the German constitution, which are called their basic rights.

Edited February 28 by Rucksackfranzose