Neymar Jr. Discussion

[Spike]

1 minute ago, SirBalon said:

I've always thought this way mate although in life you have to give slack to all parties because sometimes the unethical can be borderline and interpreted in different ways by many which means we have to think various times before forming a whole opinion.  But in cases like this one, it's plain to see and it's almost verging on the ridiculous!

I blame the board on a large scale to be honest because like I said some posts back, I would tell PSG that Barça WILL infact negotiate and that there's no need to go the whole obscene hog of the ridiculous amounts of money that the French club would have to pay.  Because like I said in my very first post on this (or was it the second one, I don't know), it's not just the €250m that PSG have to pay, but because it's activating a buy-out clause, then the tax has to be paid on top of that leading the fee to almost €500 with everything surrounding it.

I thought the tax was paid only when the purchasing club is Spanish?

[SirBalon]

Just now, Spike said:

I thought the tax was paid only when the purchasing club is Spanish?

First of all, I had to edit that several times because of the bloody predictive spelling! 

On the tax issue...  When you activate a buy-out clause, you as the buyer then have to pay the whole amount of that buy-out clause to the company your buying the acquisition from.  Then you as the buyer have to go to the tax office yourself and deposit the almost 50% of the fee on top.  But because you're acquiring a commodity abroad, you are then liable to VAT in the country of origin which in this case is France and there's on this amount stands at 60%.  Add to that, that the contract you offer the employee is also subjective to a one off payment of tax, so whatever he will paid in his first annual salary would be paid in whole to the French fiscal department.  That's why I quoted a US financial journalist that works for the New York Times (the FT section) who said that the whole deal PSG would have to fork out right from the off would be €526m.

[IgnisExcubitor]

13 hours ago, SirBalon said:

The man to replace Neymar would be Dybala. Although that doesn't affect Barcelona's interest in Coutinho.

He is not a replacement of Neymar. Barca want him regardless, like you add. Coutinho would be used as a CM at Barca. And he will prosper in that side. Unfortunate for us.

But this deal of Neymar might gave a huge domino effect in the market.

[Machado]

"The Brazilian star decided to leave Barcelona and join PSG. It is a matter of finalizing details in order to make the biggest transfer in football's history happen."

[Mel81x+]

I can't see why he'd jump to PSG personally but if thats what he want then its what he wants. If this goes through Barcelona's summer shopping is going to be very interesting indeed. With all the money they'll get from this they can practically have anyone they want.

[SirBalon]

There is some real great news coming out today from some of Barcelona based journalists in that PSG could activate Neymar Jr's buy-out clause any moment soon.  That would pave the way for FC Barcelona to do the deals they need to do to get the players they want and really put balance to the side.  The most important thing is that this gets done as quickly as possible like I said in a previous post, not longer than a week.  There are six weeks remaining of the summer transfer window and that's ample time to get so many things done.

Barcelona already had money to spend (part of it spent on Nélson Semedo from Benfica) where €100 had been put aside to try and sign Marco Verratti.  But if we add €250m to what was already there, then the club can really go for what they want.

Paulo Dybala for example had a clause put in his contract renewal a few months back that if Barcelona came in for him, he would have his path opened up by Juventus.  Max Allegri only this morning was asked about this and he said that Juventus didn't fear losing Dybala.  Dybala would actually be a more balanced option than Neymar for Barça...  There's no doubt that losing Neymar is a big hit for Barcelona after everything that was invested in him and all the tax troubles on the transfer that was executed from Santos in Brazil.  Neymar also brings in a hell of a lot of money because he along with Messi are the biggest marketing icons in the continent of America.  But this is football, and for the football fan the most important factor is having a balanced team that competes without the coach having to perform sacrifices in other areas.  Dybala is more versatile and offers other avenues without renouncing on the fact he has goals in his boots.

[Carnivore Chris]

I personally don't believe that Neymar would necessarily  have a greater chance of winning the Balon d'or at PSG, than he does at Barcelona, whether he's playing with Messi or he isn't. Since Messi has been at Barcelona, many of his team mates have joined him on the podium in the race for the Balon d'or and none of these players(who have left or played for other clubs previously) have been on the podium at other clubs. Eto'o, Suarez and Neymar himself(as well as Xavi and Iniesta of course), just to name a few. Neymar's chances of winning the award are far greater while playing for Barcelona(or Real Madrid) than for any other club in fact. His reputation has massively increased since his move to Spain and most Europeans called him overrated when he was at Santos, whereas the same people rate him highly nowadays. Not to mention the best football he has played at the club is when combining with Messi, so playing with the Argentine certainly doesn't hinder him in the slightest either.

He's a top player, one of the best right now for me, although Messi as a whole is a different level and it doesn't matter which club Neymar is at, as this wouldn't change. Going to France is an unambitious, easy route as far as I'm concerned.

At Liverpool(a massive club who dwarf PSG and play in a much better league), Suarez was nowhere near the Balon d'or podium, despite being exceptional in his last season for them and playing in a league that is watched by more people worldwide than any other. Yet it only took 12 months to be in contention once joining Barça. Playing around a player of Messi's ability and a club of Barcelona's reputation increases your chances and doesn't decrease them as far as I'm concerned. The man(Messi) has shown in recent seasons that he is more than happy to sacrifice himself  in order to drop deep into midfield for the better of the team and this enables players of Neymar's quality to shine and gain a lot of plaudits.Within about 2 years there is a high possibility that Neymar would win the award while at the club, barring he continued to show what he's all about.

This transfer is mainly about money and his dad, who makes all his choices for him it appears and is one of the most shady characters involved in football. It has nothing to do with a new challenge, as playing in France is not a challenge. You could understand a move to England, for example, as it's a competitive and well marketed league where he would truly need to work hard to prove himself, just like in Spain(although more so since he wouldn't be playing around players like Messi, Iniesta, Suarez & Busquets). Going to France is not proving yourself. The Brazilian league itself is better than that pile of utter nonsensical shite. I don't begrudge him for wanting a move as not all players are committed to one club, but the choice of club, the timing and reasons for leaving are all questionable.

 

 

On 21/07/2017 at 11:34 AM, IgnisExcubitor said:

He is not a replacement of Neymar. Barca want him regardless, like you add. Coutinho would be used as a CM at Barca. And he will prosper in that side. Unfortunate for us.

But this deal of Neymar might gave a huge domino effect in the market.

The market is already utterly fucked unfortunately mate when you have clubs buying players like Lukaku for 80 million. He's not even world class, yet is going for near world record amounts.

It would be a loss, although at the same time, if he's not committed, then fuck him. Let him go. His father no longer being involved with the club would be a one positive to look at also. Messi is going nowhere either and Suarez is still there. It was always going to be hard to keep all 3 and some people(I remember Balon claiming this several months ago) would even say that having all 3 was becoming a bit of an overkill.

Dybala would be an interesting option, as would Coutinho. I rate both players and they would both be well suited to the way the team play.

[SirBalon]

20 minutes ago, The Rebel CRS said:

I personally don't believe that Neymar would necessarily  have a greater chance of winning the Balon d'or at PSG, than he does at Barcelona, whether he's playing with Messi or he isn't. Since Messi has been
at Barcelona, many of his team mates have joined him on the podium in the race for the Balon d'or and none of these players(who have left or played for other clubs previously) have been on the podium at other clubs. Eto'o, Suarez and Neymar himelf(as well as Xavi and Iniesta of course), just to name a few. Neymar's chances of winning the award are far greater while playing for Barcelona(or Real Madrid) than for any other club in fact. His reputation has massively increased since his move to Spain and most Europeans called him overrated when he was at Santos, whereas the same people rate him highly nowadays. Not to mention the best football he has played at the club is when combining with Messi, so playing with the Argentine certainly doesn't hinder him in the slightest either.

He's a top player, one of the best right now for me, although Messi as a whole is a different level and it doesn't matter which club Neymar is at, as this wouldn't change. Going to France is an unambitious, easy route as far as I'm concerned.

At Liverpool(a massive club who dwarf PSG and play in a much better league), Suarez was nowhere near the Balon d'or podium, despite being exceptional in his last season for them and playing in a league that is watched by more people worldwide than any other. Yet it only took 12 months to be in contention once joining Barça. Playing around a player of Messi's ability and a club of Barcelona's reputation increases your chances and doesn't decrease them as far as I'm concerned. The man(Messi) has shown in recent seasons that he is more than happy to sacrifice himself  in order to drop deep into midfield for the better of the team and this enables players of Neymar's quality to shine and gain a lot of plaudits.Within about 2 years there is a high possibility that Neymar would win the award while at the club, barring he continued to show what he's all about.

This transfer is mainly about money and his dad, who makes all his choices for him it appears and is one of the most shady characters involved in football. It has nothing to do with a new challenge, as playing in France is not a challenge. You could understand a move to England, for example, as it's a competitive and well marketed league where he would truly need to work hard to prove himself, just like in Spain(although more so since he wouldn't be playing around players like Messi, Iniesta, Suarez & Busquets). Going to France is not proving yourself. The Brazilian league itself is better than that pile of utter nonsensical shite. I don't begrudge him for wanting a move as not all players are committed to one club, but the choice of club, the timing and reasons for leaving are all questionable.

 

 

The market is already utterly fucked unfortunately mate when you have clubs buying players like Lukaku for 80 million. He's not even world class, yet is going for near world record amounts.

It would be a loss, although at the same time, if he's not committed, then fuck him. Let him go. His father no longer being involved with the club would be a one positive to look at also. Messi is going nowhere either and Suarez is still there. It was always going to be hard to keep all 3 and some people(I remember Balon claiming this several months ago) would even say that having all 3 was becoming a bit of an overkill.

Dybala would be an interesting option, as would Coutinho. I rate both players and they would both be well suited to the way the team play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All that you're saying about Ligue1 (the French league) is what I was trying to explain to Ricardinho.  I understand and appreciate he has sympathies for French football and all that, also I will add that there are some very historical and respectable clubs in France.  But Ligue1 has been dead for years and only last season did we see a mini revival with some more competitive performances from other fringe clubs.  All the same it means nothing and that's why their European Golden Boot point coefficiency is where it is, not that this is by any means the reason behind why that league is almost verging on the substandard.

But you're arguments as to why Neymar hasn't got it easier to win the Ballon d'Or (if that's his goal apart from the money) in France is nonsense.  His marketing potential for that award would basically have all its weight placed on what happens in the Champions League.  Even then it wouldn't be guaranteed because Messi won a Ballon d'Or where he didn't win the Champions League some years back and was based totally on what he did in Spain.

I won't even go into my own personal sentiments to what PSG actually are because I've banged on about that too many times and it's even become tiresome for myself.

 

[Carnivore Chris]

3 hours ago, SirBalon said:

All that you're saying about Ligue1 (the French league) is what I was trying to explain to Ricardinho.  I understand and appreciate he has sympathies for French football and all that, also I will add that there are some very historical and respectable clubs in France.  But Ligue1 has been dead for years and only last season did we see a mini revival with some more competitive performances from other fringe clubs.  All the same it means nothing and that's why their European Golden Boot point coefficiency is where it is, not that this is by any means the reason behind why that league is almost verging on the substandard.

But you're arguments as to why Neymar hasn't got it easier to win the Ballon d'Or (if that's his goal apart from the money) in France is nonsense.  His marketing potential for that award would basically have all its weight placed on what happens in the Champions League.  Even then it wouldn't be guaranteed because Messi won a Ballon d'Or where he didn't win the Champions League some years back and was based totally on what he did in Spain.

I won't even go into my own personal sentiments to what PSG actually are because I've banged on about that too many times and it's even become tiresome for myself.

 

I mean he would have it easier in terms of not having to work as hard in France as Spain in order to shine in a league. His chances of winning the Ballon d'or would decrease due to the fact he's not playing at as high a level domestically every week. Playing for Barcelona is certainly going to work more in your favour(whether playing with Messi or not) than playing for PSG.

It's all about money and his father's decisions more than anything for me either way.

 

 

[RandoEFC+]

[BBC] How can PSG afford to pay £196m for Neymar?

[SirBalon]

The contracts for Neymar to go to PSG are done with all that's remaining is his signature.

Last night the news was that Neymar had changed his mind aftwr speaking with the coach Ernesto Valverde and a few of the heavy weights in the team.

Then his father met with part of the board that's in New York with the team on the initial part of the pre season tour. According to sources at the club Neymar senior asked for a new contract at be revised for him at Barça (Neymar signed a new contract 4 months ago) with another substantial raise in his wages and a extortionate fee for his father (again) to agree the deal. The club told him to honour the contract he has...  If he doesn't want to, then they won't negotiate with them or with PSG. They told Neymar senior that the buy-out clause is there to be paid and that they can then take a trip to pay the rest at the tax office. 

News is expected in the next few hours with an announcement  that Neymar has departed for PSG.

From there on it's all about where Barça will spend all that money. 

[SirBalon]

Gerard Piqué "The Voice" has spoken: 

 

[El Profesor]

Now, one begins to wonder what kind of reception Neymar will get from fans in Barcelona. I think most Barça fans are sick and tired of his act, and rightfully so. You can´t go through all this rubbish every summer. But then again, Barcelona made its bed here. The Neymars screwed Santos and Sonda in the original transfer for Barcelona. They know who they´re dealing with.

Neymar Jr is arrogant, spoiled, disrespectful and immature, Neymar Pai is dishonest and greedy. That´s quite an explosive combination to have in your club.

 

[SirBalon]

10 minutes ago, El_Loco said:

Now, one begins to wonder what kind of reception Neymar will get from fans in Barcelona.

This is why I wanted him out now!

Last summer he done a similar thing and this one he's pulled off is for me over the top.  You can't go around life doing these things!

He's well within his rights to decide his future as that belongs to him, but another is to keep on pulling these stunts and taking it this far.  He practically paralysed the club and negotiations they were doing with possible signings.  I have no idea if all these shenanigans have hurt any deals that were being negotiated but another thing that has also got to be taken into account is that other clubs with players that may have replaced Neymar were having to answer questions to their national sports press with fans of those clubs becoming worried like it's been the case with Juventus.  Allegri spent 25 minutes in a press conference that should've been about the pre season both Barça and Juve had yesterday in New York having instead to answer questions on Dybala possibly leaving for Barcelona.

Obviously Neymar would say that what clubs start doing isn't his business, but it is related to his antics.  He reminds me of Dani Alves' attitude, only a lot more irresponsible.  25 is young, but at 25 you're also a man!

[SirBalon]

Another thing also is what must PSG be thinking?

Not that I give a damn about them as they're one of the clubs I dislike the most, if not the most.  But that's not right!  PSG actually spent the past 3 days organising contracts and organising how they were going to pay the extortionate amount of money it was going to cost them.  Imagine all the time, resources and money spent with lawyers and all that...  They should charge the Neymars for all of that!

[SirBalon]

According to some sources that have spoken to people connected to the Neymar family, the situation isn't over yet although it looks like Neymar Jr will indeed be staying at Barça.

They're rather surprised that Gerard Piqué decided to act as the press or the club's heirachy by announcing something that isn't officially done yet.  What is known is that Neymar decided a few days ago that he wanted to stay and it's his father that has kept this all alive.

[Cicero]

Pique forcing players to come to Barca, now forcing players to stay at Barca. 

 

Things never change. 

[nfb_10]

I find it disgusting that legends like Messi, Pique, Iniesta etc. have to 'convince' Neymar to stay at Barcelona. Who does he think he is? If he and his father plan on playing this game every summer then I wish he had left and be done with it. 

He needs to come out himself and apologise for the way this whole drama fest was handled and he needs to publicly reaffirm his commitment to the club and his intention to stay, that's the only way I can even begin to try my best to move past this. And while he's at it I think he should relieve Papa Neymar from his agent duties and get another agent, so that we don't have to endure this bull again. 

[SirBalon]

1 hour ago, Messiesta said:

I find it disgusting that legends like Messi, Pique, Iniesta etc. have to 'convince' Neymar to stay at Barcelona. Who does he think he is? If he and his father plan on playing this game every summer then I wish he had left and be done with it. 

He needs to come out himself and apologise for the way this whole drama fest was handled and he needs to publicly reaffirm his commitment to the club and his intention to stay, that's the only way I can even begin to try my best to move past this. And while he's at it I think he should relieve Papa Neymar from his agent duties and get another agent, so that we don't have to endure this bull again. 

I agree with you mate.  But for me any public apology (which I don't think will come) or "reaffirmation" of commitment would mean as much to me as Barcelona means to him.

Plenty of foreign players (players no belonging originally to either a club or the nation they've made their name in) have shown more than just commitment and faith to the club which invested so much in them.  Players like Cruyff (Dutch), Kubala (Hungarian), Di Stéfano (Argentinian), Messi (Argentinian), Roberto Carlos (Brazilian), Bergkamp (Dutch) etc... etc... Became not only icons of their clubs, but even when they moved on (in Messi's case it's still ongoing as it's the present) they were always remembered.  Di Stéfano remained forever at Real Madrid and died as Real Madrid honorary president.  Johan Cruyff everyone knows what he means to FC Barcelona but even with his difficult character he managed to stay eternally associated to three entities, Ajax, Barça and the Dutch national side without any party ever feeling a lack of love and appreciation from the man...  And that's that he was very outspoken and at times very critical.  But you always knew that his criticism was born from love for what he was making a damning statement on.

People like Neymar are nomads!  When they point at "God" on any given moment, it's associated around themselves (selfishness) and a belief that any God is looking down upon them personally.  That's why I've always despised when players name God in any comment when being interviewed where they say they've been blessed...  For anyone that actually knows anything whatsoever about doctrine will understand that that's the worse kind of blasphemy that can be committed.

Not all Brazilians have been this way and in the modern era I can think of three that were 100% honourable with Roberto Carlos, Kaká and Cafú.  Yes they were paid a lot of money, but they gave back not in terms of performances because the reason they were at the clubs they were was because that part was expected from them due to being elite players.  But because they gave back to the fans without having to say anything or kiss badges.

Too many others have come to Europe, given moments of magic and partied away without feeling the need to give as much on the mundane side of things like their colleagues did at their respective clubs.  People like Romario for example would tell his coaches he didn't want to train because he was tired from partying the previous night and that if he didn't party, then he wouldn't play well as that made him happy.  The Brazilian holy trinity for a football on the main is (I repeat) Selecção, Deus e Dinheiro.  You couldn't invent another triad of human associations that have nothing whatsoever to do with the one in the middle.

Like I said...  I've said it and I repeat it...  I don't want him there anymore.  Anyone that does after this is desperate and to be honest I don't understand that desperation where a club like FC Barcelona is in question.  To be honest I personally would want Maradona out of my club if he did the same and my club happened to be a third division side, just so you comprehend how I think.  Who the hell does Neymar think he actually is?  On the scope of what Barça means in football, the sport he plays in, he's nothing!  He actually should play for PSG because as Uli Hoeneß (Bayern president) said today...  "Everything PSG does is a sign of an inferior club and a desperate club".  Neymar feels inferior to Messi and he is desperate to be the protagonist and he feels that's hard right now...  He needs an easier path.

[nfb_10]

I don't think this is over yet though. According to ESPN FC, a source close to Neymar revealed that the forward had no idea why Gerard Pique posted an image of the two teammates along with the caption "He stays", and Neymar has also not "liked" or commented on the photo, which is odd as he would usually do that when his teammates post anything, let alone a picture with him in it. 

And so the game continues...

[SirBalon]

23 minutes ago, Messiesta said:

I don't think this is over yet though. According to ESPN FC, a source close to Neymar revealed that the forward had no idea why Gerard Pique posted an image of the two teammates along with the caption "He stays", and Neymar has also not "liked" or commented on the photo, which is odd as he would usually do that when his teammates post anything, let alone a picture with him in it. 

And so the game continues...

Yeah I said this morning on the Neymar thread that it wasn't over. I just want him gone to be honest. 

[nfb_10]

Barcelona and PSG have called unexpected press conferences within 30 minutes of each other this evening. PSG have not done any press conferences since they've been on their US tour...Gerard Pique may be the one speaking at Barça's press conference

[SirBalon]

1 minute ago, Messiesta said:

Barcelona and PSG have called unexpected press conferences within 30 minutes of each other this evening. PSG have not done any press conferences since they've been on their US tour...Gerard Pique may be the one speaking at Barça's press conference

I reckon Neymar is gone!  I'm hoping that's the case and we'll have to wait and see.

Although Barça's press conference in principle has nothing to do with the PSG one whatever that's about.  The Barcelona press conference was an already scheduled one from 2 weeks ago for the game against Man Utd.  Although it could turn into whatever is to come...  Who knows!

[El Profesor]

2 hours ago, SirBalon said:

I reckon Neymar is gone!  I'm hoping that's the case and we'll have to wait and see.

Although Barça's press conference in principle has nothing to do with the PSG one whatever that's about.  The Barcelona press conference was an already scheduled one from 2 weeks ago for the game against Man Utd.  Although it could turn into whatever is to come...  Who knows!

I agree, the best ending for everyone involved is Neymar going to PSG. Actually, I think it could benefical for both sides if they agreed on Verratti-Neymar swap, with PSG returning some money. I doubt PSG would throw Verratti in a deal, but it'd made it easier And if they really want Neymar perhaps they'll have to sacrifice a big name in order not to violate the FFP.

[Carnivore Chris]

This deal shows what a joke Spanish football actually is. It's become horrendously poor and it's a reason why I no longer even care for watching it from a neutral perspective. I only watch Barcelona games and that's it nowadays. The league itself is an utter embarrassment to the sport. It's amateur as fuck.

Now, where I'm coming from is that, even though 200million is a lot of money, the club would not be selling him for that if they were able to dictate the price of the player. Daft clauses kill the Spanish game. How many players are purchased year in year out from this league and the selling club can't do fuck all about it or even attempt to?

 

I hope Neymar goes personally as he's a disloyal, money grabbing twat like 90% of Brazilian footballers, although the club should always be able to dictate the price. That pathetic clause rule is very self destructing for the league as a whole.