UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Corbyn will now shorly?

I can't imagine a situation where he stays on as leader after this, assuming results match the exit polls as @Batard said.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, RandoEFC said:

The psychology is fascinating in a way because those that left Labour for Brexit Party dont mind the Tories taking the seat as long as they didn't personally vote for them even though they caused it by voting for BP.

Fascinating is one word for it, I suppose.

[RandoEFC+]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Fascinating is one word for it, I suppose.

I have to try and look at this rationally and or academically. If I look at it through an emotional lens I'll be depressed for the next 5 years.

[RandoEFC+]

The one thing I cant help but be more depressed about is the fact that people wont vote Green because they'll never win but Brexit is a big enough issue to make a protest vote. Climate change apparently not.

[6666]

6 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Corbyn was a risk and it hasn't paid off. It is confusing that he was such an asset electorally speaking in 2017 but a big problem now.

Media went into overdrive against him since then. Convinced people that a man that has campaigned for people's rights for a long time and a man that suggests we don't make rash decisions regarding war is actually a racist that hates Britain.

[6666]

Just realised the Tories will be announced officially as the winners on Friday the 13th. How fitting.

[Stan]

9 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I have to try and look at this rationally and or academically. If I look at it through an emotional lens I'll be depressed for the next 5 years.

Selfishness? Brexit happens now. Climate change won't be truly felt for a few more decades by which time some of us may not be here to experience the true effect of it all. 

[Pyfish+]

Calling it a night soon but the Exit Poll is on trend with the results which have come in so far. Think we are in for a few more surprises yet though!

[Batard]

Another turgid 5 years of Conservative erosion of the welfare state, enforced poverty upon those who already can't afford it and tax breaks to those who can. There's something to be said about a system of government where your biggest backers can smear your opponents so as to protect their own arse against a sizeable tax bill. There's an almost an absurdity to the sway Rupert Murdoch holds. It can surely only result in electoral reform, financial backers should not have this leverage over the public. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Stan said:

Selfishness? Brexit happens now. Climate change won't be truly felt for a few more decades by which time some of us may not be here to experience the true effect of it all. 

Have I missed something what has climate change got to do with anything?

[RandoEFC+]

5 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Media went into overdrive against him since then. Convinced people that a man that has campaigned for people's rights for a long time and a man that suggests we don't make rash decisions regarding war is actually a racist that hates Britain.

I think this is true. Most of people's issues with Corbyn seem to about things he did in the 80s, not since 2017, it's a smear campaign without a doubt.

I've just seen a graphic on Twitter about what people's main worries about Corbyn were. Labour Remain voters had very little issue with Corbyn. Labour Leave voters cited Corbyn as a major issue, so Brexit is still a dividing line if you go off that. It's either that they didn't accept his woolly position on Brexit (which I personally believe was reasonable) or that they have used that as an excuse to not say they're putting Brexit over their Labour loyalty.

I'd say it's mostly Brexit but a bit Corbyn that has fucked Labour. He's been the leader in the last two elections and he ultimately carries the responsibility. Labour need to retreat to the centre and get ready to pick up the voters if and when they don't enjoy the hardline Tory Brexit that's likely to be round the corner, or when they find out how much they've been lied to.

[Stan]

3 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Have I missed something what has climate change got to do with anything?

See one of @RandoEFC's posts earlier about Green Party. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

when they don't enjoy the hardline Tory Brexit that's likely to be round the corner, or when they find out how much they've been lied to.

We sure they'll come around to realise it's the party that's been in control that's let that happen?

[Spike]

I empathise

[RandoEFC+]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

We sure they'll come around to realise it's the party that's been in control that's let that happen?

Eventually yes. It's happened before. If you're convinced like me that Brexit and this government is going to be as bad as you and I expect for so many people, then they'll dig themselves into a deep hole.

People will eventually get angry enough that they'll finally believe everything they've been denying from Vote Leave breaking the law to Get Brexit Done being nothing more than a catchy slogan.

Or maybe it'll actually be fine.

[Honey Honey]

Brexit Party actually seems to be keeping Labour just about in control of many seats on the red side of the wall. Turnout is supposedly sky high in London where Conservatives may well be close to wiped out.

Chances of better than exit poll for conservatives are looking slimmer.

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

The one thing I cant help but be more depressed about is the fact that people wont vote Green because they'll never win but Brexit is a big enough issue to make a protest vote. Climate change apparently not.

It's the problem with being nice and caring about the world mate. Most people I know say I'm nice. But being nice and caring about the world can be frustrating because unfortutely not everyone is the same. 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Eventually yes. It's happened before. If you're convinced like me that Brexit and this government is going to be as bad as you and I expect for so many people, then they'll dig themselves into a deep hole.

People will eventually get angry enough that they'll finally believe everything they've been denying from Vote Leave breaking the law to Get Brexit Done being nothing more than a catchy slogan.

Or maybe it'll actually be fine.

Some people will stick by brexit whatever. However a lot of people are more flexible. If it is bad for the country a lot of people will blame the conservatives and labour will get back in. That's generally what happens with elections people vote for one party when they are fed up of the other and they call the previous party that they voted for liars. If brexit does seriously damage the country people will hate Johnson and farage ect in the future.

[RandoEFC+]

Just now, Gunnersauraus said:

It's the problem with being nice and caring about the world mate. Most people I know say I'm nice. But being nice and caring about the world can be frustrating because unfortutely not everyone is the same. 

Most people are the same, but who do you want them to believe in this day and age? People who know about things like economics and trade deals and policy were very clear that Brexit was bad, some politicians shouted louder than them and got more column inches and screen time, realised how much disinformation they can get away with and ran with it. That stat about 88% of Tory Facebook ads being untruthful compared to 0% of Labour's goes to show that one team is playing a different game here. Actual senior Conservatives said last week that a Tory aide was assaulted after Labour paid for 100 protesters to go and heckle Hancock outside a hospital and there is no electoral impact on them when it's proven to be an outrageous lie.

[6666]

The cities that are most relied upon by the rest of the UK will most likely be red. I don't really know how to process that information.

[The Artful Dodger]

4 minutes ago, 6666 said:

The cities that are most relied upon by the rest of the UK will most likely be red. I don't really know how to process that information.

Scousers, mancs and cockneys generally all slag each other off but politically  are the same. 

Extremely sad night. Although predictable. My grandfather would be spinning in his grave to see pontefract on the verge of going tory. You will regret this sooner or later. 

It's over. We've lost. Just look after yourself lads.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Most people are the same, but who do you want them to believe in this day and age? People who know about things like economics and trade deals and policy were very clear that Brexit was bad, some politicians shouted louder than them and got more column inches and screen time, realised how much disinformation they can get away with and ran with it. That stat about 88% of Tory Facebook ads being untruthful compared to 0% of Labour's goes to show that one team is playing a different game here. Actual senior Conservatives said last week that a Tory aide was assaulted after Labour paid for 100 protesters to go and heckle Hancock outside a hospital and there is no electoral impact on them when it's proven to be an outrageous lie.

What I meant though mate is there are a lot of people who don't care about the world and other people as much as you do. Not a majority most do care but unfortunately there is a sizable amount that don't. 

I looked on that site about the 88% of conservative lies. I can't remember exactly what it said but it said something about the more common adverts contained 88% of lies and labour none but labour had lied on the less common ones. Or somebody representing labour had or something

[Honey Honey]

4 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

What I meant though mate is there are a lot of people who don't care about the world and other people as much as you do. Not a majority most do care but unfortunately there is a sizable amount that don't. 

I looked on that site about the 88% of conservative lies. I can't remember exactly what it said but it said something about the more common adverts contained 88% of lies and labour none but labour had lied on the less common ones. Or somebody representing labour had or something

 

If you like that sort of stuff here's another organisation you might be interested in 

[Guest]

@RandoEFC @Dr. Gonzo going back to a point I made earlier that I think may have got misunderstood. I know we aren't going to get a second referendum now. But I don't think reasonably we can argue it would be fair to now anyway. People had a chance to vote labour to get another vote and they didn't. So for me that shows people don't want to have one they just wanna get it done.

 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Harvsky said:

 

If you like that sort of stuff here's another organisation you might be interested in 

For me that information says vote Green party they are honest. Although I would imagine that some parties put out more leaflets and articles etc so they're amount of lies will always be higher.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Guest