Premier League 2023/24 Gameweek 1 - 11-14th August, 2023

[RandoEFC+]

9 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

It's always funny with Man Utd and Liverpool fans because everyone else thinks you both get favoured by the referees, and you lot all think there's a conspiracy in favour of the other club whilst being absolutely adamant that your own club never gets the rub of the green .

There aren't any conspiracies, the referees in England are just shite. And every season there are some clubs who get unlucky more times than others, I don't buy the "evens itself out" argument people try to make. But it's exactly that, just luck.

I would just add to this that there probably is a minor, subconscious sort of intimidation factor which makes referees err on the side of caution a tiny bit more often instead of making calls against the biggest clubs and/or against the home side if it's a marginal call but if it exists for Man Utd then it exists for the others as well.

[Redcanuck]

Fubo TV had Michael Owen and Berbatov talking about the decision and they brought on ex ref Dermot Gallagher, it's probably a Sky feed.  Gallagher seemed to be saying there is a new directive that decisions should be made on the field and not have VAR over turn them.  That VAR will only ask the ref to take a second look if it's a clear and obvious mistake by the official like the red card in the Man City Burnley game. Given the way keepers are protected and the ref was well positioned and had a clear unobstructed view of the incident they were not going to over turn it.  But if the ref had called it a penalty on the field then it would have stood.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Redcanuck

[Stan]

53 minutes ago, Danny said:

Maybe but probably not

Give ref watch a go on SSN, explains the refs views a bit more. I’d say that because hes not punched anyone, they’ll class it as more of a coming together than a foul, as the keeper is expected to be able to come out snd claim it. And whilst there will be a claim for a foul I think theyll also view it as a bit soft.

I do watch that. And it does give more clarity on some decisions. 

But this one tonight was so clear cut. 

If the barometer is 'not punching anyone' then no wonder keepers get away with shit loads

Given that 'coming togethers' happen all over the pitch and outfield players can get punished for it, when it's as obvious as Onana doing that tonight it is just simply a bad decision. 

[Stan]

Pathetic. The apologies continue but we still get absolute howlers. 

 

 

[Danny]

29 minutes ago, Stan said:

I do watch that. And it does give more clarity on some decisions. 

But this one tonight was so clear cut. 

If the barometer is 'not punching anyone' then no wonder keepers get away with shit loads

Given that 'coming togethers' happen all over the pitch and outfield players can get punished for it, when it's as obvious as Onana doing that tonight it is just simply a bad decision. 

I completely agree with you mate, just never know what the difference in opinion between ref and players will be

[patoriku66]

I'm late to this as usual as I'm in the US.

Wolves by far out played United. United just got the typical jammy goal.

I hope for Wolves fans, this gives them some hope. They should have had a draw at least.

Simon Hooper was giving out cars like they were club venue invites.

[Dan+]

That earlier was an absolute disgrace. Actually puts you off the sport. It's such a rig.

[Honey Honey]

Every game should have 3 VAR judges. They vote. If 3-0 decision over turned. If 2-1 against the ref then the ref reviews. If 2-1 in favour of the ref then decision stands. 

Drop the clear and obvious. Relegate refs whose initial judgment is the worst.

 

[Stan]

10 minutes ago, Honey Honey said:

Relegate refs whose initial judgment is the worst.

This is the contentious point for me. 

Drop them so a lower-league club has to suffer from their misjudgments?

I'd prefer they just get better training but dropped from games. Relegate them to a lower division where there's no VAR doesn't really serve any purpose and just punishes the clubs they're overseeing.

11 minutes ago, Honey Honey said:

Every game should have 3 VAR judges. They vote. If 3-0 decision over turned. If 2-1 against the ref then the ref reviews. If 2-1 in favour of the ref then decision stands. 

I do like this though. It sounds too sensible to implement though  

To restrict the amount of stoppages, I'd like to see a 'challenge' system similar to cricket. 2-3 for each team per game.

If the decision is overturned after a challenge, that team keeps their challenge. If the decision stays the same and referee is correct, the team lose their challenge. If it's too difficult to tell (equivalent to an umpires call, but the on-field decision stays the same), then the team keep their challenge. 

Most importantly, we have to be privy to the communications by referees. Let usk now what their decision-making process is and pretty quickly you'll get fans' understanding and probably get fans on board (slightly). 

It still doesn't strike me as 'fair' that commentators can hear the conversations between officials but fans can't. I don't see what the use in that is, because commentators then can't say what the officials have said anyway . 

[RandoEFC+]

Stoppages aren't the problem. One 10 second replay of an incident like that should be enough to flag up a clear and obvious error. They're not arsed about stoppages when they take 2 or 3 full minutes checking offsides. 

[Honey Honey]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

This is the contentious point for me. 

Drop them so a lower-league club has to suffer from their misjudgments?

I'd prefer they just get better training but dropped from games. Relegate them to a lower division where there's no VAR doesn't really serve any purpose and just punishes the clubs they're overseeing.

I understand that but ultimately referees in the lower leagues are worse by virtue of the system. That doesn't necessarily mean their stats on errors is worse though, the game is different between leagues. Different pace. Different pressure.

The better referees are at the top. You should have made it to the Premier League on the basis that the data shows you are better over a certain period of time in each league beloe. Surely you wouldn't make it to this level if you needed to be trained on the existing rules. You should have had enough training by this point. 

If the data shows over a sustained period your numbers drop you need to drop a league to rediscover form or because youre not Premier League level, perhaps you need a time out or less games. I do believe referees will have good and bad days and their judgment will be influenced by external factors in their life and experience, even by their fitness. 

Relegating doesn't necessarily mean you get someone dogshit, it means you get someone who was good enough for that level but not the next or has lost form. Something the data will quickly establish when you start refereeing in the Championship again.

[OrangeKhrush]

it looked like man United players have never played together before, disjointed and scrappy.   The silver lining is 3 points but that type of performance won't encourage anyone

[Stan]

 

 

[Lucas]

2 hours ago, Stan said:

 

 

Just confirms the officials basically bottled awarding a last min penalty at Old Trafford against the home team, and whilst that 'fear' exists in officials, we'll never have a level playing field.

[Rick]

5 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Just confirms the officials basically bottled awarding a last min penalty at Old Trafford against the home team, and whilst that 'fear' exists in officials, we'll never have a level playing field.

Nah, they’ll spend next weekend counting the money from the brown envelopes that slid under their door at half time. 

[Redcanuck]

4 hours ago, Stan said:

 

 

That's the next 10 games without any ref or VAR decisions going United's way.

[Redcanuck]

 

[N U F C]

8 hours ago, Honey Honey said:

Every game should have 3 VAR judges. They vote. If 3-0 decision over turned. If 2-1 against the ref then the ref reviews. If 2-1 in favour of the ref then decision stands. 

Drop the clear and obvious. Relegate refs whose initial judgment is the worst.

 

That’s a great idea but as Stan said far too sensible for them to implement.

It was just scandalous how it wasn’t given. The first week of the season and already the first major fuck-up from the officials

[OrangeKhrush]

i will reiterate what I said in the FA Rule changes thread.  These dipshits can't even get the basics right but they are concerned about managers and assistants in a technical area.

fuck them all